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themetallikid

Line 6 Power Cab

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Silly question that I probably shouldn't have to ask....but here it goes...

 

If I get the one with the speaker sims in it....I would not have to run cab blocks in my presets as it would be handled by the PowerCab, and I could run my line out to the FOH via the Powercab as well correct?

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Yes, if you are running the Powercab in one of the speaker simulation model, the XLR out would apply a mic emulation to the XLR outs (on the PC+ you can select the mic model). If you're running an IR in the PC+, the signal from the XLR out would just have the IR applied.

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22 minutes ago, phil_m said:

Yes, if you are running the Powercab in one of the speaker simulation model, the XLR out would apply a mic emulation to the XLR outs (on the PC+ you can select the mic model). If you're running an IR in the PC+, the signal from the XLR out would just have the IR applied.

 

Two questions:

1)So the mic emulation applied to the XLR out is only selectable on the PC+... just out of curiosity, do you know which mic model is used in the "lesser" version?

 

2) If you're in "flat mode", is the XLR out just a pass through from whatever is coming from Helix?

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5 minutes ago, cruisinon2 said:

 

Two questions:

1)So the mic emulation applied to the XLR out is only selectable on the PC+... just out of curiosity, do you know which mic model is used in the "lesser" version?

 

2) If you're in "flat mode", is the XLR out just a pass through from whatever is coming from Helix?

 

1) I'm not sure... I was wondering about that myself.

 

2) Yes.

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6 minutes ago, phil_m said:

 

1) I'm not sure... I was wondering about that myself.

 

2) Yes.

 

Fair enough,  thanks.

 

Lord knows I don't "need" this thing, but it is intriguing...

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1 hour ago, cruisinon2 said:

 

Fair enough,  thanks.

 

Lord knows I don't "need" this thing, but it is intriguing...

 

So I asked DI about the mic emulation on the regular Powercab, and it's always an SM57.

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Man, I was looking at some less expensive options, but the idea of 'limiting' myself to the choices on the cab, and not having to use DSP for a cab block, is very intriguing....

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My follow up question then would be.....

 

If I had:

Bank A - PowerCab Presets

Bank B - Direct to FOH Presets

 

If I'm using the 'lesser' PowerCab with the standard SM57 mic 'ouput' to FOH.....is there a cab in the Helix that I can put in my Bank B Presets that will make it consistent with Bank A's presets?  Like Cab X with SM57 Mic sim will be equivalent to PowerCab's Link output?

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33 minutes ago, themetallikid said:

My follow up question then would be.....

 

If I had:

Bank A - PowerCab Presets

Bank B - Direct to FOH Presets

 

If I'm using the 'lesser' PowerCab with the standard SM57 mic 'ouput' to FOH.....is there a cab in the Helix that I can put in my Bank B Presets that will make it consistent with Bank A's presets?  Like Cab X with SM57 Mic sim will be equivalent to PowerCab's Link output?

 

That's all gonna boil down to subjective evaluation on a patch by patch basis...A and B will either sound the same, or they won't...

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1 hour ago, phil_m said:

 

So I asked DI about the mic emulation on the regular Powercab, and it's always an SM57.

 

Thanks... can't say I'm surprised, as ever-present as the 57's are in live settings, lol.

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Man, I'm hoping we can turn the horn off ourselves in Helix and load our own raw speaker IR's.  I have some ideas ;)

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9 minutes ago, roscoe5 said:

Man, I'm hoping we can turn the horn off ourselves in Helix and load our own raw speaker IR's.  I have some ideas ;)

Did you read the specs?  There is no horn,  it's a coax speaker.  My guess is, that that price range you'd be asking a lot for loading speaker IRs, but who knows.

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29 minutes ago, DunedinDragon said:

Did you read the specs?  There is no horn,  it's a coax speaker.  My guess is, that that price range you'd be asking a lot for loading speaker IRs, but who knows.

I did.  I understand the configuration.  "Horn" was the wrong term.  Should have said HF driver.

 

I just pulled the manual for it.  It looks like there are some subcategory modes of Flat Mode called LF that disables the HF driver, potentially enabling a raw speaker IR application.

