Best rear inputs to use to connect up a Line 6 G10 on my Helix Rack ?

[MarkeG]

Anyone ?

[Doug6String]

"Best" is a loaded question but I have two of these, one for mag pups and one for piezos to use both at once.  I use the standard 1/4" jack on the front of my rack for mags and for the aux input on the back for piezo.  Is there a reason you're asking about rear inputs vs the obvious one you'd typically use on the front?  I love my G10s!

[MarkeG]

Just wanted to have a cleaner look up front by routing keeping  as many cables around back as possible is all 

Was going to run over to GC and grab the thing in a few and wanted figure out what cable to buy while I'm there 

So whats my rear alternative  ?

 

[dragonfet]

The Aux In seems to be the best option, unless you're going to have a long distance between the G10's receiver and the Helix. The XLR out on the G10 to the Mic In on the Helix could also work, but I wouldn't be sure, most microphone inputs have too much gain and a uselessly high input impedance. Also there's the risk of accidentally outputtibg phantom power, so I recommend the Aux In.

[MarkeG]

Any disadvantage or  difference between the front guitar in and the rear aux ?

[dragonfet]

The Guitar In has adjustable input impedance and defaults to 1 MOhm, the Aux In has a fixed impedance of 10 kOhm. The Aux In would kill the sound of pretty much any passive guitar (and likely many active ones too), so those have to go to the front jack. For wireless, the Aux In is theoretically better suited as the lower impedance allows for a lower noise floor. I haven't measured it yet, but I assume that the practical difference should be almost neglible.

So, guitars must go to the front and wireless receivers should go to the back.

[MarkeG]

You kind of lost me there  your saying  (The Aux In would kill the sound of pretty much any passive guitar (and likely many active ones too), so those have to go to the front jack) So, guitars must go to the front and wireless receivers should go to the back ?

If I'm connecting the G-10 which is a wireless receiver and my my guitar only  to the aux will it still kill my guitar ?

[DunedinDragon]

The G10 1/4" output simulates a guitar input, so if you go to the aux input you'll have a weak signal...and I mean noticeably weak very definitely affecting your tone.  If you want to see the difference, plug your electric guitar into the Aux input and get a feel for what you're losing.

[MarkeG]

Do you mean the Helix  aux 1/4" output simulates a guitar input so if you use  the aux input you'll have a weak signal.?

[dragonfet]

 

7 hours ago, MarkeG said:

You kind of lost me there  your saying  (The Aux In would kill the sound of pretty much any passive guitar (and likely many active ones too), so those have to go to the front jack) So, guitars must go to the front and wireless receivers should go to the back ?

If I'm connecting the G-10 which is a wireless receiver and my my guitar only  to the aux will it still kill my guitar ?

 

Let me expand that:
Guitar -> Guitar In: Good

Guitar -> Aux In: Bad (will sound muffled and lifeless)

Wireless -> Guitar In: Good (in theory with slightly more noise, in practical use probably negligible)

Wireless -> Aux In: Good

 

4 hours ago, DunedinDragon said:

The G10 1/4" output simulates a guitar input, so if you go to the aux input you'll have a weak signal...and I mean noticeably weak very definitely affecting your tone.

The transmitter simulates an amplifier input with a high input impedance and the receiver will output instrument level, but it's output impedance is usually much lower. My Shure GLXD6 has an output impedance of 50 ohms unbalanced, that's many powers of ten away from any guitar.

I tried to find specifications for the G10, but sadly Line6 didn't release any. There is just a "Pilot's Guide" and some sites claim the transmitter to have an input impedance of 1.3 MOhm, but no word about output impedance. But I'd be very surprised if it was higher than 1 kOhm, it wouldn't make any sense for the receiver trying to simulate the same impedance a guitar has since all the other components are missing.

 

4 hours ago, DunedinDragon said:

 If you want to see the difference, plug your electric guitar into the Aux input and get a feel for what you're losing.

Comparison is always a good idea, but it would have to be reproducable. I'll try to get my wireless system from the bandroom today and record a few samples.

[MarkeG]

Thanks for the reply I'm not to knowledgeable when it come to understanding input impedance balanced or unbalanced  Ohm's and how it relates in this particular situation 

But what I think your saying is the  G-10 wireless to Aux is good with slightly less output and noise then the Guitar in but possibly the simulated  amp on the G-10 will make up diffence  and its good idea to just test both and see which i personally like best :) ?

[dragonfet]

I run my wireless into the Aux In and would do the same with the G10, yes. The "simulated input" will not behave differently on the Aux In and Guitar In, but you can of course try both and see if you hear any difference.

