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ddmilne

Helix Harsh Tones/ offensive replies

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First, if it takes a rocket scientist to run a multi effects pedal than it has failed its objective. For those of you who think that spoon feeding or codling is the only help you can give, than you really are not helping anyone. IF you have to spend half your life to get a good tone for one song-- what is the point. You dont pay 50,000 for a car or truck to take a college coarse on how to start it up and drive it. 2000.00 is a proce of a near top end amp that you can turn on and tweek with no effort. Line6 , in offering this product needs to do much better to get people to first base based on the scenario of the rig they might be using, or at least be right up front that the only way to use this properly is by buying yet another pieced of equipment in the form of another 1000.0o FRFR. Muscians, not computer and sound engineering geniuses, want to play. They want to easily use a multi effects unit to get to a storable, usable, and recallable preset in a reasonable amount of setup time.  If it is impossible to get to that point than the solution offered by line6 is not practical and way too complicated . My occupation is one of engineering in a controls environment, so I am not without having to learn software and such based systems. Nothing is working, not even through an FRFR at the local music store. In fact the number f product returns is mounting. Now, the fact that some are able to get this thing to a tamed position means that the knowledge is there. So , unless line6 wants to wait for its competition to bury them in this sens, I want to suggest that they start to listen to the hundreds of users complaining all over the internet about the same issue- harshness and unusable amp models. And please, no more helpful suggestions that the hundreds of us need to grow up and expect to spen months, or better yet, to  pay to learn how use a solution on what otherwise is being ushered as the next best thing to sliced bread. 

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The Helix is like anything else. The more you use it, and the more familiar you become with it, the easier you'll find it to use. If you're struggling with tones sounding harsh, I'd say the main questions are what are you playing the Helix through (which is the issue perhaps a majority of the time), and what amp and cab models are you using.

 

You may want to take some time and watch some of Jason Sadite's video here:

 

Beyond that, there are plenty of people who want to help here. But if you come out of the gate with a combative attitude, it's not going get you very far.

 

 

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Just curious about what style tones are the most difficult for you with Helix.  Clean and mid gain tones from Helix were easier for me with just stock cabs.  High gain tones from Helix were much tougher and required me to dig into IR's.

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I am replying to a combative response by some who feel that belittling a person looking for help is a correct response. My research on this topic is more than a few months in the making. I have tried everything all the way to FRFR as I stated. I am goin into the effects return of either a Fender Hot Rod, A Hughes and Kettner Grandmeister, an even direct through the bands pa board. I have turned off the CAbs, Used HIgh Cut and Low Cut, PAD/NO PAD, Line out , Instrument in. Still only limited success

 

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I'd be willing to bet you are doing something wrong, somewhere. Amp master and/or channel volume cranked too high is a common one. I managed to get good, usable tones out of Helix in the space of an afternoon. Really good took a few weeks playing around (mainly with the signal path routing). Just watch a few of the videos phil_m linked. But you need to accept that in all likelihood, the problem is in the way you are approaching your patch creation rather than in Helix itself.

 

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I was able to get some good tones out of amp models that were cleaner in performance like the fener type amps, but medium to high gain amps were discontinous , severely grainy or similar to what happens when a noise gate is set to high. 

 

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47 minutes ago, ddmilne said:

I was able to get some good tones out of amp models that were cleaner in performance like the fener type amps, but medium to high gain amps were discontinous , severely grainy or similar to what happens when a noise gate is set to high. 

 

 

What were your amp master volume and channel volume settings?

 

Also, use a cab model for the time being or everything will sound awful, scratchy and harsh.

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1 minute ago, line6bbd said:

 

What were your amp master volume and channel volume settings?

 

Also, use a cab model for the time being or everything will sound awful, scratchy and harsh.

 

I wouldn't recommend using a cab model while going into a real guitar cab...

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1 minute ago, phil_m said:

I wouldn't recommend using a cab model while going into a real guitar cab...

 

No, I should have written more carefully. The OP says that he's tried FRFR, this would be for that, or headphones assuming decent and studio flat response.

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Just to present an alternate view here. Although going into a guitar cab with a cab block dialed up in the Helix defies conventional wisdom, I still find it works just fine depending on the guitar cab being used and the preset. No cab block dialed up might be a good place to start when using a conventional guitar cab as a monitor but don't hesitate to experiment with combining it with a Helix cab. It can sound great under the right conditions, provide sonic flexibility, and give your guitar cab a completely different feel and sound that is closer to the amp/cab you may be trying to emulate.  I do find an FRFR as you would anticipate is more accurate when it comes to emulating a wide variety of cabs.

