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yeatzee

How to get Great Reverb Sounds

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Hey guys I'm sure many of you have seen my video on getting great reverb sounds over on some other forums, but I totally forgot that this forum existed and figured I'd share it here as well with you all. I go in-depth on a setup I created that allows you to get some really nice complex sounding modulated reverbs that I feel are a step up from HX reverbs that were added recently. Let me know what you think, and if you want to check it out there's a patch link in the description box. The description also has time stamps to jump around in case you don't want to watch the whole thing front to end :)

 

 

I just finished up another video on snapshots I'll post in a separate thread. Anyways, love my Helix and thought I'd share!

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Ha! Saw this thread title and instantly remembered watching your video from Chads group. Open it up only to find the same vid! You do a good job explaining things in the video. About to try some of these concepts in full stereo with my new HX tied into the floor unit. 

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3 hours ago, sammycraig said:

Ha! Saw this thread title and instantly remembered watching your video from Chads group. Open it up only to find the same vid! You do a good job explaining things in the video. About to try some of these concepts in full stereo with my new HX tied into the floor unit. 

Yeah I figured most on here are also on there, but ya never know! Thanks, I was surprised how much harder it is to do anything with a camera in your face and no one around it's definitely  been a learning experience! Good luck!

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Thanks for making this video, I watched it a month ago myself and tried the ideas. I agree the new reverbs were a bit disappointing, this approach sounds quite good, it just eats up a fair amount of processing and one of the 4 paths. Still hoping Line 6 expands the hx reverbs more with something more usable. But in the meantime this is great!

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Fantastic stuff!

I implented this in two of my favorite patches and it's great. Nice, dense and smooth.

Thanks man!

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What happens when a setup like this gets summed to mono on the output block?  In a live setting, is it worth running stereo, assuming the sound person would even agree to do such a thing?  Asking for a P&W/Church type setting.

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I watched the vid and set up the patch as demonstrated over the weekend. I though it was pretty good, actually. Perhaps I should have said so sooner :-) Good enough to save as a template for further use.

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Great video and excellent reverb sounds but more effort and more DSP required than I would generally dedicate to my reverb. Might be great for specific presets where the reverb sound was paramount. I'm sure some of the more diligent preset designors here will get a lot of mileage out of yeatzee's video.

 

Still hoping for Line6 to add mono HX versions of the meat and potato reverb models like spring, hall, plate, etc..  With all the talk on the forum about Strymon style reverbs I can understand why Line6 chose to deliver the reverb selection they did last update. However, it feels like somebody handed me some hip-hugging Jordache designer jeans with a Bedazzler kit and a tube full of glitter when all I really wanted was some high quality work pants.

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13 minutes ago, HonestOpinion said:

Still hoping for Line6 to add mono HX versions of the meat and potato reverb models like spring, hall, plate, etc..  With all the talk on the forum about Strymon style reverbs I can understand why Line6 chose to deliver the reverb selection they did last update. However, it feels like somebody handed me some designer hip-hugging Jordache jeans with a Bedazzler kit and a tube full of glitter when all I really wanted was some high quality work pants.

This is the best thing I have read on here in months!

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This really is a great method for reverbs! Typically I've set up my patches with snapshots to control gain/drive sounds but never thought of using them for reverb levels. Thanks for sharing this!

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On 5/1/2018 at 8:47 AM, jonandtice said:

What happens when a setup like this gets summed to mono on the output block?  In a live setting, is it worth running stereo, assuming the sound person would even agree to do such a thing?  Asking for a P&W/Church type setting.

Personally, I don't waste my time with stereo. I am also playing in a P&W setting. Only those sitting in the right spot in the room are going to get the "benefit" of the stereo things happening, so I don't bother. It does sound FANTASTIC especially in the videos where they are just playing alone, but most of that cool ambient stuff won't cut through a mix. 

 

I run my patches mono with the cab/IR as the last thing in the signal chain. I do have some ambient effects that I use when most everything else drops out in the mix, but most of the time that stuff won't cut through anyway. 

