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This is a shout out to Line6 concerning the Helix. You did a great job in setting up the interface so that it could useful and intuitive with scribble strips and tons of other ground breaking options. But, it is clear from the thousands of complaints about "apparent digital clipping", "fizziness", bright pick attack, which are all elements of the same problem, that fixes need to be forthcoming. I would like to stay with and buy outright the Helix if these things are fixed. Presently, I have one that is being rented to me so that I can see if it is going to work for me before I put out 2000.00 dollars. Now I know some of you on the forum see this as complaining , but I just spent almost 60 Hours over the past week and a half learning how to get near good tones without getting there. I did everything that was recommended and followed the most popular experts on youtube. Still the problem is there. LINE6 Please, look at this issue and see if improvements can be made. Regards

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Dude, this is like your sixth thread on this topic... People have been trying to help you, and you generally have not been responding to their comments. There are not "thousands of complaints". There are thousands of happy users, I'm sure. Continually spamming the board isn't going to change anything. If you literally put 60 hours into it, and aren't getting anywhere, I think it's safe to assume that something is either wrong with your setup or even perhaps the Helix you're using.

 

If you really want solutions, you need to give more details about how you're using the Helix, what sounds you're hoping to get, and what guitar(s) you're using. People are more than willing to help.

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Agreed.  I'm getting more and more skeptical of this guy who's appears to be obsessed with this problem, but doesn't follow up on any advise given him.  It's pretty clear he WANTS the Helix to fail in spite of the fact that THOUSANDS of us are getting exactly the results we hoped for.

 

I will say there is a third option beyond something wrong with his setup or problems with the unit itself, which is that working with high end advanced modelers may well be beyond his abilities.  After all, he started off by insinuating we must all be engineers in order to have gotten the results we're getting.....

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"Regards."

 

Hey, at least they gave their regards, right?

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Yes it is the sixth time I used this forum. I have tried low/HIgh Cut and Everything EQ. I have used evey guita impedance, Guitar Pad, master volume, you name it. And overall there has been improvement, but nothing that I would use in a live setting. In fact, it is painfull to the ears after a while. It takes place in the form a a repeatable fizziness to overdrive an distortion sounds that gets worse with OD and DIST effects added in. I also found that effects placement has a dramatic effect on sound quality.  When this all started I could use any amp+cab functions. Some of the suggestions have resulted in that not being the case anymore. I dont know who does or doesnt work for Line6 on this forum. But this isnt going to be something that can be solved altogether by tweeking this or that parameter. It is a firmware issue line6 needs to solve. There are pages and pages of the same complaint on the internet. I would like, hope, to see that Line 6 is working on the problem. So far, I cant get an answer from them even after submitting a ticket. Enough said. If there is a method to resolving this intellegently I am all ears and would be extremely happy to follow it. Like I said, it is almost there, but I cant get rod of it altogether and it is annoying. I imagine as annoying as my posts are to some of you. And to those who have made good suggestions, references to videos. I sincerely appreciated you taking the time to try and help me out.

 

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This is an honest question, meant in the most sincere way possible: If the problem you describe is a firmware issue affecting every Helix then how can one explain the hours of video tutorials and sound samples which do not match your description?

 

Regards!

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57 minutes ago, ddmilne said:

Yes it is the sixth time I used this forum. I have tried low/HIgh Cut and Everything EQ. I have used evey guita impedance, Guitar Pad, master volume, you name it. And overall there has been improvement, but nothing that I would use in a live setting. In fact, it is painfull to the ears after a while. It takes place in the form a a repeatable fizziness to overdrive an distortion sounds that gets worse with OD and DIST effects added in. I also found that effects placement has a dramatic effect on sound quality.  When this all started I could use any amp+cab functions. Some of the suggestions have resulted in that not being the case anymore. I dont know who does or doesnt work for Line6 on this forum. But this isnt going to be something that can be solved altogether by tweeking this or that parameter. It is a firmware issue line6 needs to solve. There are pages and pages of the same complaint on the internet. I would like, hope, to see that Line 6 is working on the problem. So far, I cant get an answer from them even after submitting a ticket. Enough said. If there is a method to resolving this intellegently I am all ears and would be extremely happy to follow it. Like I said, it is almost there, but I cant get rod of it altogether and it is annoying. I imagine as annoying as my posts are to some of you. And to those who have made good suggestions, references to videos. I sincerely appreciated you taking the time to try and help me out.