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In comparing the Helix to a $50k vehicle: I bought a new vehicle last year, and did not reference the manual once. It is still wrapped in plastic in the glove box. I did not have to look to see how to start it or to check the oil, or to fill it with fuel because I have been doing those things for 30 years with other and more simple vehicles. Doing those things are just kind of "intuitive" because of my experience level. Same thing holds true for Helix in my case. I've looked up something I needed to know maybe 6 times in almost 2 years on the Helix. I already know what some of my favorite amps do when you turn up the master. I already know what some of my favorite overdrives will do in front of a variety of amps. I already am familiar with the spectrum of frequencies in guitar signals and equalization. I have experience in gain staging for "optimal" performance to my ears. 

 

Should Line 6 documentation be better? Perhaps. However in the case of modeling, you can't necessarily document what makes is sound "good" because that is subjective. But...I digress.

 

 

Very general starter tips:

 

Helix with a "real amp", connected to the front of the amp: effects only. No amp models or preamp models. 

 

Helix with a "real amp", connected 4 cable method: make sure your send/return block is in the correct spot for what you are trying to achieve, use preamp models when you "real amp" preamp is bypassed. 

 

Helix with FRFR, use full amp models and cab models, or IRs in the place of the cab model. The sound will vary quite a bit depending on what FRFR you are playing through. Drop in an amp model and a cab model that you have experience with the real version. Play around with that a bit, then expand on that. 

 

 

 

You will have to be a lot more specific with what issues you are experiencing and maybe even post some pics of your presets. 

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If you have not gotten 'any' usable tones out of it...

 

I would start with something that will install some confidence that it can be done:  Headphones. It takes all the other factors out of play.  Get some decent headphones, plug them in, start a new preset, slap an Amp/Cab block in there only....and see how the stock settings sound.  They should sound decent to begin with. 

 

Maybe take something mid gainish or clean first.  If you can get something useable here...then its not the guitar/Helix....its everything afterwards in the chain.  I would then once that is useable, I would remove the Amp/Cab block and separate them to make sure you can achieve the same tones, just by splitting the blocks out. 

 

If you can do that, then you would only need to bypass the cab block and maybe change the output routing to send that same signal to the FX Loop in on whatever amp your using....

 

That should help troubleshoot where the issues are coming in.   My fave amps to go to stock are the JC120, Brit 2204 (line6's version towards the end of the list) and also the Trainwreck/Placator models.  That should give you a variety of amp sounds to try out.

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No one has picked up on the "discontinous" comment! not sure what is meant by that?

 

ddmilne, dispite what many trolly comments have said, if you take a brand new helix out of the box, plug it into something vaguly hifi and pull up any of the basic factory amp patches (the ones named after the amp) then you will get a very good representation of what that actual amp would sound like (if miced up and played through the same speaker).

 

I made my own usable patches within 10 minutes of turning this on for the fisrt time.  Yes, the ones I make now sound "better" but in every case and through multiple speaker systems the Helix sounds as good as the majority of players rigs..

 

I say this to support the earlier comment that there must be something fundamentally wrong

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15 hours ago, ddmilne said:

I was able to get some good tones out of amp models that were cleaner in performance like the fener type amps, but medium to high gain amps were discontinous , severely grainy or similar to what happens when a noise gate is set to high. 

 

 

I appreciate that sometimes it can be hard to get good tones. I am having problems myself which are in other threads. But you have to decide whether your goal is to complain, or to get help.

 

If your goal is to get help, I suggest you (a) post your Helix chain, and (b) post audio samples. That way, people can give you specific advice.

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Dude, thousands of people get very very usable tones out of the helix, me included, so you either have a faulty unit or its user error. There IS a learning curve, because its a complex product. But if you think that Line6 is gonna be overtaken by competition because the helix is so hard to use, im sorry, but ill have to dissapoint you. Out of the comparable products (Axe Fx2, AX8 and Kemper), the Helix is BY FAR the most user friendly in every way.

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On 4/23/2018 at 12:32 PM, ddmilne said:

First, if it takes a rocket scientist to run a multi effects pedal than it has failed its objective. For those of you who think that spoon feeding or codling is the only help you can give, than you really are not helping anyone. IF you have to spend half your life to get a good tone for one song-- what is the point. You dont pay 50,000 for a car or truck to take a college coarse on how to start it up and drive it. 2000.00 is a proce of a near top end amp that you can turn on and tweek with no effort. Line6 , in offering this product needs to do much better to get people to first base based on the scenario of the rig they might be using, or at least be right up front that the only way to use this properly is by buying yet another pieced of equipment in the form of another 1000.0o FRFR. Muscians, not computer and sound engineering geniuses, want to play. They want to easily use a multi effects unit to get to a storable, usable, and recallable preset in a reasonable amount of setup time.  If it is impossible to get to that point than the solution offered by line6 is not practical and way too complicated . My occupation is one of engineering in a controls environment, so I am not without having to learn software and such based systems. Nothing is working, not even through an FRFR at the local music store. In fact the number f product returns is mounting. Now, the fact that some are able to get this thing to a tamed position means that the knowledge is there. So , unless line6 wants to wait for its competition to bury them in this sens, I want to suggest that they start to listen to the hundreds of users complaining all over the internet about the same issue- harshness and unusable amp models. And please, no more helpful suggestions that the hundreds of us need to grow up and expect to spen months, or better yet, to  pay to learn how use a solution on what otherwise is being ushered as the next best thing to sliced bread. 