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I am curious as to who makes the coax speaker in the Powercab? Also find it interesting that Line6 chose to go with a 250 peak watts of power rather than the 1,000+ watts that many newer powered PA speakers and some other FRFR options tend to come in around or about. I was unable to find a continuous(RMS) power rating listed. Continuous wattage is usuallly significantly less so I am wondering what it is? Likely that the power range in the Powercab is more like a traditional guitar amp than for example a powered PA speaker. Not necessarily a negative IMHO just a very different approach than some of the other recent offerings such as the Headrush FRFR which has 2,000 watts peak and 1,000 continuous (RMS).

 

I do find the Powercab tempting! The ability to offload the cab or IR processing DSP on the Powercab+ as well as being able to use the L6 link for a seamless digital flow from the Helix is great. I wonder if they will ever find the development cycles to allow control of the various functions such as cab/mic selection or IR loading to be done from the Helix. That would be a lot easier than working the back panel of the Powercab or having to connect a computer. I think implementing control over the Powercab from the Helix, LT,  and maybe even the HX Effects will definitely sell a lot more of them.

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18 minutes ago, HonestOpinion said:

I am curious as to who makes the coax speaker in the Powercab? Also find it interesting that Line6 chose to go with a 250 peak watts of power rather than the 1,000+ watts that many newer powered PA speakers and some other FRFR options tend to come in around or about. I was unable to find a continuous(RMS) power rating listed. Continuous wattage is usuallly significantly less so I am wondering what it is? Likely that the power range in the Powercab is more like a traditional guitar amp than for example a powered PA speaker. Not necessarily a negative IMHO just a very different approach than some of the other recent offerings such as the Headrush FRFR which has 2,000 watts peak and 1,000 continuous (RMS).

 

I do find the Powercab tempting! The ability to offload the cab or IR processing DSP on the Powercab+ as well as being able to use the L6 link for a seamless digital flow from the Helix is great. I wonder if they will ever find the development cycles to allow control of the various functions such as cab/mic selection or IR loading to be done from the Helix. That would be a lot easier than working the back panel of the Powercab or having to connect a computer. I think implementing control over the Powercab from the Helix, LT,  and maybe even the HX Effects will definitely sell a lot more of them.

You can find in some articles that it's based on the Eminence Beta 12CX platform with a custom guitar cone and Celestion HF driver.

 

The Mission Gemini is based on the same Beta 12CX and is only 110W RMS.

 

So this does seem like a common approach vs the ultra-high power PA style FRFR.

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2 hours ago, roscoe5 said:

You can find in some articles that it's based on the Eminence Beta 12CX platform with a custom guitar cone and Celestion HF driver.

 

The Mission Gemini is based on the same Beta 12CX and is only 110W RMS.

 

So this does seem like a common approach vs the ultra-high power PA style FRFR.

 

Thanks for the info on the coax speaker! If you happen to stumble across the link please post it.

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11 minutes ago, HonestOpinion said:

 

Thanks for the info on the coax speaker! If you happen to stumble across the link please post it.

 

 

What’s the reference speaker used?

Powercab features a custom designed 8Ω, 12" coaxial speaker that uses a guitar-style cone as opposed to a PA-style cone with a 2” high-temperature voice coil loosely based on the Eminence Beta 12CX format. The 1” compression driver is a Celestion CDX 1-1010, which is used only for Flat mode, monitor feeds, and user IR modes; it’s not utilized at all for speaker models.

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I'm curious to why the Celestion CDX1-1010 was chosen over the Eminence ASD1001 HF driver designed for the Beta 12CX frame.  Both are the same retail price.  The Eminence has a 50W power rating and the Celestion 30W.  The Powercab amp is 50W to the HF driver.

 

Maybe the frequency response of the Celestion was better for the guitar application.  I'm sure tons of research and design went into the decisions.  Line 6's creativity is impressive on this one for sure.

 

https://celestion.com/product/135/cdx11010/

 

https://www.eminence.com/pdf/ASD1001S.pdf

 

 

 

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On 4/27/2018 at 8:28 PM, roscoe5 said:

 

 

What’s the reference speaker used?