 

 

"There are pages and pages of the same complaint on the internet. I would like, hope, to see that Line 6 is working on the problem."

 

Where are you finding these pages and pages....there are also pages and pages of people who are more than satisfied with the unit. 

 

I'll ask this, is it possible your just an idiot? and should be playing through some sort of Fischer-Price guitar for ages 2+ or that maybe your Helix is broken in someway that it is not working correctly? 

 

Its pretty plug and play...and again as stated in one of your other threads...if you can't get a decent sound, guitar>HELIX>Headphones, then there are other problems than the 'software' and I don't think its Line 6's problem to fix with coding and formulas for the sounds inside the toolbox. 

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And still not one single actual patch in detail.

 

Trolling IMO.

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10 minutes ago, themetallikid said:

I'll ask this, is it possible your just an idiot?

 

Go easy... some trolls love to get people banned for stuff like this.

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"Presently, I have one that is being rented to me so that I can see if it is going to work for me before I put out 2000.00 dollars."

 

If I was you (and you're not actually an idiot troll), I'd return that RENTED Helix and RENT something else.

 

This is NOT a problem with Helix, it's just simply that YOU DON'T LIKE IT! Some people like Strats, some like Les Pauls. Different strokes.

 

No point you having a stroke over it. Just move on! 

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1 hour ago, j_hotch said:

 

Go easy... some trolls love to get people banned for stuff like this.

 

 

Fair....just saying, if all of the people have offered help on this topic, and your still complaining....I think my statement stands.  I get that its harsh, but the tools/help on this forum are high in volume and that doesn't even bring youtube, if you can't find something useable with all the help here....maybe the issues are elsewhere.

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Hi @ddmilne I see you also opened up a ticket two days ago with the same concern.  Can you upload one of the presets you're describing that you don't like, let me know what you're plugging into and we'll set it up here.  That way we can let you know if it's a subjective thing or not.

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20 hours ago, ddmilne said:

Yes it is the sixth time I used this forum. I have tried low/HIgh Cut and Everything EQ. I have used evey guita impedance, Guitar Pad, master volume, you name it. And overall there has been improvement, but nothing that I would use in a live setting. In fact, it is painfull to the ears after a while. It takes place in the form a a repeatable fizziness to overdrive an distortion sounds that gets worse with OD and DIST effects added in. I also found that effects placement has a dramatic effect on sound quality.  When this all started I could use any amp+cab functions. Some of the suggestions have resulted in that not being the case anymore. I dont know who does or doesnt work for Line6 on this forum. But this isnt going to be something that can be solved altogether by tweeking this or that parameter. It is a firmware issue line6 needs to solve. There are pages and pages of the same complaint on the internet. I would like, hope, to see that Line 6 is working on the problem. So far, I cant get an answer from them even after submitting a ticket. Enough said. If there is a method to resolving this intellegently I am all ears and would be extremely happy to follow it. Like I said, it is almost there, but I cant get rod of it altogether and it is annoying. I imagine as annoying as my posts are to some of you. And to those who have made good suggestions, references to videos. I sincerely appreciated you taking the time to try and help me out.

 

How about some parameter values that you used so we know what you were actually trying? Yes, a distortion/OD placement location in the signal chain changes the way the OD sounds. That is true in the "analog" world as well. Are you playing in a band setting or just at home? What are you monitoring through? You still haven't answered basic questions to be able to get any type of help at all. 

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it's always easy to cry "troll", "idiot" or "learn to use it" if somebody has a problem. Me too, i found lot of posts and threads here and elsewhere complaining about fizz and harshness. Perhaps not thousands, but a lot. And there are a lot of discussions why the modeled cabs sound like they sound. Why the use of the Highpass is recommended in every second thread here if there would be no fizz. I learned a bit to handle it but i never really understood why to need a highpass when using a modelled cab with a modelled mic.

Some people seem to ignore this fact for any reason and that's not more serious then complaing by opening a dozen of threads or not delivering detailed informations.

 

But i guess, some samples would be really helpful.

 

Perhaps it's not everybodies problem because perhaps not all Helixes are exactly the seme like they should, specially in the digital world: My box had the effect in an earlier software version, that it seemed sometimes to loose the cab. I switched from one preset (sound ok) to another preset and back and suddently it sounded like an amp without cab and mix sim. Restarting the unit solved the problem. And 'til today, it does'nt appear again in later software versions.