Please post a preset you are having a particularly hard time with, and describe the playback system you want to use with it (FRFR, real amp, etc.). Someone will help you with it.

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On 4/23/2018 at 12:55 PM, ddmilne said:

I am replying to a combative response by some who feel that belittling a person looking for help is a correct response. My research on this topic is more than a few months in the making. I have tried everything all the way to FRFR as I stated. I am goin into the effects return of either a Fender Hot Rod, A Hughes and Kettner Grandmeister, an even direct through the bands pa board. I have turned off the CAbs, Used HIgh Cut and Low Cut, PAD/NO PAD, Line out , Instrument in. Still only limited success

 

I dont have a problem with the amp models.  I feel the same as you but it is 100% related to helix cabs. I do not even have a single preset out of more than 100 where i can appreciate the tones im getting from helix cabs. No warmth and brittle, harsh highs is the common denominator. With IRs i feel different mostly but then im alway reaching for the cone edge files, which are darker, as opposed to the more neutral sounding files, which supports your opinion.

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24 minutes ago, willjrock said:

With IRs i feel different mostly but then im alway reaching for the cone edge files, which are darker, as opposed to the more neutral sounding files, which supports your opinion.

 

This is very common. Sound tech's (live and studio) rarely mic the center of a cone, it's far to bright and unnatural sounding. The mic is almost always somewhere between 1/2 cone and cone edge. If you are using stock cabinets you need to work with the cabinet "hi cut" and mic placement/distance to get the most out of them. 

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I can appreciate where you're coming from.  I'm not a professional musician, but I play at home every single day and love the guitar more than anything else I've ever done.  I've been using a Boss GT unit for years and started seeing Helix discussions pop up everywhere.  I assumed I was missing something amazing and thought it was time to step out of the old Boss technology and get current.  My mistake was I viewed this as an upgraded plug and play unit like the Boss.  This is most definitely not a plug and play multi-effects pedal.  This thing is like a candy addict at Willy Wonka.  There is so much at your fingertips that you don't know where to start.  I mostly play high gain and so far every high gain I've tried (factory presets, downloaded patches, my own created patches) all sound like garbage on the same equipment that sounds amazing with my Boss.  My playing has suffered in the last few months because I spend most of my time chasing a decent sound instead of playing.  

I'm giving up trying to make this sound good through my Marshall 1960 cab and I'm about to buy either the L2T or PA speakers to see if I can have success with those.  I'm not frustrated with the Helix.  I LOVE having a piece of equipment that's beyond my abilities.  It keeps things interesting.  The Boss was getting quite boring.  I'm positive Helix is capable of sounding far better than the Boss, or it wouldn't be so popular.  I just don't know that I'm ever going to be able to devote enough time to it to make that a reality.  Companies like Boss have professionals devoted to creating patches and Helix has given us that same power with infinite possibilities.  As amazing as that is, I'm not likely to create sounds piddling around at home that will compare to what the professionals are able to do at this, or other, companies.  Hopefully new speakers will get me headed in the right direction; otherwise I'm just going to have to admit that I'm not a professional and I should probably stick to using things the pro's create instead of pretending I'm capable of competing with their knowledge and skills.   

 

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In fact "mastering" (big word) the helix also depends on your "gear background". 

 

Personnally i went the FR/FR way a long time ago (first with a VG8/88/99/GR55 until i bought an Axe FX II just before the Helix). If you have followed this path, it's easier to quickly find good tones IMHO.

 

4CM, 7CM are possible of course but let's not lie : it's probably better and easier to model the whole chain directly than to rely on a single cab (with cables everywhere). For example Greenbacks are obviously great speakers but maybe not the real best choice if you're planning hi gain. 

 

The Axe is a wonderful piece of gear but was a tweaking rabbit hole. In comparison Helix concentrates on fewer amps/fewer parameters and is easier to dial, especially if you've got a few IRs. This is an important matter : i don't mean Helix cabs are crappy, they are just harder to dial in a really good way (you need to find the right mics, the right distance,...). Using an IR is easier and not really expensive for a quick result. You just need to load the IR and adjust Lo and Hi cut (100 and 5000 is ok for 99% of the cases). Note : IRs can be a rabbit hole too, so it's better to stick on a few choices (i actually use 3Sigma, because they are sounding good and you only have a limited choice. Believe me, you don't really need 100 different mixes for your cab, especially if the plan is to dial quickly).