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21 hours ago, jbuhajla said:

Personally, I don't waste my time with stereo. I am also playing in a P&W setting. Only those sitting in the right spot in the room are going to get the "benefit" of the stereo things happening, so I don't bother. It does sound FANTASTIC especially in the videos where they are just playing alone, but most of that cool ambient stuff won't cut through a mix. 

 

I run my patches mono with the cab/IR as the last thing in the signal chain. I do have some ambient effects that I use when most everything else drops out in the mix, but most of the time that stuff won't cut through anyway. 

I strongly disagree. Stereo is fantastic live, and does not mean someone sitting in the middle is only going to benefit. Modern PA's are not laser beams, they disperse pretty quickly and stereo doesn't require 100% Left / 100% right panning. 

I also think the whole run dryer tones live thing is a misconception. Your tones are automatically going to sound dryer live, reverb and delay disappears really quickly live and if you want the same tones you are hearing alone at home up on the stage at church you'll need to run your mix levels much higher. I recommend listening to recordings of your P&W team if your board can record, it might be a revelation!

 

P.s. same goes for gain. Your tone will always sound cleaner live than at home.

 

 

On 5/2/2018 at 7:23 AM, ajcrowder said:

This really is a great method for reverbs! Typically I've set up my patches with snapshots to control gain/drive sounds but never thought of using them for reverb levels. Thanks for sharing this!

Happy to help, and thanks!

 

On 5/1/2018 at 1:35 PM, HonestOpinion said:

Great video and excellent reverb sounds but more effort and more DSP required than I would generally dedicate to my reverb. Might be great for specific presets where the reverb sound was paramount. I'm sure some of the more diligent preset designors here will get a lot of mileage out of yeatzee's video.

 

Still hoping for Line6 to add mono HX versions of the meat and potato reverb models like spring, hall, plate, etc..  With all the talk on the forum about Strymon style reverbs I can understand why Line6 chose to deliver the reverb selection they did last update. However, it feels like somebody handed me some hip-hugging Jordache designer jeans with a Bedazzler kit and a tube full of glitter when all I really wanted was some high quality work pants.

I play music that often requires nice reverb tones. It does take up some DSP, but what do you require that isn't able to be fit? As it stands that template allows for 1 mono delay, 3 stereo delays, 4 stereo "reverbs", 1 stereo chorus, 1 stereo compressor, 1 stereo volume pedal, 2 stereo EQ's, and basically any one other stereo effect of your choosing (in this case I picked tremolo).  

 

(Also I'd love a new spring!)

 

On 5/1/2018 at 8:11 AM, line6bbd said:

I watched the vid and set up the patch as demonstrated over the weekend. I though it was pretty good, actually. Perhaps I should have said so sooner :-) Good enough to save as a template for further use.

Thanks! The patch is definitely more about the template than the raw tone.

 

On 5/1/2018 at 6:47 AM, jonandtice said:

What happens when a setup like this gets summed to mono on the output block?  In a live setting, is it worth running stereo, assuming the sound person would even agree to do such a thing?  Asking for a P&W/Church type setting.

It'll require much less "b" mix since things get muddier in mono with less of a mix. You'll lose the stereo movement which helps make it so great, but it'll still sound better than the stock reverbs. Download the patch in the description and give it a go! If you replace all of the stereo blocks with mono one's you'll be able to fit more stuff too.

 

I play P&W a lot and stereo is absolutely worth doing *IF your system can handle true stereo. A lot can't. For the sound person it couldn't be easier. "Hey XXXX I'm using channels 16&17 today, could you set the gain the same on both and pan each appropriately? Thanks!". Just make sure phase isn't flipped on one channel and phantom power isn't on.

 

On 5/1/2018 at 1:06 AM, Jos_K said:

Fantastic stuff!

I implented this in two of my favorite patches and it's great. Nice, dense and smooth.

Thanks man!

Glad to hear you enjoyed it!

 

On 4/30/2018 at 12:07 AM, zachhodges said:

Thanks for making this video, I watched it a month ago myself and tried the ideas. I agree the new reverbs were a bit disappointing, this approach sounds quite good, it just eats up a fair amount of processing and one of the 4 paths. Still hoping Line 6 expands the hx reverbs more with something more usable. But in the meantime this is great!