Powercab features a custom designed 8Ω, 12" coaxial speaker that uses a guitar-style cone as opposed to a PA-style cone with a 2” high-temperature voice coil loosely based on the Eminence Beta 12CX format. The 1” compression driver is a Celestion CDX 1-1010, which is used only for Flat mode, monitor feeds, and user IR modes; it’s not utilized at all for speaker models.

 

Great links including Line6Tony's post, very informative, thank you! Interesting that they used a "custom designed" speaker. That still doesn't tell us who manufactures it. Unusual that it is "based" on an Eminence speaker but that the compression driver appears to be an actual Celestion. Mixing and matching speaker manufacturers, hmm.

 

I don't think the compression driver's 30 watts of continuous power should be a problem. At least according to the Powercab's specs on Line6 "Products" page the 50 watt power rating to the compression driver is a peak power rating which could easily translate into 30 watts continuous power or less so the Celestion should be able to handle it. I could not find a peak watts rating in the Celestion specs. Just to make things more fun Celestion's specs for the CDX1-1010 compression driver list RMS and continuous power separately and differently. They do explain the difference in their footnotes. Continuous power and RMS are usually used synonymously by most manufacturers even if they are not exactly the same thing. https://blog.zzounds.com/2017/07/19/peak-vs-continuous-power-ratings-speakers/

 

Also enlightening that the Powercab does not allow the option to use the compression driver for speaker models. I suppose it kind of makes sense if they wanted to avoid people complaining about high-end fizz. That decision probably makes the Powercab act more like a normal guitar cab and allow more people to get an authentic guitar tone instantly which btw, would be in keeping with their decision to go with a lower wattage amplifier.

 

My other question does not really get answered either, "what is the actual continuous (RMS) power rating?". All I saw in the Powercab description on Line6's product site is 250 peak watts(guitar speaker 200 peak watts and compression driver 50 peak watts). Line6Tony's comment about "real watts" is on point as there can be substantial discrepancies as well as genuine differences in methodology in how various manufacturers rate power supplies. However, while I acknowledge how power ratings can be fudged, mistaken, or shall we say overly optimistic, I have to admit that to many old spec readers like myself "real watts" is measured in continuous power or RMS, not peak. I hope Line6 publishes the continuous power spec. If someone finds it please post back here. I know in the fast-paced world of measure-bating, manufacturers are loath to put out a smaller power rating than their competitors but it is still informative and may actually be an advantage and postive differentiator in the Powercab .

 

I like the approach Line6 has taken here with a lower powered but still quite substantial amplifier in their cab. This is a hybrid beast and has the potential to sound great with any modeler and be the perfect companion to a modeler in the Helix/HX line. Particularly if the HX firmware is enhanced to allow control of the Powercab. The lower wattage may actually prove to be an advantage in getting more authentic guitar tones.  I say announce your lower power rating loudly and with pride Line6. ("Smiley-face emoticon", if you are reading this after the emoticons get restored to the forum please realize they were not implemented yet when this post was originally written. "Additional smiley-face emoticon")

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On 2018-04-27 at 8:46 AM, cruisinon2 said:

 

Two questions:

1)So the mic emulation applied to the XLR out is only selectable on the PC+... just out of curiosity, do you know which mic model is used in the "lesser" version?

 

2) If you're in "flat mode", is the XLR out just a pass through from whatever is coming from Helix?

 

 

I believe I saw in a post on TGP from DI that the mic used on the XLR out is a SM57. 

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On 27.4.2018 at 9:44 PM, roscoe5 said:

I did.  I understand the configuration.  "Horn" was the wrong term.  Should have said HF driver.

You wasn't so wrong ;)

The HF driver in a coaxial system leads into a horn or something similar that the coax developpers call horn :)

If you cannot switch off the HF driver out of the box, it should be easy to implement a switch doing this. But perhaps it would be better to wait until the unit is out of warranty.

The idea itself to switch HF of would reproduce the beam pattern of a reglar 12" speaker, so it would beam far more. If someone liks it, OK, i'm happy that the times of changing sound with every degree are gone.

And to design IRs for this scenario it would be helpful to know the frequency response ot the woofer.

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