 

So for a quickstart "good tone" i'd suggest :

 

- FRFR

- A few IRs (One good Greenback for Marshall, one good V30 for heavier stuff, alnico if you plan to use the Ac30 and so on...) with basic lo and hi cut.

 

That's it !  

 

Then you can dig deeper. For example :

 

- I like (my taste) to put a Tube screamer with 0 gain before the amp. The color of the sound is different and really interesting.

- You can watch the (great) Jason Sadites serie to learn a lot about Helix and sound tips. These videos are truly wonderful. you'll learn a lot of things even if you don't use all of them. His "light compressor at the end of the chain" trick is a great idea.

 

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I have run my helix through FRFR systems (I have a stereo pair of the EV ZLX series speakers), direct into ProTools, and through a variety of tube amps including Blackstar Series One, Egnater Vengeance, H&K Grandmeister, Blackstar HT-5, Peavey Classic 30, Fender Twin Reverb, Marshall JVM Series, Vox AC15, etc etc.....

 

I think the longest it has taken me to set up a good usable tone was about 2 minutes through any of them. That's not all the final tweaking, but a good basic tone with a couple of effects.

 

I invariably run all of the tube amps in a 4CM (or in stereo with 7CM + midi cable for the Series One). It just works better and offers a ton of flexibility. My main stage rig is the helix and the Blackstar Series One EL34104 for most of my tones running stereo outputs into the returns of the Blackstar and Egnater Vengeance amps into a stereo Vengeance cab so I have EL34 tone on one side and 6L6 on the other. I have tones using the Blackstar's 4 preamp channels and tones using the Helix preamps (and full amps minus cabs).

 

I also do the same with my Bass rig running into a Mesa Prodigy. In this case I only use effects including disortion (mostly the Minotaur and the Darkglass modeler, but some modulation effects occasionally). I don't generally use the bass models into the Mesa amp, but I do for FRFR.

 

All of this is stupid simple to set up. Maybe it's me because I'm a gear head and I know how to set up a proper signal path, but as a gigging musician, shouldn't you know how to do that? Helix or no helix, you should probably know which effects go where in your chain.

 

So when I see people here stating that they can't get a good sound out of their helix, I can only think of a few potential problems.

 

1. They have it set up wrong (this is the most common, whether it is their connections or their signal chain). So ask questions and show examples of what you are doing. There are a TON of helpful people on here willing to give you the benefit of their experience, but they are not psychic. Show them what you have set up and what you are hearing.

2. They have a faulty unit (have seen that on here a couple of times).

3. Their definition of "good tone" is different than 95% of the rest of the world (seen that too). Again, post examples. People here will tell you if you are crazy or not. :D

4. They are "purists" trolling here to make themselves feel better about something.(we've all seen that too).

 

Bottom line, this is NOT a hard unit to program or use. If you can dial in an amp or effects pedal, you can dial in the Helix. In fact it is a ton easier to use than the large pedalboards I used to use or even the TC G-System I used before getting the Helix. And you can get great tones from it if you know what you are doing. Way better than the earlier Pod stuff or the Boss/Digitech/etc modelers.

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I'm seriously dumbfounded to hear people say they struggle to get "usable tone" after spending hours with the Helix. I'm trying to be kind and not sound belittling, but what JuggHaid said is exactly right, I can start with an empty preset and get a pleasing tone in just about any style I want in under 2 minutes. Maybe 4 minutes max for high-gain sounds because you might have to fiddle just a bit to get rid of some low-end woofiness or angry-wasp-in-a-tin-can edge--its just the nature of that type of sound.

 

And I can do better than that. I guarantee I can get a tone I would be comfortable playing in front of a medium-sized crowd in a pinch in maybe 30 seconds. Suppose I stupidly let a drummer touch my Helix just before a set and he accidentally wipes all my presets. After five seconds of hyperventilating, I'd spend 2 seconds picking a position in the signal chain, 5 seconds opening an Amp+Cab block, 5 seconds scrolling to an amp I think fits the bill, 3 seconds playing a couple notes to see if the gain needs to go up or down, 3 more seconds making that adjustment, and I'd have 7 seconds to spare to adjust the master volume knob to the appropriate level. That wouldn't be a "perfect" tone, but it fits my definition of "usable."

