Question on output : amp vs speaker

[dwsievers]

I just received my Firehawk FX today and it seems I'm going to have a lot of fun with it!

 

I so far tested the firehawk with headphones only, but want to get an amp or speaker.

 

Not sure I read things right, but it sounds like if I use a "regular amp" something like a 80-120W Crate amp, that I would have to use the "amp" output mode, and the amp/cabinet modeling would be lost. Is that correct? Or does the amp/cab modeling still take place?

 

If I need a speaker, instead of an amp, could anyone make some recommendations in the $100 level? (Shuriken + Firehawk broke my wallet)

Do I need an XLR input, or is 1/4" input speaker adequate or less expensive maybe?

 

Thank you!

[robertgoddard]

The "Amp" setting on the switch disables any Bluetooth audio going out the 1/4" or XLR outputs.  I also believe that it reduces the audio level to be inline with the output levels of any effects put into the effects loop of your amp.  You can run the output of the Firehawk directly into the Effects Return of your amp (if it has one) and bypass the pre-amp in your amp if you want.  The modelling is still happening in your Firehawk, and you will hear it in your amp.  If your amp doesn't have an Effects Loop, then run it into the instrument input, set all your EQ to 5 (or straight up) on the clean channel.  This should get you a neutral sound from your amp.  The 

To get the most accuracy of what the Firehawk sounds like,  you could get a 1/4" to RCA cable and run it to any stereo receiver with RCA inputs.  Most stereos are full range and will more accurately reproduce the sound/tones the Firehawk makes.   

 

Just to let you know, the sound you hear coming out of your amp, regardless of method of connection, will not sound just like the sound coming out of the outputs of the Firehawk.  For example, If you have your 1/4" out going to an amp (either method of connection) and you hook up XLR to FOH sound (soundboard).  The amp will change your sound, including the speakers, preamp, and power amp.  FOH sound will be model sound only.  Lots of things to consider when hooking up different ways.  

[SteveFrance]

OK,

i've read your post many times to know how to respond and it was a good thing to do so.....

 

There are two  answers the "would" and the "you have to"    ;)

 

I wouldn't recommand an amp if you want to change the modelling of amp with firehawk because even if you have a clean one, the cab will change the color of the modeling whatever the way your inputs....You can eventually do it, it works but.....

 

I've seen that you have a Shuriken, so i think you'll want to play the acoustics and resonators models, there's no other choice than the FRFR speaker !

 

 

[dwsievers]

@Steveclerget

Thanks! FRFR speaker from Line6 is expensive! And I certainly don't need 1000W for a 10' x 10' room.

I'm not sure if the Alto TX8 8" Active Loudspeaker counts as FRFR or not, but 120W and $129 is something I could budget.

I've read "good things" about the Alto TS series.. seems my local Guitar Center carries this in store, so I might have to pack up the rest of my rig and go try it out this weekend.

 

@robertgoddard

this is useful info but a little over my head. Firehawk is the first FX thing I've owned aside from a "grunge pedal" that I've used long long ago. I don't know much about this stuff, but I figure that I want to get "the most" out of the Firehawk that I can... so if I can't find any "cheap" (inexpensive, not junk) speaker I guess I will consider a combo amp with a bypass input like you mentioned.

[Sussexslinger]

On 4/3/2018 at 2:41 PM, Steveclerget said:

OK,

i've read your post many times to know how to respond and it was a good thing to do so.....

 

There are two  answers the "would" and the "you have to"    ;)

 

I wouldn't recommand an amp if you want to change the modelling of amp with firehawk because even if you have a clean one, the cab will change the color of the modeling whatever the way your inputs....You can eventually do it, it works but.....

 

I've seen that you have a Shuriken, so i think you'll want to play the acoustics and resonators models, there's no other choice than the FRFR speaker !

 

 

Has anyone had good results using the Firehawk with an amp (either in the loop, or clean in the front) by selecting "no cab"?

I was thinking of using the effects loop so that for some patches, I could use the my amp's tone and select "no amp" & "no cab". For other tones, I would keep the effects loop switched off, use an amp tone (e.g. Fender amp for country stuff) but still select "no cab". Obviously some EQ-ing would be needed, but I'm hoping it could be a versatile setup.

[robertgoddard]

19 hours ago, Sussexslinger said:

Has anyone had good results using the Firehawk with an amp (either in the loop, or clean in the front) by selecting "no cab"?

I was thinking of using the effects loop so that for some patches, I could use the my amp's tone and select "no amp" & "no cab". For other tones, I would keep the effects loop switched off, use an amp tone (e.g. Fender amp for country stuff) but still select "no cab". Obviously some EQ-ing would be needed, but I'm hoping it could be a versatile setup.

This is essentially using the 4CM (4 Cable Method).  Yeah, it's really easy to do and you can keep your amps sound.  

[SteveFrance]

On 06/04/2018 at 7:18 AM, dwsievers said:

@Steveclerget

Thanks! FRFR speaker from Line6 is expensive! And I certainly don't need 1000W for a 10' x 10' room.

I'm not sure if the Alto TX8 8" Active Loudspeaker counts as FRFR or not, but 120W and $129 is something I could budget.

I've read "good things" about the Alto TS series.. seems my local Guitar Center carries this in store, so I might have to pack up the rest of my rig and go try it out this weekend.

 

 

I agree with you, Line6's speakers are expensive, this is the reason why i haven't bought one !

I couldn't buy all the more expensive devices :)

I've bought a Yamaha DBR10 because i wanted a second input.

Nevertheless, the Alto has a good reputation and have hesitated to try it.