So if my Helix can do such things, others can do perhaps too and - more nasty - perhaps they can do even different mistakes.

 

So the thinking "If i can't reproduce the problem, nobody can have it" is perhaps thinking a bit too short - even in the digital world.

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If you have a 3rd party IR in your chain, some of them can be very bright. As previously mentioned, you can apply hi/low cuts, and/or additional EQ, but you're stuck with whatever mic they used... and a bright mic is a bright mic. Perhaps trying one the stock cabs, along with one of the mic models that are known to sound a bit darker,  such as  the ribbon mics, may help eliminate some of the harshness you're hearing.

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I've become fond of the ribbon mics because they do offer a more rounded sound in general, and then pairing them up in a dual cab with something to add the right amount of top end to the sound (this however is dependent on the amp model).  For the ribbons, I find myself with the 161 a lot of times, it seems to have more 'punch' to the sound, but if I need some more 'boom' I'll go to the 4038(?) model

 

 

 

Edit* -  I do still add a low/hi cut eq at the beginning starting at 150hz to fix flubbyness and a parametric EQ at the end of the chain with starting cuts around 120hz/5.5khz....this really gives me a good starting point and if I can't get the sound using the amp controls then I'll go to adjust the Pre EQ or the Post EQ depending on what affect I want.

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Unless / until the OP stops launching thread after thread and posts a detailed description of a specific patch it's a waste of time. In case the OP is unclear, then something like this:

 

[Make of guitar and pickup used, if known]

 

Hx settings example - *exactly* as the patch is ordered:

 

[input: guitar; gate off; guitar in-Z auto]

[Path A: pedal(s) with all settings listed; amp with all settings listed, EQ(s) with all settings listed]

[output: Path 2 A: pan centre; level 0dB]


Etc.

 

Or post the patch to customtone and link to it in the comment. Whatever is easiest.

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45 minutes ago, themetallikid said:

I've become fond of the ribbon mics because they do offer a more rounded sound in general, and then pairing them up in a dual cab with something to add the right amount of top end to the sound (this however is dependent on the amp model).  For the ribbons, I find myself with the 161 a lot of times, it seems to have more 'punch' to the sound, but if I need some more 'boom' I'll go to the 4038(?) model

 

 

 

Edit* -  I do still add a low/hi cut eq at the beginning starting at 150hz to fix flubbyness and a parametric EQ at the end of the chain with starting cuts around 120hz/5.5khz....this really gives me a good starting point and if I can't get the sound using the amp controls then I'll go to adjust the Pre EQ or the Post EQ depending on what affect I want.

 

This kind of helps make the OP's point. Why all of this complex EQing, just to get a simple rock'n'roll sound? At home, when I want to just plug in and play, I fire up S-Gear. Almost any of the factory presets are inspiring, whether thru my studio monitors or FRFR speakers, and other than the actual amp tone stacks, there aren't any EQs! Unfortunately, taking a computer to the local beer joint is not something I care to do, which is why I have the Helix. Between GD and Fremen I've got a lot of useful presets, and JS has some great ideas for creating good sounding presets from scratch. It could be that L6 needs to have a look at what S-Gear and the aforementioned after market and YouTube guys are doing and figure out how to create basic presets that sound good without requiring a degree in sound engineering and/or endless hours of tweaking. It's nice that Helix allows a dedicated sound designer to make presets that sound exactly like any artist or any song, but the large number of complaints similar to OP's indicates that there's a lot of users who just want to plug in, twiddle a coupla knobs and rock out!

 

THAT SAID - 

 

43 minutes ago, line6bbd said:

Unless / until the OP stops launching thread after thread and posts a detailed description of a specific patch it's a waste of time. In case the OP is unclear, then something like this:

 

[Make of guitar and pickup used, if known]

 

Hx settings example - *exactly* as the patch is ordered:

 

[input: guitar; gate off; guitar in-Z auto]

[Path A: pedal(s) with all settings listed; amp with all settings listed, EQ(s) with all settings listed]

[output: Path 2 A: pan centre; level 0dB]


Etc.

 

Or post the patch to customtone and link to it in the comment. Whatever is easiest.

 

OP's failure to cooperate with all the people here that have tried to help him is what's causing some of us to start thinking that he's an idiot troll.

