HX Effects to Control Atomic Amplifire via MIDI

[zoommooz]

Let me start with, I got my HX Effects about 2 months ago. While I love many things about it, there are some frustrations I've had too. Especially trying to use the HX as a simple, MIDI control and effect system. When I was told about the HX it sure sounded like it could deliver on my basic needs of great effects, without built-in Amp Sims, CHECK, The ability to use the Atomic Amplifire ("AA3") Or other 3rd party Modelers as my Amp sounds, CHECK, and what I thought would act as the MIDI controller to have the AA3 change presets a.k.a different amp tone, after stepping on a preset switch on the HX. As an example if I press preset 1A, the effects on the HX are added, and via MIDI the AA3 changes to the specific amp tone. Instead of having to choose amp tones (presets) on the AA3 manually, like I do now! A pIan !

 

I realize it might make more sense to use the AA3 as the "front" control to change the amp tones first, which then via MIDI changes the HX to a certain preset or patch with specific effects. BUT, I was hoping I could set it up the other way. Meaning the HX would be the "front" a.k.a. main control to choose a preset or snapshot. So when choosing preset 1A on the HX, it might be labeled with a specific song, such as "PINK NUMB" (as in Comfortably Numb) which changes to that presets effects, and via MIDI changes the AA3 to a certain preset (amp tone/ sound). to match.

 

I did find out if I use the AA3 at the "front", it can ONLY send preset 1 to preset 1 or preset 17 to preset 17 on the HX or other MIDI device. So you have to have BOTH of the preset locations on the HX and AA3 lined up with the correct amp tone and appropriate effects in the HX for this to work. Not a big problem, but certainly less than ideal in my mind. The other issue is I MUCH prefer to use the nice bright, big labels on the HX to see preset names. The AA3 has a very small display making it MUCH harder to read especially live.

 

I also read something today on the Line 6 forum that MIDI changes can ONLY be sent on a particular foot switch in STOMP BOX mode ONLY. BUT, what I'm trying to do is have each preset or snapshot as a specific sounds or group of songs, be able to step on a preset, have it update the HX with effects in that preset and change the amp tone on the AA3.

 

Let me also say, I get the basics of MIDI but I am far from an expert too. Anyone have any great ideas as to how to solve this. I am really disappointed that the HX is so far not able to deliver on the MIDI and routing capabilities I was hoping !

 

If you have any good ideas as to how to solve this I would surely appreciate it.

 

Thanks.

[rd2rk]

"Let me start with, I got my HX Effects about 2 months ago. While I love many things about it, there are some frustrations I've had too. Especially trying to use the HX as a simple, MIDI control and effect system. When I was told about the HX it sure sounded like it could deliver on my basic needs of great effects, without built-in Amp Sims, CHECK, The ability to use the Atomic Amplifire ("AA3") Or other 3rd party Modelers as my Amp sounds, CHECK, and what I thought would act as the MIDI controller to have the AA3 change presets a.k.a different amp tone, after stepping on a preset switch on the HX. As an example if I press preset 1A, the effects on the HX are added, and via MIDI the AA3 changes to the specific amp tone. Instead of having to choose amp tones (presets) on the AA3 manually, like I do now! A pIan !"

 

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I don't have the HX, I've got the Helix floor. I just had a quick look at the HX manual, and MIDI functions look to be the same. So based on what I've just read, and if I get what you're trying to do, it's going to be about the same as what I do with my Helix and various amp sims.

 

In GLOBALS/MIDI set MIDI PC Tx = OFF - this prevents the HX from sending the default PC# on Preset Select

In COMMAND CENTER, set an INSTANT COMMAND to the AA3 PC#  (and the AA3 Channel) that you wish to call from that HX Preset - this sends the PC# of your choice to the AA3 on HX Preset Select.

 

 

[zoommooz]

Hi Thx !! I’ll try that later tonight to see how it goes. That would be awesome if I can get this working !

 

thx. 

