Helix and MainStage

[volcanotim]

Hi Guys

 

Im having problems using Helix to control MainStage. I have set up Helix to have a preset for each song in my set, I want MainStage to have a playback and metronome click for each preset. I have successfully got Helix and MS synced up so when I change presets it changes patches on MS using an instant command in command centre. I also set up 2 switches on my Helix for each patch, one to turn on the metronome, the other to turn on a playback in MS. That works fine. However when I change presets using the Helix it also immediately fires either the metronome or the playback neither of which I want to happen. Ive tried all sort of combinations in MS but can't seem to stop it happening. Im no expert in midi so maybe my commands are wrong - Im using CC toggle commands for the playback and metronome but have no idea what CC# means so have tried different numbers which does nothing. 

 

Then I read on this forum that when Helix sends PC commands it also send all the other commands as well so Im wondering if this is the issue. Any help on this would be appreciated

[arkieboy]

I'm also using MS with my helix (in a more limited fashion).

MS is a complex beast.  Can you send the PC changes from somewhere else and make sure that this is a Helix problem, not a MS problem?

[volcanotim]

Thanks for answering. I don’t have another device able to send pc commands but I agree it’s hatd to know if it’s a MS or Helix problem. 

 

But I have now managed to link the preset buttons to the patch list in MS. After much fiddling I discovered if you send program change = 2 it will go to patch number 1 in other words you have to add one for some reason. Also if you delete a preset or move it then you have to add 2 because there’s no way to get MS to understand it’s no longer there!? There doesn’t seem to be a way to reset MS somehow

[volcanotim]

So heres what I think is happening. When you send a program command = 0, Mainstage reads it as 1, when Helix sends 1, MS sees it as 2. Then to complicate further if you delete say preset 4 or move it theres a sort of ghost left, so now when you want the fourth preset to tally to MS you have to add 2 rather than 1. So this is going to get really confusing unless you never move a preset ever. Is there some way of resetting the Helix program changes globally?   

[arkieboy]

Welcome to MIDI.  The 'does the synths patches start from zero or one' has been a thing since its inception - MIDI is very specific in that 0x00 (0x = hexadecimal) selects the first patch in the bank and 0xFF (hexadecimal is base 16 remember: A=10 and F =15) selects the last (i.e. 127), but the spec never said if you should present patch 0x00 as 0, 1, 000, 001 or A01 to the user.  Its just something you get used to.

 

What you probably have set is Global Settings->Midi/Tempo->MIDI PC Send/Receive to 'on'.  This will always send the midi programme change (PC) corresponding to the preset number in your helix: So preset 1 will always send MIDI PC 0 to connected devices on the MIDI base channel =regardless of what's in the preset=.  If you copy the =configuration of a preset= out of one preset slot to another location, it won't move the preset number as well because all that setting does is echo out the information about the location of the patch, not its contents.  The advantage is you set it once and it works for all your presets.  

If you turn this off, you can set the PC to send in the Common Centre page which is part of the preset or snapshot and should move when you move the preset/snapshot.  Problem is you have to set it for every preset/snapshot you want to send a MIDI PC from.  Command centre is a little complex, but very powerful - its just the kind of thing you would find in a top notch midi master keyboard.  This is how I send patch changes from my Helix to my VG99 and will send to my Marshall JMP1 when I decide to set it up in 4CM.

 

Hope that made sense

 

 

[volcanotim]

Arkieboy, thanks. I understood a little of what you are saying. I didn't know about the 0-127 or 1-128 midi thing. But Im pleased say I found that you can adjust this in MainStage if you go to MS preferences>midi and change to 0-127. Now everything lines up.

 

In global settings on the HX I had midi pc receive on but midi pc send off. I went through each patch and used command centre to set up a pc command to correspond to the patch on MainStage 

 

From what you are saying it sounds like if I turn midi pc send back on I don't need to do that as it will just correspond to MS by magic....so here goes.

 

Bummer. That didn't do anything. So my questions are:

 

What exactly does PC midi send do?

Do I need to program each preset on the HX to match MainStage ?

And whilst we're at it, what does Duplicate PC send do?

 

oh and one more question

 

I currently have MS and HX set to channel 2 - does that matter? Or should I it set to 1-16 or something else. (I only have the HX connected MS nothing else)

 

Many many thanks

 

[arkieboy]

Have you got an app called midi monitor on your mac?

What does it say about what your Helix is sending?

[volcanotim]

Not sure if this what you after. Theres a thing called midi message monitor on MS. This is a screen shot of what happens when you select one of the presets on HX 

[arkieboy]

Those LSB/MSB things could be confusing things - I'm not sure what MainStage does when receiving them.  I have them set to 'off' and only send a PC message.

When I select patch one in My rig I have it set like this

 

 

So you're sending PC messages on channel 16[patch 37] and 1[patch 28].  What channel was your MainStage listening on again?  For it to change to a patch I think you have to have a MainStage patch set at that patch, so here if I send PC4 then I'll select this patch.

 

 

Although there is something about dragging the patches in order?

For tempo, you can have the Helix send midi clock - if you have the tempo set to per patch/snapshot rather than global it will then send the correct tempo you've tapped into your helix to MS without you having set it up separately I think ...

I'm just getting started with this myself on my Helix - I had a setup for my Axon AX100 Mk2 that worked brilliantly but I've forgotten exactly what I did, and also that was MS1.  MS3 is different

Steve

 

[volcanotim]

Steve 

 

thanks. I’ve actually got it working exactly as you describe but you don’t need to go to the trouble of setting it up in command centre. I have no idea what all those commands are doing but since it works they are best ignored. 

 

So now I can select a patch from the helix and it will open a patch in Mainstage read the tempo and produce a click from the metronome send it back to helix to be routed to my drummer. It works great but it does seem a shame to have to go to this length just to create a click track! I’ll be exploring using loops and samples next to make more use of it

 

tim

[volcanotim]

For anyone whose interested I made a Youtube video of how I set up mainstage and helix to produce a click track