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Only 128 Impulse Response Presets?

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I purchased a 3rd party IR bundle for bass (OwnHammer) Ampeg pack. It came with 335 impulse responses. The Helix only has 128 preset slots available. How can I decide which IRs to use and import?

 

 

 

 

AMPG-BASS.pdf

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You can drag/drop them individually or as a sequential set from a folder on your computer into the IR slots in HX Edit. You are limited to 128 at a time in HX Edit.

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5 hours ago, calelitecoach said:

I purchased a 3rd party IR bundle for bass (OwnHammer) Ampeg pack. It came with 335 impulse responses. The Helix only has 128 preset slots available. How can I decide which IRs to use and import?

 

 

 

 

AMPG-BASS.pdf

 

Just guess randomly...there is exactly one way to tell if you're gonna like any one particular IR: listen to it. You will not find any magical way to determine if you should bother auditioning one vs. another, just based on whatever name the file has been given. Try a handful at a time. Keep what you like and dump the rest. 

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It makes it easier if you have an idea of what type of mic's, mic mixes, and mic placements you prefer.  That allows you to isolate the one's most likely to be close to what you want.  Beyond that I typically reserve the last 10 IR slots for testing out different variations.  Load them in, try them out and compare them.  Generally speaking, out of an entire pack of IRs I'll generally end up with 5 or 6 that tend to fit my needs.  I'll then load those into permanent slots lower in the IR list.

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Nothing from nothing, but audition them.  Do you seriously need more than three or four prime ones?

 

I have a friend of means and he owns thirty to forty high end and boutique amps.  I've seen him use three of them.

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The Ownhammer's usually have a "Quick Start" folder. Per their documentation, they recommend you start there.

 

Personally, I'm a fan of the Rosen Digital IR's. They usually come in sets of 3-6 and I find most of them usable. Unfortunately their documentation doesn't go into great detail regarding specific IRs. I don't really need that info, but my inner "gear-geek" wants to know.

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I have a friend of means and he owns thirty to forty high end and boutique amps.  I've seen him use three of them.

Maybe he should buy a Helix:

Amp overview

Less lugging around...

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For the Ownhammer collections, I go straight to the Quick Start folder and grab the OH1 and OH1F mix files. They nail it for me every time.

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4 hours ago, Verne-Bunsen said:

For the Ownhammer collections, I go straight to the Quick Start folder and grab the OH1 and OH1F mix files. They nail it for me every time.

 

If the new basketweave collection is any indication of what's to come from OwnHammer in the future you may have to expand some of the mixes you might want to use.  The Summary and OTB Sum mixes consist of captures using 8 mics in various cabinet and room configurations.  They are absolutely stunning!!!

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I haven’t picked that one up yet, but it’s on my list. I have to clear some room for it, as my slots are all full... I will check those mixes out, thanks for the tip! 

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IMO - you don't need them all, you need a few.... at most. 

 

If you are new to this, trial run 10 at a time. Pick your favorite and keep it... discard the other 9. 

Add in the next 10 and compare it to the one you kept. Keep the ones you really like... discard the rest.... repeat as necessary.

 

I have a solid understanding of cabinets, speakers, microphones and position. I can safely discard 295 out of 335 before I begin. SURE - there might be a gem in there that I am discarding... but I'd be sure to miss it anyway with that much choice :) 

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This is the reason why i've surrendered with the IR's.

It already needs a lot of time to know how to put the effects in the chain / to tweak the EQ and all that stuffs.....

The amount of possibilies is so more important than the device i had before that i waste more time on the buttons than on playing the instrument.....

 

I consider that factory cabs, well setup, can provide good sounds and offer a lot of possibilities.

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11 minutes ago, Steveclerget said:

This is the reason why i've surrendered with the IR's.

It already needs a lot of time to know how to put the effects in the chain / to tweak the EQ and all that stuffs.....

The amount of possibilies is so more important than the device i had before that i waste more time on the buttons than on playing the instrument.....

