Not happy with jbl610/helix

[pdavid]

  Newbie here, got my helix lt last week. 

After reading and searching as much as I can on the forum, I’m really having fits dialing in sounds through my jbl eon610.  

Clean patches sound good.   High gain, not so much.  Very shrill.  I even bought the fremen big pack, and even those aren’t close to what I heard on the demo. And yes, I’ve installed the proper IR’s for the patches. Could it be I’m too used to a traditional cab? I’ve been playing 35 years, so I know what I’m looking for tone wise. 

Helix sounds better through my rokit 6 monitors. But not for building patches. Should I ditch the jbl for something more “cab like”? If so, any recommendations? 

Thanks in advance for any input.  

Much appreciated! 

[aaronlyon]

The JBL is like your Rokit monitors: flat response, right? I don't know what all those EQ presets are on the JBL, but make sure it's set flat, just like your home stereo. The patches you build on the Helix should include amp AND cab + microphone models to simulate the whole shebang, just like you'd send to the FOH mixer. Should sound just like a nicely recorded guitar track, and should sit well in the mix.

 

 

[dragonfet]

I've heard a few people on here say that they tamed high gain shrillness by adjusting the High Cut parameter on the IR. Sweep it down until you can hear a difference, then carefully reduce it even further to your liking. Don't forget to change sounds every now and then so your ears can adjust to the changes, especially when they're subtle.

[pdavid]

Thank you guys for the responses.  I’ll work on the IR high cuts. 

[DunedinDragon]

There are a couple of things you have to adjust to when going to a powered loudspeaker like your JBL.  First is to make sure you have the contouring options set correctly for how you have it set up.  If you have is set in a floor monitor position select the Monitor option.  If you have it vertically elevated you're probably best off with it set to Main.  You probably also don't want to engage the EQ+ option as that may affect the contouring in a non-natural fashion.

 

The other thing is to make sure you have ample space between you and the speaker.  Unlike your studio monitors these type of loudspeakers are designed for projection across long distances.  Therefore, up close you don't always get an appropriate blending of the sound between the high and low end drivers.  I keep about 5 feet of distance and will often stand off-axis from the speaker to get a better feel for the actual live sound.

 

Because these are bi-amped systems with an amp dedicated to the lower frequencies in the speaker and a separate amp dedicated to the higher frequencies through the horn you will get a much flatter response on the high end than you would through a normal studio monitor.  In many cases this can be handled by simply changing the cabinet/mic setup or the IR to get a warmer tone with a warmer mic or greater distance from the speaker or out further from the cap of the speaker.  Alternatively you can also adjust the high cut parameter for highs or low cut if it's too boomy.  I sometimes use a combination of tactics.  Usually a combination of mics such as a ribbon mic like an R121 combined with a dynamic mic like an MD421 will give you a nice pleasant blend.  But I often attenuate the high frequencies, but I generally use a Parametric EQ toward the end of my chain to trim the highs as well as any final adjustments to any other areas that are needed.  The reason I use a Parametric EQ rather than the high and low cuts in the cabinet block is the cuts in the Parametric EQ use a steeper slope so I don't have to make such a dramatic cut on the highs.  With this approach my high cuts can range anywhere from 10k down to about 7.5K.

 

Bottom line it does take a bit of adjustment to get what you want from these type of powered loudspeakers, but the good news is your direct signal will end up being a fully production level polished sound through a direct FOH connection, so you won't have to worry about making any adjustments at the mixing board to your channel.  It will match nicely to what you're hearing on stage.  The other big advantage for me is the great articulation and clarity I get on stage in my tones.  A little more work, but well worth it in my opinion.

[ric1966]

Follow DunedinDragon’s excellent advice and keep working on it... the other guitarist in my band and I both use JBL EONs with great results. EONs sound very bright because most of us are used to hearing monitors that roll off the high frequencies. If you want to see how flat the EON’s response is, just check out the curve on JBL’s website. Once you cut some highs, find the right IR or Cab/mic combo and get it dialed in, you will be amazed at how well you can get that studio-polished, cranked up tube amp sound at any volume. It takes a while to get used to FRFR, but you’ll know you are there when you play along with your favorite tunes and your guitar sounds so close to the original recording that it fades into the mix! Well worth the effort.

[jbuhajla]

I use two of them, sound fantastic. You just need to spend some time figuring out what sounds good to you. Helix is capable of getting you there. 

[amsdenj]

I think the best way to get good tone is to focus first on the things that touch the air, in the direction of the signal chain. That means starting with the guitar - getting the strings that sound and feel right, using the right pick (heavier and rounder ends will be warmer), choosing the right pickup and making use of guitar volume and tone controls. The next most important thing is the speaker. Choose the speaker model or IR that is closest to the tone you are looking for. Then fine tune with the mic choice followed by adjusting the mic position. IRs can provide different positions relative to the center of the speaker: cap, cap-edge, cone and cone-edge. The further you get from the center of the speaker, the warmer the tone. Close micing will enhance low end due to proximity effect as well as high end. Putting some distance between the mic and the speaker will be a bit more mid focused and warmer. Then keep your FRFR pretty flat so that your different patches are the primary source of your different tones. FRFR tone control settings that sound good on one patch may not sound good at all on another patch. Its better to get the tone from the models, not the FRFR. Adjusting for different room situations can be done either with global EQ or the FRFR, whichever is most convenient. But I rarely do this as I suspect it might do more harm than good in many situations.

 

Bottom line its hard to use EQ to address tone issues that originate at the guitar, speaker and/or mic. Get the source and destination right, and you will usually find less need to EQ.

 

 

[dragonfet]

5 hours ago, amsdenj said:

Adjusting for different room situations can be done either with global EQ or the FRFR, whichever is most convenient. But I rarely do this as I suspect it might do more harm than good in many situations.

And don't forget to turn the global EQ back off...  I use it at home to limit my neighbours' annoyance by cutting the bass and frequently forget to turn it off again at the bandroom. Then I wonder why I sound so thin.