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4 minutes ago, rd2rk said:

This kind of helps make the OP's point. Why all of this complex EQing, just to get a simple rock'n'roll sound? At home, when I want to just plug in and play, I fire up S-Gear. Almost any of the factory presets are inspiring, whether thru my studio monitors or FRFR speakers, and other than the actual amp tone stacks, there aren't any EQs! Unfortunately, taking a computer to the local beer joint is not something I care to do, which is why I have the Helix. Between GD and Fremen I've got a lot of useful presets, and JS has some great ideas for creating good sounding presets from scratch. It could be that L6 needs to have a look at what S-Gear and the aforementioned after market and YouTube guys are doing and figure out how to create basic presets that sound good without requiring a degree in sound engineering and/or endless hours of tweaking. It's nice that Helix allows a dedicated sound designer to make presets that sound exactly like any artist or any song, but the large number of complaints similar to OP's indicates that there's a lot of users who just want to plug in, twiddle a coupla knobs and rock out!

 

Well, I think the main issue is he's plugging the Helix into the effects returns of a couple amps. He mentioned in one of his other threads and in a PM to me. So when you're doing that, that's using an amplification system that's inherently limited.

 

I actually think there are some of the factory presets that are OK. I can use them without much editing at all. Everyone has a different idea of what sounds awesome. I have S-Gear, and I don't think most of the presets are awesome. There are some that are OK. There aren't any that I think I would just use in an actual recording without editing, though.

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3 minutes ago, phil_m said:

 

Well, I think the main issue is he's plugging the Helix into the effects returns of a couple amps. He mentioned in one of his other threads and in a PM to me. So when you're doing that, that's using an amplification system that's inherently limited.

 

I actually think there are some of the factory presets that are OK. I can use them without much editing at all. Everyone has a different idea of what sounds awesome. I have S-Gear, and I don't think most of the presets are awesome. There are some that are OK. There aren't any that I think I would just use in an actual recording without editing, though.

 

Like I said, he needs to cooperate with you and all the others who are trying to help him.

 

As for S-Gear, you're a professional sound designer! I wouldn't expect you to think anybody's presets are totally awesome! The point I was making is that the S-Gear presets are inspiring without requiring a huge amount of tweaking to make them minimally useful. And the tweaks provided are intuitive to anyone who's ever used an amp - bass, mid, treble, presence. Switches to shift the tonal centers for the tone stack. There's some "deep" parameters for tweakers, and a 5 band EQ on one amp for the "Boogie" type sounds. All of which and more are in the Helix. Yet, I can throw together a simple and good enough for r'n'r preset in S-Gear in a few minutes that might take hours (or days, considering the ear fatigue factor) with Helix. Sure, once I've got it in Helix there's snapshots and a million effects that make the Helix such a great performance tool, but the learning curve is steep. OP might have a point that making it simpler to get the basics by engineering out the widely complained about "FIZZ" factor (not present in S-Gear) might add appeal to a larger market who just want to plug in and go! Is there ever such a thing as too big of a market?

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1 hour ago, rd2rk said:

 

This kind of helps make the OP's point. Why all of this complex EQing, just to get a simple rock'n'roll sound? At home, when I want to just plug in and play, I fire up S-Gear. Almost any of the factory presets are inspiring, whether thru my studio monitors or FRFR speakers, and other than the actual amp tone stacks, there aren't any EQs! Unfortunately, taking a computer to the local beer joint is not something I care to do, which is why I have the Helix. Between GD and Fremen I've got a lot of useful presets, and JS has some great ideas for creating good sounding presets from scratch. It could be that L6 needs to have a look at what S-Gear and the aforementioned after market and YouTube guys are doing and figure out how to create basic presets that sound good without requiring a degree in sound engineering and/or endless hours of tweaking. It's nice that Helix allows a dedicated sound designer to make presets that sound exactly like any artist or any song, but the large number of complaints similar to OP's indicates that there's a lot of users who just want to plug in, twiddle a coupla knobs and rock out!

 

A bit more than a year ago I bought the Helix and thought the sound sucked and I didn't like a single factory preset.  Been playing more than 50 years and using modelers since the first POD so I had some experience.  I came to this forum for help and "discovered" fizz.  Between previous posts and answers to a few specific questions, I went from hearing junk to loving the Helix almost over night.  It was not hard once I understood the Helix just a little bit and now I don't even use the often suggested high and low cuts (I do use EQ).  L6 could include a sheet (READ ME FIRST) that addresses a couple of the typical newbie complaints, like fizz and how to get a good starter tone, to get customers off to a good start.  But it is inconceivable to me that anyone cannot get an excellent tone if they follow the basic suggestions everyone here has, assuming they have a good enough guitar, pups, headphones, etc., and they are not trying to copy someone else's tone (can be done but obviously harder for a newbie).  And I'm NOT accusing anyone, but if one's playing sucks, the Helix ain't gonna fix that (insert smiley face since I couldn't)!