 

I consider that factory cabs, well setup, can provide good sounds and offer a lot of possibilities.

 

Yup. The rabbit hole is deep and wide... If you don't keep your distance from the event horizon, there's a good chance you'll have forgotten how to play by the time you dial in a sound you like... lol

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Yeah, I've kind of taken to telling people that if you don't really understand the differences in the mics and how placement can affect the tone, they're better off just using the stock cabs.  Without a certain amount of understanding about what you tend to prefer in terms of mics and mic placements you definitely going to be wandering in the IR wilderness for a while until you figure it out.  Eventually once you figure out those things from the stock cabs it may be worth your time finding IRs that fit your needs as they're very quick and easy to use once you know that stuff.

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I was able to read the description of the IR and choose the best for me. I chose 2 Ampeg SVT 4x10 cabs. 1 with a sub and 1 pretty bright. 

 

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I see the fact that the IR blocks in a presets point to a Helix slot number rather than to a specific IR to be made more problematic by the 128 slot limit. I don't think this issue is unique to the Helix as other modelers use the same approach.  If you replace the IR in one of your IR slots with another one, every preset pointing to the old IR in that slot is updated. Great, except not always, sometimes you only want one specific preset to use the new IR. When that is the case you use a different/new IR slot for that specific preset.  That's all well and good but I find myself having to juggle more and more often as to which of my 128 IR slots, all of which are filled, will become the victim that gets the old IR swapped out and the new one swapped in. This requires going back and potentially reviewing every preset that used the old IR to make sure that it sounds ok with the new one being placed in the old slot. Unfortunately there is no easy way to see a list of which presets correspond to an IR. An IR management tool that allowed you to scroll through your IRs and list the presets used by each one would be really handy. 

 

I suppose even if more IR slots were made available there will be players who will always fill every one of them up. In my particular case and I think many other users as well,, another 128 or more slots available would not only allow me to have a wider selection on "permanent" tap but also allow more "swap" space for trying out new IRs. For me the 128 slot limit means that the longer I have my Helix the more inviolable each IR slot becomes and the fewer I have available to swap in new IRs. This is due to the fact that existing IRs/slots are connected to multiple presets and swapping one out has a higher and higher percentage chance of impacting presets pointing to the old IR that I don't necessarily want pointing to the new IR.

 

One other thought on this subject. An approach that might be interesting with IRs is for you to at least have the option to backup/save a preset with its corresponding IR. That way when the preset is restored you would also have the option to restore it with its original IR rather than the one currently residing in that slot which may be different. Not sure how the restore process would work in this case.

 

Anyway, talk about first world problems. The Helix cabs are great IMHO and the ability to use IRs offers infinite possibilities. I am still advocating though for the option for one or more of the current eight setlists to be designated as an "IR-list" and allowed to be used for IRs instead of presets. I think this would be a great option for users who would be happier with a couple of fewer setlists and a couple of additional IR lists. This solution would have zero impact on users who would like to continue with things just as they are but also accommodate those of us who need additional storage space for IRs. Vote it up here: https://line6.ideascale.com/a/dtd/Add-additional-slots-for-IRs/892101-23508#idea-tab-comments

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On 4/16/2018 at 5:57 AM, klangmaler said:

Maybe he should buy a Helix:

Amp overview

Less lugging around...

 

He's a purest.  He has a hobby where he designs and builds prototype S/B's which he plans to turn to a business someday.  The problem is that he is that Eric Johnson-y type who discerns between 'this much amperage in the LED affects the tone this way' and 'that footswitch creates that much magnetic pull' that way.  He loves my Helix, and he's a quite talented Bluesman/Rocker, but trying to get him to go digital is like trying to teach my mom how to use my iPad.

Here's a couple of pictures of me in one of his studios.  In one snap I'm playing some insanely valuable and vintage Tele, in the other I'm playing a '52 Paul ( looks worn but is the best playing and sounding guitar I've ever held).  You can see my Helix on the floor there and you can sort-of see his pedal board leading to some ungodly array of amps.