 

(And this did sort of happen to me once. I showed up an hour before a set to find that I had accidentally erased the preset I had been building for that specific occasion, which was Christmas music in a large ensemble with a choir, including a solo at one point and a mix of clean, crunch, high-gain, and modulated tones throughout the set. After the hyperventilation, I rebuilt a whole new preset from scratch, including snapshots and MIDI instructions to external pedals, in five or ten minutes. It wasn't perfect, and I had to do some tweaking on the fly and ride the volume pedal quite a bit, but i played the set without incident and even got some compliments afterward.)

 

Now, if one says it takes a long time to get perfect tone, then I'll agree to an extent. But, taking it to a car analogy I believe OP used in this or another recent post, while I could attain a usable proficiency driving my brother's 2007 Ford Festiva by spending 30 seconds adjusting the seats and finding the a/c switch, I couldn't learn to drive a Porsche 911 perfectly even if I had weeks of instruction from a professional stunt driver. With Helix, the biggest problem with perfecting a preset is the overwhelming number of options, parameters, and effects you have to choose from. You end up going from good tone to different good tone most of the time. You know there's that one magical parameter adjustment somewhere in there that will transform your clumsy Lil' Wayne one-finger soloing into an identical reproduction of Jimi Hendrix's Little Wing solo, but you can't quite find it. But it is hardly a criticism of Line 6 that they made the Helix with so many good options, I can't stop myself from trying new ideas and playing with settings. Because, by the way, I was doing that back when all I had was a tube screamer and a 15 watt practice amp.

 

So, I would suggest this as the most straightforward troubleshooting method for the usable tone issue. Open a blank preset and load up an amp+cab block, play a few notes, try the next amp model, and repeat until you find a promising tone, and then make slight adjustments to the drive, bass, mid, or treble knobs as your ear tells you. If you can't get an even usable tone after 10 minutes of that, then either your Helix, guitar, cable, or amp are broken, or you have a global setting wrong.

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Here’s an idea,  go to the Line6 Homepage and find the “Events” Tab, there are learning events listed and may have one near you. 

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Weird, I turned mine on, grabbed and OD model, noise gate, amp model, cab model, turned the EQ dials to where I liked them, and had a totally usable practice/recording tone through my headphones and my studio monitors. Took that tone to rehearsal, tweaked it for higher volume, added my FX, assigned my footswitches, and have barely tweaked it since. This thing certainly does not require any engineering degree to operate and works much quicker IMO as far as getting everything set-up and assigned than any other modeler I've tried. If it's not working for you, buy something else. Line 6 doesn't owe you a personally satisfying experience when MOST users are enjoying the device. The whiners are always the loudest, though.

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On 4/23/2018 at 10:32 AM, ddmilne said:

First, if it takes a rocket scientist to run a multi effects pedal than it has failed its objective. For those of you who think that spoon feeding or codling is the only help you can give, than you really are not helping anyone. IF you have to spend half your life to get a good tone for one song-- what is the point. You dont pay 50,000 for a car or truck to take a college coarse on how to start it up and drive it. 2000.00 is a proce of a near top end amp that you can turn on and tweek with no effort. Line6 , in offering this product needs to do much better to get people to first base based on the scenario of the rig they might be using, or at least be right up front that the only way to use this properly is by buying yet another pieced of equipment in the form of another 1000.0o FRFR. Muscians, not computer and sound engineering geniuses, want to play. They want to easily use a multi effects unit to get to a storable, usable, and recallable preset in a reasonable amount of setup time.  If it is impossible to get to that point than the solution offered by line6 is not practical and way too complicated . My occupation is one of engineering in a controls environment, so I am not without having to learn software and such based systems. Nothing is working, not even through an FRFR at the local music store. In fact the number f product returns is mounting. Now, the fact that some are able to get this thing to a tamed position means that the knowledge is there. So , unless line6 wants to wait for its competition to bury them in this sens, I want to suggest that they start to listen to the hundreds of users complaining all over the internet about the same issue- harshness and unusable amp models. And please, no more helpful suggestions that the hundreds of us need to grow up and expect to spen months, or better yet, to  pay to learn how use a solution on what otherwise is being ushered as the next best thing to sliced bread. 

 

I am confused on why you think it takes a rocket scientist to operate this device.  I found it quite user friendly and very easy to understand.  User manuals online and this forum help a bunch as well.  

 

You don't need an FRFR speaker - the Helix preamps sound great through a tube amplifier power section.  I use my Helix set up as a conventional pedalboard for my Mesa TC-100, but then have several presets with the preamp only/fx loop engaged.  I can get any preamp sound through the Mesa tube power section or use the Mesa preamp section.  It's fantastic!!  

 

You should know that a $2000 plus amp will require tweaking.  Just go on the Boogie forum and browse under the Mark V section for a while.  

 

Line 6 does get EVERY player to first base with the Helix - as there are 2 WHOLE SET LISTS OF FACTORY PRESETS (including templates) to start with.  