Thanks! It does eat up some DSP and a path, but out of curiosity what would you use/do that you can't fit/do in this template? If you want to utilize the parallel path with effects just turn off the 100% reverb and the effects you don't want (or reduce the mixes with snapshots) and set the a/b split to even. Snapshots make it so that you should easily be able to do just about anything with this template. If you don't use snapshots check out my recent video on snapshots (I'll make another thread eventually) :)

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13 hours ago, yeatzee said:

...

I play music that often requires nice reverb tones. It does take up some DSP, but what do you require that isn't able to be fit? As it stands that template allows for 1 mono delay, 3 stereo delays, 4 stereo "reverbs", 1 stereo chorus, 1 stereo compressor, 1 stereo volume pedal, 2 stereo EQ's, and basically any one other stereo effect of your choosing (in this case I picked tremolo).  

...

 

Despite the fact that except in very rare cases I do not find the DSP to be limiting on the Helix there are any number of presets I have that get near to or actually max out the DSP while using only a single reverb block.  They would not be able to accommodate the multiple additional blocks required for a more elaborate reverb setup. Some of my presets are lean and mean with plenty of DSP to spare and some utilize all of the DSP available.  These include presets with three amp models that emulate a three channel amp or with multiple IRs or cabs, also presets with particularly DSP intensive effect blocks, or "kitchen sink" presets with every effect I might want to kick in spontaneously during a tune.  Some of my more bloated presets might include two compressors(beginning and end of signal chain), flanger, chorus, phaser, touch-wah, pitch block, multiple overdrives/distortion, looper, multiple delays, etc.. Believe me, once you get to picking stuff off the shelves of the Helix candy store it is easier than you think to fill up your shopping cart.

 

How much effort and DSP I am willing to devote to reverb depends on the sound I am going for. Many tunes I play require only one block for reverb with minimal tweaking. I use snapshots and they get utilized to vary the reverb parameters where necessary. I understand the utility of your video for some scenarios but having room for "one other stereo effect" would not be sufficient  in many presets. Don't get me wrong, as I stated in my previous post, I think your video provides some great tones and ingenious methods for getting a grand reverb tone.  You have definitely demonstrated some higher level reverb design ideas. However, depending on the focus of a preset and what other blocks are required, using it a a general template would not work for everyone as it would be too DSP intensive, and that is fine. Your video will be just the ticket for some folks, others may use a subset of the blocks in your preset.  I am sure you can see where depending on what other blocks are required in a preset there are scenarios where a single reverb block is preferable. This is a great video for presets focused on reverb but I don't think it can be characterized as leaving plenty of DSP for other things. Nothing wrong with that, it has other virtues. Thank you for posting it!

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Thanks @yeatzee for the video and patch! Watched it long ago and immediately preferred it to the new HX verbs. I agree that it can get quite DSP intensive though... Can barely fit a single chorus in that path. So it's being used in slower P&W songs. Keep making videos, it's good stuff!

 

As for the comment on drier sounds for live, I think that tip is for:

-untreated rooms with low ceilings, hard floors, lots of reflective surfaces.

-use of reverb not as an effect itself, but to fatten up a dry tone.

 

As already mentioned, listening to live recordings help a lot.

 

Side request for a tip:

I'm trying to get a workaround for a Ebow (for "Let there be light" by Hillsong). Using the patch in the OP video, I've found that reducing the highcut in the parallel path reverbs helps to make the reverb trails sound less distinguishable from a sustained volume swell note.

 

Any other tweaks to make it sound more like an Ebow? Maybe some moderate compression after the reverbs? Currently it's a little tight on spare DSP

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4 hours ago, HonestOpinion said:

 

Despite the fact that except in very rare cases I do not find the DSP to be limiting on the Helix there are any number of presets I have that get near to or actually max out the DSP while using only a single reverb block.  They would not be able to accommodate the multiple additional blocks required for a more elaborate reverb setup. Some of my presets are lean and mean with plenty of DSP to spare and some utilize all of the DSP available.  These include presets with three amp models that emulate a three channel amp or with multiple IRs or cabs. Presets with particularly DSP intensive effect blocks, or "kitchen sink" presets with every effect I might want to kick in spontaneously during a tune.  Some of my more bloated presets might include two compressors(beginning and end of signal chain), flanger, chorus, phaser, touch-wah, pitch block, multiple overdrives/distortion, looper, multiple delays, etc.. Believe me, once you get to picking stuff off the shelves of the Helix candy store it is easier than you think to fill up your shopping cart.

