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ts14064shred

Gemini II Honk

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I have read enough replies on this forum about FRFR, that I know it's a very touchy subject to say the least. So sorry if this riles anyone.

I've owned my Gemini  II now for over 2 years, but still can't tame the mid range "honk" from it, with my Helix running straight into it using 

the XLR stereo outputs. I've also used every EQ in the Helix in every position, to find and kill this honk frequency, but with no success. I've also tried sweeping the Gemini II Empower knob,

still can't get rid of it. I've tried dozens of IR's (both internal and purchased), different Helix amps, no amps, no IR's, just  Helix Pre-amps, etc, still honky honkiness. The Gemini seems most honky with OwnHammer IR's. It also seems tamed a bit with just running a Preamp, or running no IR at all. For those of you not familiar with the "honk" I describe, it seems to resemble the tone you get from an actual Leslie driver (without the spin), or the odd honk you might get from running 2 preamps into a power amp at the same time, as they compete poorly with each other. I know how to tame the lows and highs using FRFR, but for the life of me, I can't get rid of the tone killing mid honk my Gemini II consistently produces.

Does anyone have a high gain Helix patch just using the Gemini II that they think sounds killer they can share with me. (It would be nice if the CustomTone patches would define what they were played through). If it contains an IR I haven't purchased already, I'll purchase it. Thank you   

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1 hour ago, ts14064shred said:

I have read enough replies on this forum about FRFR, that I know it's a very touchy subject to say the least. So sorry if this riles anyone.

I've owned my Gemini  II now for over 2 years, but still can't tame the mid range "honk" from it, with my Helix running straight into it using 

the XLR stereo outputs. I've also used every EQ in the Helix in every position, to find and kill this honk frequency, but with no success. I've also tried sweeping the Gemini II Empower knob, still can't get rid of it.

 

Did you try throwing in a Cali Q Graphic block after the IR and just cutting 750Hz by -2db or more?

 

Sorry, no Gemini II, but I just got my Line 6 Powercab Plus (same Eminence Beta 12CX coax speaker with different cone and HF driver) today and loaded in my Ownhammer CaliforniaDuo pack.   I think I noticed something similar.  The Cali Q helped.

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Had the exact same problem years ago with a Boogie 2x12...was passable at low volumes, but cranked...nothing but mids. Didn't matter what I ran through it, or how much EQ fiddling I did. Sounded like I was playing through a giant nose. Finally de-honked the rig by ditching the damn thing and going back to a Marshall 4x12.

 

You won't necessarily get along with every piece of gear you buy... if its been 2 years, I'd say it's time for it to go. There are other options...

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It depends on how your ear defines "honkiness", for me that's right around 1.4KHz, and it's actually not un-common to encounter those every once a while. Try use a parametric EQ cut at 1.4KHz with Q-size=4, and reduce gain by -2 ~ -6 to see how the "honkiness" responds :-)

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Perhaps a reason for the problem:

Most people look at speakers only regarding frequency response, perhaps distortion and dissipation.

A simple Honk frequency in this case is easy to eliminate by an parametric EQ, still easier when you have measuring equippment.

 

But there is more behind the curves. Sometimes a honk is just a level/frequency Honk, sometimes, there is not only more level at this frequency but also more time. Even if you eliminate the Honk by EQ, the cone/speaker will continue to swing longer at this frequency than at other frequencies, so it is sending more energy to the room and to your ears. This cannot be eliminated by EQs or other electronics, just by changing the speaker. Sometimes it helps to overcompensate this frequency by EQ, but tis is'nt the same as a linear response with equal decay.

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A parametric should take care of honk.... keep your Q setting as narrow as possible to solve the problem without damaging frequencies around it.

 

12 hours ago, ts14064shred said:

I've also tried sweeping the Gemini II Empower knob

 

Tried sweeping? As in your not sure what to do with this knob? In my experience, if this is too far to the "cab" side and your are trying to run an IR through it, that will create honk. 

 

Set this to FLAT when you want to use the speaker simulation from the Helix... then adjust the tone on the Helix

If you want to use it as an FRFR cabinet, you need to fine tune the position of that knob. It is likely just attenuating the tweeter... on "flat" is is full, on "cab" it would be completely off. What I would do (FWIW) is play a nice sounding CD through the speaker and adjust that knob until the high end sounds best - then mark that spot or at least take a photo of it. That setting would be your "FRFR" setting tweaked to your taste. Now leave it there and setup your Helix including any IR's or cab sims.

 

Set this to CAB for the "Amp in the Room" sound...

If you want the "amp in a room" sound... dial it back to cab so it is just the speaker, then turn all speaker emulation (including IR's) off on the Helix.

Generally speaking, any speaker simulation is meant to work (as designed) with an FRFR speaker.

 

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