[zoommooz]

I tried what you said but still nothing! Im sure its some stupidly simple thing if you know how to work with MIDI ! I chnaged what you said but nothing chnages or happens at all! I set all the MIDI IN stuff on the AA3 to Omni MIDI channel so it makes no difference which channel. I have ONE MIDI cable from the MIDI out of the HX to the MIDI IN of the AA3 (I assume this is right)  What the hell else am I missing. 

 

I also accidentally deleted one of main presets !! Im so pissed I have to start all over again to get this thing working.

 

I am clearly not getting how to use this thing and Im beyond frustrated ! And I happen to very technically savvy but guess not with LIne 6 stuff!

 

I'm REALLY starting to hate the HX with a passion!!! Im so frustrated by the lack of good documenttation to resolve many seamingly simple issues!!   I spent $600 and still after 2 months cannot get this to work as promised! 

 

As usual Line 6 has terrible documentation and they always say the same dumb thing. "Check the videos on our support page. Those are about as helpful as a tax audit! Ive even called LIne 6 several times and those idiots cant seem tp help me with this. They dont even know their own damn products

 

Questions: 

 

Does the INSTANT COMMAND apply to ONLY the snapshot/preset or bank that is selected at a given time ? It seems to be that way ?

 

How do you clear or delete a snapshot ? I CANNOT find anythign about how to delete a snapshot OTHER than clearing the block (I tried this by clearing a block thinking it would delete only the one snapshot, but realized this deleted my entire preset, so I LOST ALL of the work I already did.  ! Such BS !!)

 

PLEASE need help ASAP !! 

[rd2rk]

DEEP BREATH!

Midi is not for the faint of heart.

First: What kind of computer are you using? IF PC, THEN - did you do this:

 

From the manual, page 42:

 

*NOTE: For USB MIDI operation on Windows computers, it is necessary to download and install the Line 6 HX Effects device driver, available from line6.com/software. There is no driver installation necessary for connecting to an Apple Mac computer or an iPad or iPhone mobile device.
For connectivity with iPad and iPhone mobile devices, an Apple Camera Connection Kit USB adapter is required (sold separately).

 

Next: Set both your HX and AA3 to the same Channel#. DO NOT rely on OMNI! All devices have the option, it doesn't always work as expected. You might also want to set your INSTANT COMMANDs and AA3 to a Channel OTHER than the HX BASE Channel. Not essential, but helps to avoid confusion as to whether YOU set the command (or forgot to set the channel when you set the command), or the HX is doing it's own thing.

 

Next: I assume that you're connected to your PC via USB cable, and that USB is turned ON in GLOBAL/MIDI. Get a MIDI Monitor program (MIDIOX is free and the best for PC). Test to be sure that the HX is sending MIDI.

 

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If you did this:

 

"In GLOBALS/MIDI set MIDI PC Tx = OFF - this prevents the HX from sending the default PC# on Preset Select

In COMMAND CENTER, set an INSTANT COMMAND to the AA3 PC#  (and the AA3 Channel) that you wish to call from that HX Preset - this sends the PC# of your choice to the AA3 on HX Preset Select." 

NOTE: The HX may also send CC#61 as it does on the Helix. Nobody knows why. It will also send any Toggling CC#s that you've assigned to regular footswitches.

 

.........AND SAVED the preset in which you set the INSTANT COMMAND, when you select that preset it should send the PC# that you set in the INSTANT COMMAND. If you select a different preset, nothing will be sent UNLESS you've also set an INSTANT COMMAND in THAT preset. It's an either /or proposition. Once you've turned OFF PC Tx, you need to set INSTANT COMMANDs in every preset that you decide to use. The price of granular control vs Global Defaults.

 

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".......this deleted my entire preset, so I LOST ALL of the work I already did.  !"

 

After you've restored your lost preset, BACK UP your presets so that in the future, you just need to IMPORT the lost preset to restore it.

 

"How do you clear or delete a snapshot ?"
 