 

How much effort and DSP I am willing to devote to reverb depends on the sound I am going for. Many tunes I play require only one block for reverb with minimal tweaking. I use snapshots and they get utilized to vary the reverb parameters where necessary. I understand the utility of your video for some scenarios but having room for "one other stereo effect" would not be sufficient  in many presets. Don't get me wrong, as I stated in my previous post, I think your video provides some great tones and ingenious methods for getting a grand reverb tone.  You have definitely demonstrated some higher level reverb design ideas. However, depending on the focus of a preset and what other blocks are required, using it a a general template would not work for everyone as it would be too DSP intensive, and that is fine. Your video will be just the ticket for some folks, others may use a subset of the blocks in your preset.  I am sure you can see where depending on what other blocks are required in a preset there are scenarios where a single reverb block is preferable. This is a great video for presets focused on reverb but I don't think it can be characterized as leaving plenty of DSP for other things. Nothing wrong with that, it has other virtues. Thank you for posting it!

Totally get it, if you just need a basic plate reverb at all times for example there's no point in doing this (though I'd say still do a parallel path, just don't make one side 100% wet). I'm certainly not claiming there is no reason to use any other template setup by any means, that'd be dumb haha. With this reverb setup it's not really about adding it to your existing template, it's about building a new template for yourself around the template I built. Absolutely if you need three amps with stereo cabs you're not going to be able to fit much though so I get it :)

 

My question is purely curiosity based, the internet is hard because tone doesn't come across so I'm not attacking your needs or anything. What are you requiring for an individual song you do that you can't fit as is in this template? Maybe I could think of a solution I could cover in another video for other people that might feel similarly :)

 

It's worth noting I mentioned "one other stereo effect" which would be in addition to, in the video patch's case..

 

  • 3 overdrives
  • 1 mono compressor, 1 stereo compressor
  • 1 volume pedal
  • 1 mono delay
  • 3 stereo delays
  • 3 stereo reverbs (counting individual blocks, not the different reverb tones you can get as shown by the video when using the split path)
  • 1 stereo eq
  • 1 stereo clean boost
  • 1 stereo chorus
  • 1 stereo tremolo

and depending on your stereo delay choices in path 2 you could fit another stereo delay, or a stereo flanger/phaser/vibe etc. For path 1 it's got 3 OD's as I mentioned, which is pretty overkill with snapshots and amp gain being available so remove one or two of those and you could fit more modulation effects, a wah, more mono delays, etc.

 

And Thanks! I appreciate it :)

 

1 hour ago, Meiannatee said:

Thanks @yeatzee for the video and patch! Watched it long ago and immediately preferred it to the new HX verbs. I agree that it can get quite DSP intensive though... Can barely fit a single chorus in that path. So it's being used in slower P&W songs. Keep making videos, it's good stuff!

 

As for the comment on drier sounds for live, I think that tip is for:

-untreated rooms with low ceilings, hard floors, lots of reflective surfaces.

-use of reverb not as an effect itself, but to fatten up a dry tone.

 

As already mentioned, listening to live recordings help a lot.

 

Side request for a tip:

I'm trying to get a workaround for a Ebow (for "Let there be light" by Hillsong). Using the patch in the OP video, I've found that reducing the highcut in the parallel path reverbs helps to make the reverb trails sound less distinguishable from a sustained volume swell note.

 

Any other tweaks to make it sound more like an Ebow? Maybe some moderate compression after the reverbs? Currently it's a little tight on spare DSP

Thanks man, more videos on the way!

