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Footswitch On vs Off when Toggling Multiple FX


RafterRattler
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Hopefully this question isn't too redundant.  I haven't found a good set of search terms that return anything.   

 

Without using Snapshots, I have several patches where I have footswitches configured to toggle multiple effects - ie: turn some on, and some off with a single press.   While it functions perfectly, the state of the footswitch on/off indicator that gets assigned seems to be rather random - and I haven't figured out how to force it.   For example, suppose I want to bypass one amp and turn on another with one switch, and I want the switch to be bright & the scribble strip solid when I select the second amp.   Is there a way to manually assign it?   I've tried various block assignment procedures - such as making sure the last block I assign to the switch is in the state I want the footswitch to show....but it seems to randomly change on it's own sometimes after the fact.  I'd love to be able to set the default in the same way I can set the default LED color and name.

 

Hopefully that was clear.  Any thoughts? 

Thanks,

RR 

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I think what is happening is that after a firmware update, and the patches are rebuilt, the saved state of a footswitch that controls multiple block bypasses gets confused. I think it gets reset to the first block that it controls. But I’m not sure. The solution is to load your patches, touch the footswitch until the block is selected who’s state you want to reflect the footswitch status, then resave the patch. I thought this was fixed, but I see its till happing in the latest firmware updated.

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Thanks.  Unfortunately that is what I originally tried, but it appears to be hit or miss. It doesn't work reliably, and even when it does, some of them invert again after saving.   I guess I have my answer though - there is no way to force it.  I'll report it as a bug.

 

Thanks for your help!

RR 

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The state of the switch is determined by the state of the "active" effect in that group. Let's say I have one switch that controls both a distortion and a delay. When the distortion is on, I want no delay. When distortion is off, I want delay. Maybe I name this switch "distortion" and so, for me, I want the on state to indicate that distortion is on. If the last of those two effects I edited was the distortion, then it will work as intended. However, if the last one I touched is the delay, then it's going to follow the on/off state of the delay. If you're using touch switches, it's really easy to change. Just keep tapping the switch until the effect you want the switch to follow is active. Otherwise you'll have to navigate around with one of the knobs. Hopefully that made sense. Basically, there is no separate control for what on and off are on a switch, it's controlled by the state of the last effect edited that that switch controls.

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Yeah....that's the assumption I was under, but it doesn't appear to work that way (at least with several diff effects/amps being toggled), and the reason I posted.   The switch states appear to swap randomly after I've saved the patch, and just reassigning the last active effect (the one that reflects the state I want) does nothing.   For the record, I'm on firmware 2.54.

 

RR

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It's always worked fine for me. How are you selecting the effect? The only times I've had issues are after firmware updates. After an update, I have to toggle which is the active effect again. This works as long as that preset is open, but I have to save it if I want it to stay that way. If I don't save, it won't save which was the active effect. Just keep in mind that that is one of the things saved whenever you save a preset. You should notice that as you rotate between effects the state of the switch will change. Just make sure you don't switch to a different effect after and you should be good. Basically, save it and then don't touch anything except the switches :)

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I'm 99% sure I'm doing it right, but I'll try one more time.  I toggle (some to on, some to bypass) up to 7-8 different blocks with one switch, and the switch state doesn't hold, even if I haven't reassigned any switch controllers.    MonkeyXT has been reporting it as an error as well in the bug thread.   

 

RR

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Just to be clear, it's not about toggling the switches. It's about which is the last effect to be visible on the screen. So if you want, say, the distortion's state to match the state of the switch, have the distortion open on the screen.

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If you have multiple blocks turning on/off with a single stomp and one of them is in the opposite state that you intend for it to operate, just go to that effect block and push the "bypass" button then save the preset. Pressing "bypass" will make the state the opposite that it was, but be sure to save the preset. 

 

I use stomps to turn on/off many blocks all the time with no issues. 

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I'll try one more time, then I'm giving up.   I just don't know why I'm apparently being so unclear.

 

The blocks are working as they should.   

The block states are saving as they should. 

When I hit the footswitch, the blocks toggle as they should.

 

It's the STATE OF THE FOOTSWITCH DISPLAY that I'm questioning.    Here's a simple example:

 

- Say I create a patch with two amps - one dirty, one clean. 

- Before assigning ANY footswitches, I bypass clean one, and turn on the dirty one, and I save the patch. 

- I then decide for my footswitch strategy that I want the LED ring to be bright and the scribble strip text solid when the clean amp is selected and the dirty amp is bypassed.   I also want to rename the footswitch to 'CLEAN'.