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6 minutes ago, Doug6String said:

A bit more than a year ago I bought the Helix and thought the sound sucked and I didn't like a single factory preset.  Been playing more than 50 years and using modelers since the first POD so I had some experience.  I came to this forum for help and "discovered" fizz.  Between previous posts and answers to a few specific questions, I went from hearing junk to loving the Helix almost over night.  It was not hard once I understood the Helix just a little bit and now I don't even use the often suggested high and low cuts (I do use EQ).  L6 could include a sheet (READ ME FIRST) that addresses a couple of the typical newbie complaints, like fizz and how to get a good starter tone, to get customers off to a good start.  But it is inconceivable to me that anyone cannot get an excellent tone if they follow the basic suggestions everyone here has, assuming they have a good enough guitar, pups, headphones, etc., and they are not trying to copy someone else's tone (can be done but obviously harder for a newbie).  And I'm NOT accusing anyone, but if one's playing sucks, the Helix ain't gonna fix that (insert smiley face since I couldn't)!

 

+1 on the "READ ME FIRST" idea (Idiot's Guide to Basic Tone Design"). Still, the "FIZZ" (in some quarters known as "That L6 Sound"), would better be removed than providing another cheat sheet that nobody will read. How about a new effect called "FIZZ KILLER"? (insert tongue-in-cheek emoticon. Hey, what happened to the emoticons? How can we possibly be expected to communicate digitally without emoticons?)

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On 4/25/2018 at 12:02 PM, ddmilne said:

I just spent almost 60 Hours over the past week and a half learning how to get near good tones without getting there.

 

The hours spent learning the Helix must be offset with your knowledge of the amps and pedals within the Helix. 60 hours is not a bad amount of time to learn how to work the device, but navigating the Helix is just the beginning! If you don't know how the amps, pedals, mics and speakers that are emulated work you really have just scratched the surface of time required.

 

The Helix is dozens of amps and more than 100 effects. If you rented that much diverse gear from a music store do you think 60 hours would be sufficient time to really figure it out? 

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Helix and S-Gear are very different things, even if you focus on only amp and cab models. Helix mostly attempts to emulate existing amplifiers. S-Gear is certainly inspired by the knowledge gained over many years of amp development and tube characteristics, but is more focused on building modern amplifiers in the digital domain.

 

However, if you compare some of the newer Helix models like Litigator and Carteographer, and use similar IRs, you’ll get tones that are more similar between the two. 

 

The other difference is who’s listening to and evaluating the models. Mike Scuffham does indeed seem to have unique ears. Ben Adrien is also starting to show his capabilities, and his models in Helix seem to show a lot of promise. I hope to see more of these in the future. Its wonderful to see that these two designers can do, and we are indeed fortunate to be able to enjoy their products. 

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59 minutes ago, amsdenj said:

Helix and S-Gear are very different things, even if you focus on only amp and cab models. Helix mostly attempts to emulate existing amplifiers. S-Gear is certainly inspired by the knowledge gained over many years of amp development and tube characteristics, but is more focused on building modern amplifiers in the digital domain.

 

However, if you compare some of the newer Helix models like Litigator and Carteographer, and use similar IRs, you’ll get tones that are more similar between the two. 

 

The other difference is who’s listening to and evaluating the models. Mike Scuffham does indeed seem to have unique ears. Ben Adrien is also starting to show his capabilities, and his models in Helix seem to show a lot of promise. I hope to see more of these in the future. Its wonderful to see that these two designers can do, and we are indeed fortunate to be able to enjoy their products. 

 

Indeed, different animals. My only purpose in comparing them was to point out that THE FIZZ in the Helix that so many complain about is not a necessary component of amps modeled in the digital realm. For me, it's the sort of thing that tends to disappear in a mix, live or recorded. It's just SO annoying when I'm sitting around noodling by myself, which is mostly what I do these days on guitar. BUT...I just got a call from someone I haven't played with in years, looking for a bass player for some loosey-goosey jamming! I'm excited! I'll get a chance to see how the Helix bass amps sound through my new Headrush 112 in a live setting! OH BOY!!!