You're always going to have Snapshots. Whether or not they do anything depends on what you configure them to do. By default, the snapshots mirror the base preset, until you configure them otherwise. If you want to wipe all the changes you've made to a snapshot, you could copy and paste over it with the base preset (Snapshot 1).

 

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YOU CAN DO THIS!

IT'S DO-ABLE!

 

It's a lot like life - nothing worthwhile is ever easy!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[zoommooz]

Thanks so much for talking me off the ledge ... so to speak ! LOL

 

I plan to try this later today. Makes a bit more sense to me now, but I will see what happens later. I'm glad you mentioned that eahc Instant Command can be assigned per preset ! I'll let you know how it goes.

 

Thanks again for all of the awesome pointers !!

 

Mark

[zoommooz]

Gear head, you're the man !! That worked like a charm. Thanks so much for all the guidance and clarifying things for me. It does make me wonder why Line 6 does not even have a clue how to address what you've explained to me. And I'm suprised they offer such littel doumentation or videos on things as powerful as INSTANT COMMANDS and Snapshots etc. Oh well, at least mines working now, so cool.

 

Out of curiority what are examples of other things the INSTANT COMMANDS could be used for ? What do you use it for ?

 

Thanks again, really appreciate everything. 

 

Mark

 

 

[rd2rk]

Glad I could help!

 

56 minutes ago, zoommooz said:

Out of curiority what are examples of other things the INSTANT COMMANDS could be used for ? What do you use it for ?

 

Truth is, I don't really use it at all, I just know how. Before I had Helix, I messed around with computer based amp sims, controlling them from an FCB1010 and a couple of Korg nanoKontrols for the amp controls. MIDI is not rocket science, nor is it intuitive. But once you get the basics, you can apply them across whatever devices or software that you encounter. The hardest part, as you've discovered, is reading the manuals, which usually treat MIDI either as an afterthought (Line6), or as Quantum Physics (certain Roland and Yamaha synths).

 

Potential uses for the MIDI implementation in Helix:

 

Imagine that you're a solo artist, combining synths, sequencers and drum machines with your live guitar performances. Using Instant Commands, you could send preset changes to your synths, and start and stop sequences on any or all of them.

 

You might use a VST Host such as Cantabile to create songs and setlists. You could, by selecting a single preset on the Helix, cause Cantabile to switch songs. Cantabile can then be programmed to send all of the Preset Changes to all of your synths and drum machines and start the song and play entire arrangements including sending further preset changes on all of the devices, including the Helix, without further intervention on your part. You could also change settings in any given device using the Helix Footswitches, even modify the pre-programmed arrangement within Cantabile (need a longer bridge to keep the people dancing? Repeat a section of the arrangement out of order? Cantabile is VERY powerful!). The only MIDI you can't send from the Helix is Sysex commands, useful for stuff that's way outside of anything I've ever contemplated.

 

A simpler and very popular use is to control MIDI enabled devices such as the many excellent Strymon effects, placing them in the Helix loops. You could set the initial Strymon presets on multiple units, then use Snapshots to change those over the course of a song!

 

There are composers who write entire symphonies using Synths and MIDI. Lighting rigs can be controlled by MIDI. Really, with MIDI, you're only limited by your imagination (and your budget!).

[zoommooz]

Awesome, thanks again! 

[Harkorama]

On 4/29/2018 at 10:56 PM, zoommooz said:

Let me start with, I got my HX Effects about 2 months ago. While I love many things about it, there are some frustrations I've had too. Especially trying to use the HX as a simple, MIDI control and effect system. When I was told about the HX it sure sounded like it could deliver on my basic needs of great effects, without built-in Amp Sims, CHECK, The ability to use the Atomic Amplifire ("AA3") Or other 3rd party Modelers as my Amp sounds, CHECK, and what I thought would act as the MIDI controller to have the AA3 change presets a.k.a different amp tone, after stepping on a preset switch on the HX. As an example if I press preset 1A, the effects on the HX are added, and via MIDI the AA3 changes to the specific amp tone. Instead of having to choose amp tones (presets) on the AA3 manually, like I do now! A pIan !