 

Perhaps you can let us know how the competition (Headrush and Fractal AX8) stands against the Helix?  

 

I would really like to read about a comparison based upon your experiences with the Helix.  

 

 

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Pretty much everyone has agreed the OP is a troll .... check out his many threads. Thankfully, in his last thread  he said he is selling his Helix and won't be back.

 

We hope...

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Had many multi effects units that didn't take half the time to get a decent sound. The truth i'm finding out with the Helix is that there are to many perimeters which makes it very hard to set patches at roughly the same volumes and it just sounds fake. I play in a covers band and its dam near impossible to set my patches at home and then take to practice expecting it to be  near enough, I think I've bored my band mates to death trying to set a few patches. Yes I've tried FRFR, 4CM etc   to be honest it sounds better the 4cm method to me but have come to the conclusion its my actual tube amp that makes it  sounds good (H&K).  I think i'll be sticking to my JHS AT pedal, Wampler Tweed 57 (Front of amp)  and Neunaber reverb and a zoom g5 (delay,modulation etc) in my amp loop. 

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Do these L6 forums have a policy about starting new accounts with new handles for the sole purpose to troll the forums? It doesn't take much effort to figure out that "northerntwang" is "ddmilne".  

 

 

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Sorry to disappoint codamedia  I don't know ddmilne but agree with him/her  I'm a genuine Helix user. Why is it when someone doesn't get on with the Helix they are not genuine. I get it, a lot of people like the Helix and I have no problem with that, I spent good money  trying to get on with the Helix  but  my experience is that it just doesn't work for me. I've spent days and days to try and make it sound as good as my original set up  but it doesn't quite get there and  when I plug in to the Helix it sounds compressed  before  doing  any programming sorry to upset anyone. My biggest gripe with the Helix is it takes to long to programme compared to what I  originally use, it doesn't sound bad when at home but if you're in a band its just not that easy to get the right mix. I wish I could get it to where I want it functionally it would make life easier, I've not totally given up yet but its where I'm at now. 

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Sometimes it could be revealing to take a look at those 'registered instruments'...

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49 minutes ago, northerntwang said:

I don't know ddmilne but agree with him/her  I'm a genuine Helix user. Why is it when someone doesn't get on with the Helix they are not genuine.

 

If you are not, then I apologize. 

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1 hour ago, northerntwang said:

Sorry to disappoint codamedia  I don't know ddmilne but agree with him/her  I'm a genuine Helix user. Why is it when someone doesn't get on with the Helix they are not genuine. I get it, a lot of people like the Helix and I have no problem with that, I spent good money  trying to get on with the Helix  but  my experience is that it just doesn't work for me. I've spent days and days to try and make it sound as good as my original set up  but it doesn't quite get there and  when I plug in to the Helix it sounds compressed  before  doing  any programming sorry to upset anyone. My biggest gripe with the Helix is it takes to long to programme compared to what I  originally use, it doesn't sound bad when at home but if you're in a band its just not that easy to get the right mix. I wish I could get it to where I want it functionally it would make life easier, I've not totally given up yet but its where I'm at now. 

 

Some people simply don't connect with modelers and you may be one of them.  They are a different breed of equipment and far closer to a studio setup than a live stage setup.  Not that it can't be used live, but the manner in which you approach is will be closer to the considerations you apply in a studio environment.  If that's not natural to you, it may not be something you want to spend the time getting familiar with and just go the path of least resistance.

 

I would say also, however, in my experience it's been worth it.  Not so much to achieve the sounds I had in my old setup, but to achieve sounds well beyond what I've had in the past.  But that's because I made a total commitment to it, sold off old equipment (amps and effects) and went to a configuration of equipment that allowed me to take full advantage of the modeling environment.  I currently own no amps, no effects, but I do have 5 Yamaha DXR12's and 1 EV ZLX-12P, as well as two Yamaha HS-7 studio monitors as well as some higher end studio level headsets.  Is it that same sound as I had with my previous traditional amps?  No...but it is the same sound my audience has been hearing when I played through my traditional amps once they had been mic'd and sent to the FOH.  And it was that understanding that moved me into approaching modeling in a new and more effective way and getting way more out of it than I'd ever gotten from my traditional setups.  I came to terms with the fact that for 4 decades the sound I was so pleased with on stage was NOT the sound my audience had been hearing, so I concentrated on building patches that have more in common with studio setups than live setups.  In my traditional live setups I had never used compressors, or Parametric EQs, or layered/sidechained effects and sidechained EQs, or multiple mic and multiple cabinet arrangements.  In my modeling setup they are pretty much constants in every patch I play through.  What I have now is studio quality sound in my live performances which is the same for me on stage as it is for my audience, which was unachievable with my traditional equipment.