 

Step 1: I bypass the dirty amp and turn on the clean amp - ie: CLEAN AMP is in the ON STATE.

Step 2: Since I want the LED bright and scribble strip to be solid when I select this state, I first assign the dirty amp to the footswitch.   THEN I assign the clean amp to the footswitch - ie: the last block assigned represents the state I want the footswitch to reflect - ie: LED bright, scribble strip solid.

Step 3: I rename the footswitch to 'CLEAN' in the customize dialog

Step 4: Save the patch.

 

Now I never mess with the footswitch assignments or toggle states again.    I do, however, mess with amp levels, other effect parameters, etc...and resave the patch.   AGAIN, I have not touched the footswitch assignments prior to saving.   Now when I go back to the patch, occasionally the CLEAN footswitch I created will have a bright LED and solid scribble strip text when the dirty amp is selected and the clean amp is bypassed.

 

Changing the states so that the clean amp is on/dirty amp off and then reasigning the clean amp to the footswitch doesn't change the state of the footswitch status display.

 

This is a simple case just for illustration only.  In reality, I will have other blocks toggling like - like volume blocks and modulation.   I am equally careful with their toggle states as well.

 

RR

 

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The order you assign effects to the switch doesn't matter. It's not about which one was the last assigned, it's about which was the last edited. That is, I put whatever I want on the switch in any order, then I select an effect (controlled by the switch) in the effect chain on the display. The state of that effect is now what is reflected by the switch. If I select a different effect, now that effect controls the state of the switch. Hence why I said make sure the effect you want is selected in the display.

 

So, in your case, you specifically said that you mess with amp levels and other effect parameters. That is exactly the sort of thing that will change the state of the switch. You need to make sure that the last thing edited is the one you want the switch to reflect.

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Ok now we're getting somewhere - that could very well be the case.

 

If I understand you correctly, you're saying that whenever I resave a patch, the selected effect on the screen and it's state (on or off) becomes the 'on' state of the footswitch?   Does it only apply to effects assigned to the footswitch or any effect in the patch that may be selected?

 

If I have that right, then I'm glad I reported it as a bug, because unless I'm missing something, it seems like a pretty stupid design decision.

RR

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20 hours ago, RafterRattler said:

Ok now we're getting somewhere - that could very well be the case.

 

If I understand you correctly, you're saying that whenever I resave a patch, the selected effect on the screen and it's state (on or off) becomes the 'on' state of the footswitch?   Does it only apply to effects assigned to the footswitch or any effect in the patch that may be selected?

 

If I have that right, then I'm glad I reported it as a bug, because unless I'm missing something, it seems like a pretty stupid design decision.

RR

 

You don't even have to save it. You can just watch the switch state change as you toggle through the effects in it. But you do want to make sure to save it if you want the state to be correct the next time you open it.

 

I wouldn't really call it a bug since it is working as designed. The issue is that something has to be used to determine the state of the switch. That is, what should the switch look at to determine when the state is changed? So it has to tie itself to something that it controls so that it knows whether it is on or off. By toggling the effects, you can tell it which thing to tie itself to. In your case, you have named the switch "Clean" so you want it to tell you whether your in clean (on) or not (off). So you tie it to the state of your clean amp, which makes perfect sense. Now, where it could be improved would be if they would allow you to LOCK it to the state of that effect/block/parameter so that it can't change when you update other things. In which case, I'd suggest putting in a feature request for just that :)

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Well none of the suggestions or descriptions of how it is supposed to work have panned out.   I just can't force it to the state I want, and it doesn't seem to work as the last few posts have suggested.   I guess if I really want to take this further I'm going to have to take a video of me changing settings to prove it.   If it's me, then maybe you'll be able to tell me what I'm doing wrong.

 

RR

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  • 2 months later...

I have to agree.  This should be something you have control over and it should be obvious how you control it.  Including a manual menu in the controller assigns.  If you go to the command center to control Program Change Toggle CC midi assignments you will see 2 of the control parameters,  Dim Value and Lit Value.  They are defaulted at 0 and 127 respectively but obviously you can turn the knob and make it what ever you want allowing you to reverse it.   They should have similar settings in the bypass functions of the footswitches.  If you have a number of effects in the by pass state and a number in the active state, it should populate the menu with perhaps the first item assigned and then an asterisk to indicate that it's not the only block that is in the active or by passed state.  You really wouldn't even need both you could just have Lit Value.   

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