 

I realize it might make more sense to use the AA3 as the "front" control to change the amp tones first, which then via MIDI changes the HX to a certain preset or patch with specific effects. BUT, I was hoping I could set it up the other way. Meaning the HX would be the "front" a.k.a. main control to choose a preset or snapshot. So when choosing preset 1A on the HX, it might be labeled with a specific song, such as "PINK NUMB" (as in Comfortably Numb) which changes to that presets effects, and via MIDI changes the AA3 to a certain preset (amp tone/ sound). to match.

 

I did find out if I use the AA3 at the "front", it can ONLY send preset 1 to preset 1 or preset 17 to preset 17 on the HX or other MIDI device. So you have to have BOTH of the preset locations on the HX and AA3 lined up with the correct amp tone and appropriate effects in the HX for this to work. Not a big problem, but certainly less than ideal in my mind. The other issue is I MUCH prefer to use the nice bright, big labels on the HX to see preset names. The AA3 has a very small display making it MUCH harder to read especially live.

 

I also read something today on the Line 6 forum that MIDI changes can ONLY be sent on a particular foot switch in STOMP BOX mode ONLY. BUT, what I'm trying to do is have each preset or snapshot as a specific sounds or group of songs, be able to step on a preset, have it update the HX with effects in that preset and change the amp tone on the AA3.

 

Let me also say, I get the basics of MIDI but I am far from an expert too. Anyone have any great ideas as to how to solve this. I am really disappointed that the HX is so far not able to deliver on the MIDI and routing capabilities I was hoping !

 

If you have any good ideas as to how to solve this I would surely appreciate it.

 

Thanks.

 

Hi! Did you connect the HX to the AA3 in 4CM? I've read a few posts with people complaining the lack of "quality" (mainly with distortions) when they connect HX - AA3. what are your comments on the subject?

 

Thanks

 

 

[DodgeGB]

I'm not the OP but I'm running my HX effects in 4CM with an AA6.  It's excellent.  

 

You can't run any old drive into any old amp of course, but that's true in the virtual or real worlds.  I'm very happy with it.  My amp's heading for special use only cupboard, and my other pedals and ES5 will be hitting reverb soon.

[zoommooz]

On 6/3/2018 at 2:06 PM, DodgeGB said:

I'm not the OP but I'm running my HX effects in 4CM with an AA6.  It's excellent.  

 

You can't run any old drive into any old amp of course, but that's true in the virtual or real worlds.  I'm very happy with it.  My amp's heading for special use only cupboard, and my other pedals and ES5 will be hitting reverb soon.

 

I tried running the HX and AA3 using the 4CM as well but I was not able to get it sounding right. However, I've learned a couple of tricks since I first bought the HX so I may try it again. I have been running the HX to the AA3 using the effects loop to the AA3 and it works nicely! 

 

I also finally got things set up so using presets in the HX I send MIDI info to the AA3 so each time I press a preset on the HX the "amp sound" is changed in the AA3 automatically. (This way while at a gig, I can use the nice big display of the HX instead of the crappy small display of the AA3)  In other words the HX Effects is the main  HUB / Contoller for the my rig!

 

So lets say I have a preset labled "Crucnhy Deluxe" in preset 1. When pressed it changes the AA3 to the Deluxe Amp sound I created, and now gives me all the effects I use for the preset on the HX as well.

[Harkorama]

I finally connected my AA3 to my new HX, unfortunately it looks like my HX is making a lot of hiss in 4CM. I've also tried connecting to AA3 loop fx and got the same result. Now I have it connected in series: HX -> AA3 -> amp fx return and it's working fine.

[DodgeGB]

I've got my AA3 set up 4cm and there's no hiss.  Do you want me to check out my routing against yours?