 

The only thing is that you'll have some work to tweak and find the sound you like, because even if you have a FRFR, they don't sound the same, some are more bassy, more precise.....

But whatever you take, you won't have the limitations of an ordinary electric guitar amp.....

[kinglerxt]

How do you like your Yamaha DBR10 with the Firehawk FX?

 

[SteveFrance]

In fact, i've quickly changed the FH for a helix LT after buying the DBR10.

 

I've tried at first a soundbar (an LD system but wasn't convinced for the acoustic part)

The DBR10 is a pretty good speaker, i can really get the sound i want to.

 

The only matter is that my band has other speakers for rehearsals, so i find the good tone at home and i'm unsatisfied with the difference (the volume and the size of the room changes too).

 

I've progressed in how to setup my parameters too (High/low cut, EQ.....), and this has an important incidence on the sound.

[bobirvine]

On 4/6/2018 at 7:33 PM, Sussexslinger said:

Has anyone had good results using the Firehawk with an amp (either in the loop, or clean in the front) by selecting "no cab"?

I was thinking of using the effects loop so that for some patches, I could use the my amp's tone and select "no amp" & "no cab". For other tones, I would keep the effects loop switched off, use an amp tone (e.g. Fender amp for country stuff) but still select "no cab". Obviously some EQ-ing would be needed, but I'm hoping it could be a versatile setup.

 

Yeah, FireHawk direct to amp works fine for me. I'm playing a limited edition Variax connected to the FH as appropriate ( i.e. via Variax connector). I'm using the sounds pretty much as is but have downloaded some and built some from scratch - no problems - although why there is no PC interface beats me. I drive the amp in stereo using the 1/4" outs and output mode set to line. My current amp is a cheap ProSound Stereo 400W amp driving 2 x 200W RMS cabs. There are only volume controls set at approx. 25% - no tone control - that's all done in the FH. So far so good. No drop outs and will ptobably add another stereo amp amd speakers quite soon (which will bring the main outs into play). I use BT for programming only.

 

Edited July 16, 2018 by bobirvine
Contained inappropriate content.

[phil_m]

1 hour ago, bobirvine said:

Go on - I dare you  - tell me my concerns have no merit!!!!!!!! 

 

Your concerns have no merit... I mean, they're oddly conspiratorial. The Helix is Line 6's flagship line, and the Firehawk isn't. It's as simple as that. Whether or not you think new Line 6 tech is cutting edge or not, well, I guess that's up to you. A lot of people are very happy with the Helix now. It's just simply a matter that there's a limited amount of resources to invest in product lines, and any company is going to invest in the lines that have the best ROI. As far as the Helix's capabilities, it simply does much more than any other Line 6 product, and it allow me to do things with my rig that I couldn't easily do otherwise. Not all of those things are important to everyone, for sure.

 

As far as the health of Line 6, from my perspective they seem to be in a much better place than they were pre-Helix. They seem to be reinvigorated, and I think they are more cutting edge now than they've been for a long time.

 

I mean, is the stuff you bought not working or has it failed you in some way?

[robertgoddard]

What?

[bobirvine]

Hi Robert,

 

I've just woken up to your rather open ended question: what? I can't be sure about this, but as I hardly ever post on Line 6 forums, I assume you are referring to the spurious text that has appeared recently on one of your posts. I'm not sure if I caused this but, if so, please accept my sincere apologies. In addition, I have removed the two words and marked the post as modified.

 

[Have since removed posting as it makes no sense - contains quotation only]

 

I don't see any other issues but please contact me if I have misread the situation or can help in some other way.

 

Regards,

 

Robert

Edited July 16, 2018 by bobirvine

[robertgoddard]

bobirvine,

 

Yeah, no worries mate.  
 

I love using my Firehawk because it allows me to have consistent tones no matter where I go.  Usually, I just plug the XLR out into the snake at church.  Another option I use, is plugging into a FRFR speaker setup.  I picked up a small, self powered PA speaker (10" with tweeter) to dial in sounds through, so I can:
1. Play/Play practice at home without headphones
2. Dial in sounds as accurately as they'll be represented through another PA. 

I always tell the the sound person to dial in a flat EQ on my channel.  That way there's no difference between what I have setup and what is coming through the PA.  If the sound person says there's too much of something (bass, middle, or treble) I'll adjust and save it.  That way it's repeatable for the next time.

[MacDoggie]

Hi DW,  I’ve recently been looking for a practice speaker solution to use with my FHFX.  I practice at home in a small bedroom and didn’t want to spend hundreds on a speaker I’d turn up to 2.  After talking to several “experts” (see salesmen) who were always pushing a high priced, and a much larger speaker, I opted for a pair of studio monitors.  They are designed to deliver flat response at room friendly volume, and the FHFX delivers the amp sound to them.  

 

I’m very happy with the results.  No matter what I would have decided, I always would have to tweak settings when I get to my church.  Different room acoustics (very different!) and going through our PA system is impossible to create at home.  The monitors give a representation of what the Firehawk feeds, from there I can work with our sound tech to blend in as best we can.

 

At anywhere from $100-$300, it’s an inexpensive way to get great sound out of your Firehawk. Consider it as an option, you may want more volume or have other desires for your speaker.

 

Best of luck!

[Mike_Day]

Regarding Firehawk FX output modes, I noticed recently that in amp output mode, changes to amps and cabs still effect the tone.

 

Yet, plugged into a PA system in amp mode gets you a fizzy sound like there’s no cabinet emulation. 

 

Why does the sound change when changing cabs in amp output mode if that mode disengages the cab sim?