15590621_10154863370066591_7313217529903789198_n.jpg

15541499_10154842043376591_7789887076907933101_n.jpg

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2 hours ago, cruisinon2 said:

 

"And I can get the last olive out of a jar with one finger, and leave the pimento behind" - Hawkeye Pierce ...;)

 

For all I know he's the nicest guy in the world, but I have trouble with the "I can tell if there's an Energizer or Duracell 9V in my Tube Screamer, even with 9 other FX pedals running"  proclamations. Just doesn't pass the sniff test, imho.  Maybe it's me... lol

Nope.....

That's me as well.....

 

I kind of have the same thing with a old keyboard buddy of mine.  The nicest guy in the world and an extraordinarily talented keyboard player, studio guy, and live sound guy.  The only problem is, he continues to think that nothing of technical value has been created after 1975.  That includes modelers, solid state amps, electronic drums, powered speakers, class-D amplifiers and digital mixing boards..the list goes on and on.  But course none of that has stopped him from swapping his Hammond B3 in live performances for an electronic keyboard....hmmmmmmm????

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I'm cutting weight wherever I can in my rig. I'm still waiting for someone to develop "quantum" FOH speakers and monitors, just a small field generator to carry. Speaker weight, the final frontier.  :-)

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6 hours ago, cruisinon2 said:

 

"And I can get the last olive out of a jar with one finger, and leave the pimento behind" - Hawkeye Pierce ...;)

 

For all I know he's the nicest guy in the world, but I have trouble with the "I can tell if there's an Energizer or Duracell 9V in my Tube Screamer, even with 9 other FX pedals running"  proclamations. Just doesn't pass the sniff test, imho.  Maybe it's me... lol


He doesn't run batteries and he only runs reverb and drive.  He just has twenty of each to choose from on his board.  Serious.  

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I know...I was tooling you.

 

To tell the truth, I'm not in a position to judge it, and I doubt others are as well.  Let me illustrate my answer for that:

I'm colorblind.  Totally colorblind.  Don't believe the hype, I don't live in a monochromatic world, but I simply don't differentiate any color from the color spectrum if it is placed close to another color.  So if somebody says, "that's a beautiful egg shellblue with a hint of fuchsia", my brain may be screaming 'BS...that sucker is white', but they can see it.  That said, I have witnessed conversations where contemporaries will each identify the 'pull' due to certain conditions of construction, and while it may be present, it is eggshell blue to me.   I will say that I can hear the effect that different woods and finishes have on his custom cabs, but I'm sure most can do that.  <shrug>

 

 

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27 minutes ago, PiFromBRC said:

I know...I was tooling you.

 

To tell the truth, I'm not in a position to judge it, and I doubt others are as well.  Let me illustrate my answer for that:

I'm colorblind.  Totally colorblind.  Don't believe the hype, I don't live in a monochromatic world, but I simply don't differentiate any color from the color spectrum if it is placed close to another color.  So if somebody says, "that's a beautiful egg shellblue with a hint of fuchsia", my brain may be screaming 'BS...that sucker is white', but they can see it.  That said, I have witnessed conversations where contemporaries will each identify the 'pull' due to certain conditions of construction, and while it may be present, it is eggshell blue to me.   I will say that I can hear the effect that different woods and finishes have on his custom cabs, but I'm sure most can do that.  <shrug>

 

 

 

Actually most can tell the difference, but the difference may or may not be due to the woods being used.  It could just as easily be the difference in the physical speaker in the cabinet.  A Celestion Creamback speaker has a completely different response and sound than a Celestion Redback.  And that's why the Helix provides cab models as well as mic models and variations in how those mics are placed on the cab.  The same holds true for IRs.  That's why that market exists, in order to simulate those differences.  A Fender Twin has a considerably different sound from a stock Fender Twin when it's played through a Vox AC15 cabinet, not only because of the cabinet but also because of the speakers being used.  Some, including myself, would say that cabinets and mics are as big a factor in the resulting sound you will get as is the amp and guitar being used.