[MarkeG]

Good enough I'll give it a try thanks 

[nikl]

Gonna resurrect this, with a slightly different question:

 

I have the new G10S, which also has a DI out. I guess the DI out over XLR should provide the highest quality signal from G10S to Helix Rack. Which input on the Rack should I use? The manual doesn't spell it out - is the AUX in on the Rack a TRS connector? Or is it possible to use the Mic in as a guitar input?

[cruisinon2]

1 hour ago, nikl said:

Gonna resurrect this, with a slightly different question:

 

I have the new G10S, which also has a DI out. I guess the DI out over XLR should provide the highest quality signal from G10S to Helix Rack. Which input on the Rack should I use? The manual doesn't spell it out - is the AUX in on the Rack a TRS connector? Or is it possible to use the Mic in as a guitar input?

 

The ancient discussion above notwithstanding...the wireless is feeding a guitar signal. In a million years, it would never have occurred to me to stick it anywhere but the "guitar in" on Helix...and the mic input is probably expecting a much lower signal level. But if it works, it works. Ymmv...

[nikl]

There is no "Guitar in" on the rear of the Helix Rack, which is the topic of this thread: which input to use on the rear of the device, not on the front of the device.

[cruisinon2]

30 minutes ago, nikl said:

There is no "Guitar in" on the rear of the Helix Rack, which is the topic of this thread: which input to use on the rear of the device, not on the front of the device.

 

I get that. But in the interest of using the one input that we all know is appropriate to the task and eliminating all the guesswork, I'd still use the guitar in regardless...one "messy" cable and all...'cause that's what the signal is.

[zolko60]

26 minutes ago, nikl said:

There is no "Guitar in" on the rear of the Helix Rack, which is the topic of this thread: which input to use on the rear of the device, not on the front of the device.

There is no such a label but electrically wise RETURN inputs set to instrument level are the same as GUITAR input (at 1Mohm) and set to line level same as AUX IN.

[nikl]

Thanks, zolko60.

 

I've been digging through a few other threads here, and it seems that AUX in on the rear of the Helix Rack is the best option as it's closest to line level, and the DI out of the G10S gives line level, anyway, so a converter cable or adaptor from XLR to TRS should do the job.

[zolko60]

There is no specs for G10S. The manual claims there are two outputs:
4. Instrument Output - Connect to the input of a guitar pedal or amplifier.
5. XLR DI Output -Balanced XLR output for connection to a mixing desk, audio interface, powered speaker, or similar with DI level.
As I understand complicated technical terminology "DI Output" means balanced low impedance (200ohm), mic level (about -15dBu nominal) what work best with mic preamps  (balanced, 2kohm input impedance).

[nikl]

I was reading this part "mixing desk, audio interface, powered speaker, or similar" to mean that the XLR out of the G10S is line level, not mic level.

[zolko60]

You may be wrong because "mixing desk, audio interface, powered speaker, or similar" devices are usually equipped with mic pres and "DI Output" originates from DI Box which outputs mic like signal.
I agree that without specs it may look like guessing and experimenting. ;)

[nikl]

The G10S manual is needlessly ambiguous, because audio interfaces typically have both mic and line inputs. On the other hand, I haven't seen a powered speaker that'd expect mic level signals, but line level only. And mixing desks have line inputs, too.

[zolko60]

I have seen a lot of mic pre equipped powered speakers: Alto TS series, QSC K series, Yamaha DXR series to name a few. Some exceptions are rebranded Alto TS sold as Headrush FRFR.
The history of DI is rich and "DI output" term is a part of the proud Sound Reinforcement tradition and corresponding vocabulary. ;)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DI_unit

[nikl]

The Yamaha DXR series has a mic/line switch, actually, and the mic pre part is the builtin mixer of the DXR and not part of the general input of the active monitor. Yamaha's HS active monitor line has no mic pres but accepts line input only (either consumer or pro line levels). That's why I'd not be so sure that the manual is actually refering to mic level instead of line level.

[zolko60]

OK, so you claim

3 hours ago, nikl said:

adaptor from XLR to TRS should do the job.

If this is the case, you do not have any TRS inputs in Helix anyway. Going line level balanced XLR to unbalanced TS line level will cost you 6dB, no unity gain.
Using G10S "Instrument Output" you can expect unity gain at instrument level Hx input/return.

[nikl]

Do you know that AUX in is TS and not TRS, or is it speculation? In a piece of professional gear I'd be assuming that a line-level 1/4" input would be balanced.

[zolko60]

Let me see...
...AUX IN and other inputs still apear to be unbalanced.