 

Check out my comment above, I'd love to hear about what you're missing. You mentioned chorus, with the patch as is there's already a stereo chorus on path 2b. Turn off the 100% cave reverb and whatever effects you don't want on with it and set the split to whatever you like. If you require the full ambient reverb setup in path 2b to be ON while having chorus on your clean signal like there's 3 overdrives on path 1 which is overkill so narrow it down to 2 and you've got chorus + the full ambient reverb thing (Or whatever other modulation effect you need). The template is maxed out as an example, not as a hard rule. Delete everything but the plate reverb on path 2a and everything on 2b, then build what you need and just remember that all of the effects that work together to make the ambient reverb can be used individually as well.

 

I think what I'll do is a part 2 video going over all of the ways to configure it to match outside requirements. 

 

As for your request, I've got zero experience with an ebow and I'm not familiar with that song however if you need more DSP to be opened up on path 2 AND still require the 2 stereo delays and modulation I've got on there (Trem, dual delay, and transistor tape in the stock YeatzeeVerb patch) the easiest block to sacrifice is the dual delay in path 2b. It does the least to the reverb tone.

 

Hope all of this is clear and helps you guys!

 

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2 hours ago, yeatzee said:

Totally get it, if you just need a basic plate reverb at all times for example there's no point in doing this (though I'd say still do a parallel path, just don't make one side 100% wet). I'm certainly not claiming there is no reason to use any other template setup by any means, that'd be dumb haha. With this reverb setup it's not really about adding it to your existing template, it's about building a new template for yourself around the template I built. Absolutely if you need three amps with stereo cabs you're not going to be able to fit much though so I get it :)

 

My question is purely curiosity based, the internet is hard because tone doesn't come across so I'm not attacking your needs or anything. What are you requiring for an individual song you do that you can't fit as is in this template? Maybe I could think of a solution I could cover in another video for other people that might feel similarly :)

 

It's worth noting I mentioned "one other stereo effect" which would be in addition to, in the video patch's case..

 

  • 3 overdrives
  • 1 mono compressor, 1 stereo compressor
  • 1 volume pedal
  • 1 mono delay
  • 3 stereo delays
  • 3 stereo reverbs (counting individual blocks, not the different reverb tones you can get as shown by the video when using the split path)
  • 1 stereo eq
  • 1 stereo clean boost
  • 1 stereo chorus
  • 1 stereo tremolo

and depending on your stereo delay choices in path 2 you could fit another stereo delay, or a stereo flanger/phaser/vibe etc. For path 1 it's got 3 OD's as I mentioned, which is pretty overkill with snapshots and amp gain being available so remove one or two of those and you could fit more modulation effects, a wah, more mono delays, etc.

 

And Thanks! I appreciate it :)

 

...

 

I appreciate your point. Amazing how many useful blocks you stuffed in there.  No arguing that it will work in many a situation and the reverbs sound top notch. Great stuff, please keep it coming. Also no debating that having a broad selection of HX reverbs, including mono versions of commonly used reverbs such as spring, plate, and hall, presents you with the option of a lower DSP footprint, less blocks used, less configuration required, and more DSP and blocks available for other tasks. Hoping to see continuing evolution of the reverbs on the Helix as well as helpful videos on how to get the most out of the existing ones.

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On 4/27/2018 at 6:07 PM, yeatzee said:

Hey guys I'm sure many of you have seen my video on getting great reverb sounds over on some other forums, but I totally forgot that this forum existed and figured I'd share it here as well with you all. I go in-depth on a setup I created that allows you to get some really nice complex sounding modulated reverbs that I feel are a step up from HX reverbs that were added recently. Let me know what you think, and if you want to check it out there's a patch link in the description box. The description also has time stamps to jump around in case you don't want to watch the whole thing front to end :)

 

I just finished up another video on snapshots I'll post in a separate thread. Anyways, love my Helix and thought I'd share!

How do the HX reverbs in the 2.60 updated measure up?

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I have been tinkering with them for the past 4 hours and I can honestly say they are everything I hoped they would be when they were first released.  I think Line 6 knocked it outta the park on this one.  The two new amps are also very well done as are the new distortions.    

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Agreed, I only played with them for a few minutes, but there was a noticeable difference. They are more wet, but they feel smoother now too. There was a sort of graininess to them before that's gone now.

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We you just noodling around or playing some songs?  Watching this video is making me sell my pedals on reverb right now and buy a Heli?  If songs, can you let everyone know the names.

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