 

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1 hour ago, cruisinon2 said:

 

OK...let me put it another way. One who can't differentiate a Plexi from a Jazz Chorus, or a Boogie 2x12 from a Marshall 4x12, is deaf. One who THINKS he can hear the difference between brands of 9V batteries shoved in a pedal, or what the amp draw of red vs. blue display LEDs do to some device's tone, is delusional...

 

Again, I'm not going to judge.  It's eggshell blue.  I guess one way to look at it would be to view a sine or do a double blind test, but this guy is a friend, I'm willing to grant the benefit of the doubt, and it doesn't really make a difference to me, because when he launches I'll get some cool pedals to play with. 

 

I don't want to get in to some conversation where a person claims another person doesn't see, hear, feel, or taste something the original person can't.  It's pointless and no matter how strongly you feel about it, somebody else feels just as strongly and with as much conviction, just with a different conclusion.

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2 hours ago, DunedinDragon said:

 

Actually most can tell the difference, but the difference may or may not be due to the woods being used.  It could just as easily be the difference in the physical speaker in the cabinet.  A Celestion Creamback speaker has a completely different response and sound than a Celestion Redback.  And that's why the Helix provides cab models as well as mic models and variations in how those mics are placed on the cab.  The same holds true for IRs.  That's why that market exists, in order to simulate those differences.  A Fender Twin has a considerably different sound from a stock Fender Twin when it's played through a Vox AC15 cabinet, not only because of the cabinet but also because of the speakers being used.  Some, including myself, would say that cabinets and mics are as big a factor in the resulting sound you will get as is the amp and guitar being used.

 

 

He's big on speaker combinations as well.  One room and a hallway right outside that picture are each stacked with different celestions, et al, as well as various electronic engineering things.  And yes, I can hear the difference between the different speaker/cab/finish combos.  There's also the tonal warming or cooling after the cab and speakers have been played through during a long session.

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22 minutes ago, cruisinon2 said:

 

Sorry, but that is nonsense. Assuming that no changes are made to the settings of whatever amp is pumping through a given cabinet, any qualitative changes in tone after a long period of listening, especially at significant volume, is nothing more than ear fatigue. Barring deliberate changes, the cabinet and the listening environment are what they are...it's your perception that's variable, not the gear. We are all susceptible to it. 

 

Dude...maybe you're one of those people that just *knows* he's right all the time.  I've been playing for close to forty years now.  I know all about ear fatigue and I know quite a bit about tonal qualities.  Let's agree to disagree and move on.  Sheesh.

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8 hours ago, PiFromBRC said:

 

Dude...maybe you're one of those people that just *knows* he's right all the time.  I've been playing for close to forty years now.  I know all about ear fatigue and I know quite a bit about tonal qualities.  Let's agree to disagree and move on.  Sheesh.

 

Well around here 40 years or playing is still a kid among us old farts that started our first bands back in the 60's...but the good news is, with the Helix you'll get consistent results from the cabinets and mics, no matter how many hours you play through a virtual 4x12 cabinet with Celestion Greenbacks using a mic mix consisting of R121 and MD421 microphones.  Repeatable, predictable, duplicatable....ahhh...the scientific method at work!!!!  

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Sure is a bunch of philosophical discussions on this forum lately...

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11 hours ago, DunedinDragon said:

 

Well around here 40 years or playing is still a kid among us old farts that started our first bands back in the 60's...but the good news is, with the Helix you'll get consistent results from the cabinets and mics, no matter how many hours you play through a virtual 4x12 cabinet with Celestion Greenbacks using a mic mix consisting of R121 and MD421 microphones.  Repeatable, predictable, duplicatable....ahhh...the scientific method at work!!!!  

Agreed.  Some two years in and still feel like I'm scratching the surface.

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