 

This new paradigm is something worth considering I think if you're willing to take that step.

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On 4/24/2018 at 5:54 AM, gorkyporky said:

Dude, thousands of people get very very usable tones out of the helix, me included, so you either have a faulty unit or its user error. There IS a learning curve, because its a complex product. But if you think that Line6 is gonna be overtaken by competition because the helix is so hard to use, im sorry, but ill have to dissapoint you. Out of the comparable products (Axe Fx2, AX8 and Kemper), the Helix is BY FAR the most user friendly in every way.

 

I'll agree 100% here...  Not hating on the OP at all...  Respectfully, I have owned them all, at one time for a few even...

Axe FX II XL+, Axe AX8, Kemper, Helix.  I would give Kemper 2nd position on ease of use.  Can't speak for Axe III (and yes, I'll be trying one, but not selling my

Helix floor and Helix LT).

 

I've owned a crap ton of great tube amps, crappy ones, pedals, digital all-in-one's/modelers...  I get compliments on my tone all the time, from other guitarists and musicians.

I've listened to old and new recordings, both multi-track and with high dollar cameras over the years.  I have the best overall tone I've ever had for a show.

 

Don't get me wrong, I like the Fractal and Kemper stuff, not to mention other brands, but Helix has been great.  The more they add amp models and the more I play with it,

the more I realize how much in that box I haven't really tapped in to yet.  Probably because I haven't been dissatisfied with my presets I'm using to take the time to rebuild

them and play that much lately.  That's scary for me, because I'm usually tweaking and adding stuff more.  Speaks volumes for the Helix, though.

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3 hours ago, codamedia said:

 

If you are not, then I apologize. 

Its ok I'm not here cause any trouble I just wanted to see what response I would get to my post, I understand the Helix is a in depth piece of gear and I'm now realising its going to take more time and effort to store the patches I require. :-)

 

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3 hours ago, glideman said:

 

I'll agree 100% here...  Not hating on the OP at all...  Respectfully, I have owned them all, at one time for a few even...

Axe FX II XL+, Axe AX8, Kemper, Helix.  I would give Kemper 2nd position on ease of use.  Can't speak for Axe III (and yes, I'll be trying one, but not selling my

Helix floor and Helix LT).

 

I've owned a crap ton of great tube amps, crappy ones, pedals, digital all-in-one's/modelers...  I get compliments on my tone all the time, from other guitarists and musicians.

I've listened to old and new recordings, both multi-track and with high dollar cameras over the years.  I have the best overall tone I've ever had for a show.

 

Don't get me wrong, I like the Fractal and Kemper stuff, not to mention other brands, but Helix has been great.  The more they add amp models and the more I play with it,

the more I realize how much in that box I haven't really tapped in to yet.  Probably because I haven't been dissatisfied with my presets I'm using to take the time to rebuild

them and play that much lately.  That's scary for me, because I'm usually tweaking and adding stuff more.  Speaks volumes for the Helix, though.

Interesting you put the Kemper 2nd I've never owned one but only hear great things about them. I'll have to keep  trying with the Helix.

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3 hours ago, DunedinDragon said:

 

Some people simply don't connect with modelers and you may be one of them.  They are a different breed of equipment and far closer to a studio setup than a live stage setup.  Not that it can't be used live, but the manner in which you approach is will be closer to the considerations you apply in a studio environment.  If that's not natural to you, it may not be something you want to spend the time getting familiar with and just go the path of least resistance.

 

I would say also, however, in my experience it's been worth it.  Not so much to achieve the sounds I had in my old setup, but to achieve sounds well beyond what I've had in the past.  But that's because I made a total commitment to it, sold off old equipment (amps and effects) and went to a configuration of equipment that allowed me to take full advantage of the modeling environment.  I currently own no amps, no effects, but I do have 5 Yamaha DXR12's and 1 EV ZLX-12P, as well as two Yamaha HS-7 studio monitors as well as some higher end studio level headsets.  Is it that same sound as I had with my previous traditional amps?  No...but it is the same sound my audience has been hearing when I played through my traditional amps once they had been mic'd and sent to the FOH.  And it was that understanding that moved me into approaching modeling in a new and more effective way and getting way more out of it than I'd ever gotten from my traditional setups.  I came to terms with the fact that for 4 decades the sound I was so pleased with on stage was NOT the sound my audience had been hearing, so I concentrated on building patches that have more in common with studio setups than live setups.  In my traditional live setups I had never used compressors, or Parametric EQs, or layered/sidechained effects and sidechained EQs, or multiple mic and multiple cabinet arrangements.  In my modeling setup they are pretty much constants in every patch I play through.  What I have now is studio quality sound in my live performances which is the same for me on stage as it is for my audience, which was unachievable with my traditional equipment.