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8 hours ago, codamedia said:

 

The hours spent learning the Helix must be offset with your knowledge of the amps and pedals within the Helix. 60 hours is not a bad amount of time to learn how to work the device, but navigating the Helix is just the beginning! If you don't know how the amps, pedals, mics and speakers that are emulated work you really have just scratched the surface of time required.

 

The Helix is dozens of amps and more than 100 effects. If you rented that much diverse gear from a music store do you think 60 hours would be sufficient time to really figure it out? 

i agree that perfect handling of the Helix has to be learned like it has to be learned to get ones personal perfect tone out of all these originals.

The difference is: If i plug my guitar in a real amp, i usually get instantly a tone with less fizz than what comes out with the factory presets. Perhaps not a god tone, but with a little bit tweaking on the tone stack, it will be mostly OK to start. Try this with a simple amp+cab in the Helix. To my ears, it's not really the same. and i think that's what many people complain.

I know it depends on the chain, but even with a pretty linear speaker without peaks in the upper mids/hights, fizz is there when overdrive/distortion is dialed in.

In know that Helix is moddeling not the amp in the room but a miced amp. But really - did you ever mic an amp and have this fizz? OK - if you  place the mic directly in the speakers center beam - in this case you have to use filters and equalizers to get a good tone.  Perhaps, that's the point.

 

Possible solutions:

- the proposed "idiots guide" (i'll buy two :) )

- Different mic angles, not only distance, as i think line 6 is modelling pretty on axis for what reason ever (perhaps cause its tecnically better to cut something wich is to much than boosting something that is to less. If i record a conventional guitar speaker at the center, i get fizz too.

- i like rd2rk's idea of a virtual "Fizz killer pedal". Could be a good and intuitive thing to start and should be not too difficult to implement.

- accepting that nearly every day someone is complaining 'bout fizz - with a certain reason

 

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If L6 would simply implement tools similar to a cablab, it would A) make Helix a better and more realistic sounding product, especially in the area of the signal chain that is the most important to the tones in modeling B) allow to you make the sound as dark as you want and kill all the fizz with something other than a lowpass filter.

 

Just do it L6. You want modeling that is realistic, but its not very realistic to mic a guitar cab and NOT have control of some of these very important parameters, if not the MOST important. Including but definitely not limited to deep phase editing and left right placement.

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 One thing you should consider is the guitar pickups. I have two guitars, one sounds very harsh and crappy and the other on the same preset sounds completely warm and freaking amazing.

If you use a guitar with a bright thin sound it can be hard to dial in a nice tone. Try the Helix with different guitars. If I had tried the Helix with  bright thin sounding guitar I probably would have formed a negative opinion about the Helix. The pickups are the first thing in the chain.  In no way is the Helix crap and if you don't like it buy something else and get some guitar playing back into your life.

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On 4/19/2018 at 8:25 AM, ddmilne said:

It is really time for Line6 to put out an optimization manual  that helps anyone using any rig to avoid getting anything but the best sounds out of the Helix. I have been trying to use Combo amp front end and effects returns and havent been able to reproduce any soudn shown on demos. This is keeping me and others from buying a helix because we want proof that the sounds are achievable. 1399 to 2000 dollars is a lot to spend to haev pay restocking fees because you cant  stand how it sound. Many buyers claim they are the bext thing since slice bread. Help us get there and save some customers. Other competitors like headrush are as bad, Boss Gt1000 stilll hasnt resolved the process sound issue and isnt as flexible as the helix. So help us out. All I get on the blogs are vague answers.

 

On 5/20/2016 at 1:13 PM, archisc said:

Should Helix effects and drives etc be placed between amp and cab as is real world?

 

I see a lot of ppl place amp and cab next to each other instead.

 

On 4/25/2018 at 1:10 PM, phil_m said:

Dude, this is like your sixth thread on this topic... People have been trying to help you, and you generally have not been responding to their comments. There are not "thousands of complaints". There are thousands of happy users, I'm sure. Continually spamming the board isn't going to change anything. If you literally put 60 hours into it, and aren't getting anywhere, I think it's safe to assume that something is either wrong with your setup or even perhaps the Helix you're using.

 

If you really want solutions, you need to give more details about how you're using the Helix, what sounds you're hoping to get, and what guitar(s) you're using. People are more than willing to help.

For your information, I have responded and tried all of your suggestions. Some of you had excellent suggestions under the right circumstances. It is clear that most everyone who has success with a Helix has a sore spot for those of us who havent got there  yet, and are frustrated by it. I have repeatedly said that I was running through the effects return of an amp and that I was either using the Hot Rod or the Grandmeister deluxe. Some have commented that the Hot Rod doesnt have an amp in , and it does and always has. This is where I do blame line6 for not being upfront to the fact that these rigs will not run with amp and cab sims and the like through the front or effects return of a tube amp. I have had the opportunity to take your suggestions with me to Long and Mcquade where I was able to test these out through a powered monitor. The difference is day and night. But as far as sounding natural, close, an exciting development, but not quite there yet. So  I took a headrush home under the same circumstances and got a much more natural sound ( Using the same powered monitor as I did with the Helix in the store). The drawback with Headrush is that HELIX has a more complex and usable interface when it comes to scribble strips, equalization and cab paramters,   and much more disctint overdrive and distortion model selection. The headrush has a better sound model for the TS808. If I could put the headrush tone into a helix board I would have the very best. That being said, I am going to work out another trial with the Helix alongside the Headrush now that you have all educated me where LINE6 failed to be upfront. I would tell you that you are going to run into posts like mine, I garauntee it. Slamming us for being frustrated with a product isnt any help either.FOR SURE LINE6 NEEDS TO BE CLEAR AND CONCISE ON WHAT HELIX CAN RUN THROUGH and WHAT IT CANT DO- in my opinion. The  guys at long and Mcquade were also surprised to see and hear what has been the issue wiith Customers who have tried Helix and why they have returned units complaining about the same thing. The very first thing peolle do in a music store is plug them into an amp and try the presets out. If they are not being told that they need an FRFR monitor and time to tweak high and low cuts- what do you expect? Anyway, I am on my way with the HELIX and I am sure that you wont hear from me again except to save me some time locating how to do something. Thank you to those who got back to me and expressed how they misunderstood what I was experiencing and why this was happening. 

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1 hour ago, willjrock said:

If L6 would simply implement tools similar to a cablab, it would A) make Helix a better and more realistic sounding product, especially in the area of the signal chain that is the most important to the tones in modeling B) allow to you make the sound as dark as you want and kill all the fizz with something other than a lowpass filter.

 

Just do it L6. You want modeling that is realistic, but its not very realistic to mic a guitar cab and NOT have control of some of these very important parameters, if not the MOST important. Including but definitely not limited to deep phase editing and left right placement.

 

I agree that "cablab" is a great tool... but I doubt it solves the problem here. The OP wants to plug the Helix in, turn it on and get great tones. Cablab adds more complexity and deep editing into the hands of the user. Wonderful for the power users, way over the head of the casual user or new user.  

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13 minutes ago, ddmilne said:

The  guys at long and Mcquade were also surprised to see and hear what has been the issue wiith Customers who have tried Helix and why they have returned units complaining about the same thing.

 

OK - your in Canada? Can I ask where you are located... and which L&M isn't trained on this product enough to help you.

 

 

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43 minutes ago, ddmilne said:

The very first thing peolle do in a music store is plug them into an amp and try the presets out.

 

And that’s the exact wrong approach to take... If anything, it shows that there’s a need for more training needed with music store staff, but even that can be tricky as those sorts of jobs typically have pretty high turnover rates.

 

The long and the short of is the Helix is a pro-level piece of gear that requires some amount of background knowledge to use it well. I think it’s one of the easiest pieces of gear to navigate, but it isn’t going to magically give people the sound that’s in their head.

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1 hour ago, ddmilne said:

This is where I do blame line6 for not being upfront to the fact that these rigs will not run with amp and cab sims and the like through the front or effects return of a tube amp.

 

The manual does say that preamp models should be used when running into a guitar amp:

 

We’ve also included a complete set of Preamp versions of each Amp model, which provide the tone of just the preamp stage of the amp—recommended when feeding Helix into an external amplifier (either via 1/4" to your traditional amp or via L6 LINK to a Line 6 DT25 or DT50).

 

It also stands to reason that you would not use the full amp model and cab model when running into a guitar amp power stage and cab. While I appreciate your frustration, you are doing a classic 'blaming the tools' and it's not a good look.

 

 

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47 minutes ago, line6bbd said:

 

While I appreciate your frustration, you are doing a classic 'blaming the tools' and it's not a good look.