 

This new paradigm is something worth considering I think if you're willing to take that step.

Yes its stories like yours that inspired me to buy an Helix in the first place and where you are is exactly where I want to be. The problem I'm finding is that there's so many options with the Helix it takes longer to find the right path (I think that's my problem).lol I think its going to take me along time before I'm confident in using this live. Also going off on a tangent what option is there if I want a talk box fx, I need it for one song only and you sound a lot more advanced with the Helix may be you know. Regards

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28 minutes ago, northerntwang said:

Yes its stories like yours that inspired me to buy an Helix in the first place and where you are is exactly where I want to be. The problem I'm finding is that there's so many options with the Helix it takes longer to find the right path (I think that's my problem).lol I think its going to take me along time before I'm confident in using this live. Also going off on a tangent what option is there if I want a talk box fx, I need it for one song only and you sound a lot more advanced with the Helix may be you know. Regards

 

I understand completely.  The Helix is versatile enough that you can take a number of different approaches to it, each with it's own individual set of things to consider.  I think that's why I chose to simply go direct into a full range setup.  It also helped that I had already had a significant amount of time working both as a live sound man and in studios so I had a base of knowledge to build from.  You may be more comfortable with a more intermediate step, but as long as you ask clear questions and give specifics about how you have things setup and configured, you'll get very good advice here from people that have done similar things.  The biggest impediment is when people come on here and say "my tone sounds like crap", but don't provide any specific information about the specifics of their setup and how they have things laid out in their signal chain.  Without that specific information it's very hard to provide help sometimes.

 

What I would suggest is start simple and work up.  Get the basics working which is just an amp, cabinet, mic (or IR) and maybe a simple effect or two.  There's a lot to learn just in getting a simple thing working right for you.  Then build off of that.  I wouldn't get too involved in things like talk boxes and such until you're confident with your ability to put together a decent tone and understand what you're doing with that.  I HIGHLY recommend going through Jason Sadite's videos on building great tone on YouTube.  There's a lot of really great info there.

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9 hours ago, northerntwang said:

Sorry to disappoint codamedia  I don't know ddmilne but agree with him/her  I'm a genuine Helix user. Why is it when someone doesn't get on with the Helix they are not genuine. I get it, a lot of people like the Helix and I have no problem with that, I spent good money  trying to get on with the Helix  but  my experience is that it just doesn't work for me. I've spent days and days to try and make it sound as good as my original set up  but it doesn't quite get there and  when I plug in to the Helix it sounds compressed  before  doing  any programming sorry to upset anyone. My biggest gripe with the Helix is it takes to long to programme compared to what I  originally use, it doesn't sound bad when at home but if you're in a band its just not that easy to get the right mix. I wish I could get it to where I want it functionally it would make life easier, I've not totally given up yet but its where I'm at now. 

I think the main reason people suspect you're not genuine is the fact you don't respond to the best invitation to help you:

Post your signal path and some sound files. This way people can hear what's going on and give you meaningful advice.

There have been some really bad trolls in the past and people have become a bit suspicious because of them.

 

If you really want help, give the people offering their help something to work with.

Or at least tell them why you can't or won't.

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13 hours ago, talwilkins said:

I think the main reason people suspect you're not genuine is the fact you don't respond to the best invitation to help you:

Post your signal path and some sound files. This way people can hear what's going on and give you meaningful advice.

There have been some really bad trolls in the past and people have become a bit suspicious because of them.

 

If you really want help, give the people offering their help something to work with.

Or at least tell them why you can't or won't.

Ok understand where you're coming from and appreciate any help I'm in my dinner break so I'll make it quick sorry in advance for any errors. I wanted to work through my Helix and make a list of issues and come back to you guys  but of the top of my head issues I'm coming across are a lot of the  amp model volumes seem to be too quiet compared to others. I realise different amps will have different volumes but it doesn't make it easy  when creating 30+ patches and switching patches and realise its a problem with every fx unit I know but I find this more of a problem with the Helix. I have a great sounding Wampler Tweed 57 I've been trying to get a similar sound but don't seem to be able to dial a natural sounding crunch, I may be picky here because Wampler  is an  awesome pedals and love the 57 pedal. I could use it in a send and return loop but I think it defeats having a multi effect unit. My biggest problem is I need to work along side with the rest of the band to sort out a lot of my issues, they've have been patient up to now  but are loosing the will to carry on.  I have done half the work but not quite there yet, don't get me wrong some patches are good but its taking a lot more time to sort than anticipated and that's probably my fault I've heard so many reviews saying how easy it is and it is to create a patch but if I want 30 patches at the same volume and quality its not. When I get chance I'll post some patches I'm sure you guys would be able to give me some advise in to improving them but moving house at the moment so not that easy at the moment.  Regards

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