 

 

 

Yeah...kinda like "if it weren't for that darn car I wouldn't have turned the wrong way down that one-way street and gotten in the wreck!!!!!

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1 hour ago, phil_m said:

 

And that’s the exact wrong approach to take... If anything, it shows that there’s a need for more training needed with music store staff, but even that can be tricky as those sorts of jobs typically have pretty high turnover rates.

 

The long and the short of is the Helix is a pro-level piece of gear that requires some amount of background knowledge to use it well. I think it’s one of the easiest pieces of gear to navigate, but it isn’t going to magically give people the sound that’s in their head.

 

Anyway guys, I am on my way, I will have the Helix back in my hands tonight ti do a side by side test between HELIX and Headrush. Although I like the sound of the Headrush, I am going to give the HELIX a second look with the proper device. I have also ordered anew FRFR powered speaker for future endeavours. I prefer the interface of the Helix over Headrush , especially with the overall access to paramters and the diversity of the effects, some of which are better than Headrush. As fars as the stores are concerned, in some areas the Helix is out of reach of most peple so the focus for the store  isnt on being experts with L6 Helix. I have passed on everything I have learned to the store and they will run with it with future L6 customers. Thanks Phil for staying wiht me in spite of my remarks about L6. I am sure I will ask for more advice, but it will be only in the interest of expediting the learning curve. 

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"Anyway, I am on my way with the HELIX and I am sure that you wont hear from me again except to save me some time locating how to do something. "

 

Oh, I'm sure...

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Regarding fizz...

 

I usually cut a couple/few dB from around 4.1khz, and 8.1khz with decently high "Q" settings while keeping my total high cut for the patch a bit higher. It varies, but that is a common approach I take.

 

That said, I would not be against L6 adding some sort of Fizz Eliminator specific EQ block (like mentioned above). He'll, I even mentioned the same thing a while back on these forums. May even be on Ideascale.

 

lol give it a ridiculous name like "Fe-Fi-Fizz-None."

 

 

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1 hour ago, ddmilne said:

the Helix is out of reach of most peple so the focus for the store  isnt on being experts with L6 Helix

 

Earlier you mentioned Long and McQuade.... THEY HAVE TO BE EXPERTS with the Helix! They are the Canadian Distributor, Canada's largest music store, and the only place(s) in Canada to buy the product. Sure - there will be employees that know it better than others... but it it is their job! 

 

It is one thing to carry the product, it is completely different when you are the distributor and the only game in the country! I can assure you that in my city.... there is staff in each L&M store that could help you solve your problem.  I'm not saying every staff member can help you, but there is staff in each store that can.

 

1 hour ago, ddmilne said:

I have passed on everything I have learned to the store and they will run with it with future L6 customers.

 

I'm sure Long and McQuade head office along with Line 6 would be thrilled by this!

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Actually, I'm pretty sympathetic to the salespeople who have to help customers try out Helix. That could get complex pretty quickly, and I'm not too sure I'd want to be given that job. Although I suppose if I was, then I'd create a few solid but basic patches on the demo unit and get potential customers to use them. So Plexi, a high gain amp, Twin, Bassman, Matchless and a Mesa maybe. Rather than let people twiddle knobs and get hopelessly lost in a minute. Also, demo via headphones and FRFR to avoid confusion.

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5 minutes ago, line6bbd said:

Actually, I'm pretty sympathetic to the salespeople who have to help customers try out Helix. That could get complex pretty quickly, and I'm not too sure I'd want to be given that job. Although I suppose if I was, then I'd create a few solid but basic patches on the demo unit and get potential customers to use them. So Plexi, a high gain amp, Twin, Bassman, Matchless and a Mesa maybe. Rather than let people twiddle knobs and get hopelessly lost in a minute. Also, demo via headphones and FRFR to avoid confusion.

 

It really can be very hard to demonstrate things to people... I worked in music retail for a little while, and I know it sounds bad, but people either get things or they don't. I mean, I remember spending a lot of time trying to explain things to some potential customers just to have them throw their hands up and be like, "I'll never get this!" and decide to go with something else or not buy anything. It's like some people have conceptual blocks that they simply can't get over. I've also met plenty of people working at stores who have strong opinions against modeling and are simply closed-minded about things. So that doesn't help either.

 

I have to imagine that when it comes to Helix sales, that the number sold at brick and mortar stores is relatively small compared to those bought online. Most GCs don't even carry the Helix.

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