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jrocksout

Helix LT vs Ax8

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Greetings!

Life at it's current junction seems to be pointing towards going to a digital all-in-one box. The Helix LT and Ax8 are in my price range (the full helix is out, sadly) and the two contenders for purchase. I'm not in a position to buy both and keep the one I like. I've tried an LT and it was quite fun for the 20 minutes I had with it, though I didn't get too much into exploring the options and tweaking and what not. I've never tried and Ax8 or any fractal gear.

So why am I bringing this up?

While it's subjective, in most of the comparisons I've listened to the Ax8 sounds better to me and I feel somewhat concerned in my mind that if I go with the less expensive LT, I'll end up being disappointed. Part of me wants to get the LT because of simplicity of use and having a expression pedal already there and because I can get it for less than the Ax8 (especially since I may even be able to haggle a retailer down more than $999). Cost is a factor since I have a young family and not a lot of income for now. But again I have concerns of being disappointed. 

So now's your chance! Reassure me that I'd be just as happy with the LT as the Ax8.

If it helps, I like clean/ambient-ish stuff, rock, and metal (but not so much djent).

Thank you kindly for your responses!
 

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The main difference between modelers in this range is the proficiency of the person using it to able to precisely dial in the tones he wants.  Technically both will do whatever you want.  You just have to know what you're dong and know how you want to set your rig up to get the sound you want.  Neither of them is simply plug in and play.  Both require you to be knowledgeable about how to build a signal chain.  If you know what you're doing both will sound great.  If you don't know what  you're doing both will sound bad.

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Which brings us to the non-audio pros and cons. HxLT has an expression pedal and is less expensive.

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I switched from AXE FX II + FCB 1010 to Helix LT and that was the best decision I've made in the past years (more info in this topic). Axe sounds great, if you know what you want. Same with the Helix, sound great if you know how to dial in tones. 

 

For me, Fractals overcomplicated tone shaping process and the too many options was a big downside which killed my creativity. There might be less options in Helix, but I don't feel like it's a compromise. 

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For clean/ambient and rock tones, I expect the Helix (LT or otherwise) will give you better results. The Helix effect range is great and I'm led to believe that you can use more blocks in one patch than you can with the AX8. You also get more power to vary things within a patch with Helix Snapshots than AX8 scenes offer.

 

For metal tones, the AX8 has a better reputation and the comparison clips online favour Fractal's offering. Some would argue that those people are more experienced with dialling in Fractal gear so it's not a fair comparison. But others would point out that the AX8 has a ton of high gain amps compared to the rather anaemic showing in the Helix which seems somewhat more Marshall-heavy than previous Line 6 offerings. This may or may not matter to you.

 

On balance, I'd recommend the Helix LT.

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18 hours ago, jrocksout said:

Greetings!

Life at it's current junction seems to be pointing towards going to a digital all-in-one box. The Helix LT and Ax8 are in my price range (the full helix is out, sadly) and the two contenders for purchase. I'm not in a position to buy both and keep the one I like. I've tried an LT and it was quite fun for the 20 minutes I had with it, though I didn't get too much into exploring the options and tweaking and what not. I've never tried and Ax8 or any fractal gear.

So why am I bringing this up?

While it's subjective, in most of the comparisons I've listened to the Ax8 sounds better to me and I feel somewhat concerned in my mind that if I go with the less expensive LT, I'll end up being disappointed. Part of me wants to get the LT because of simplicity of use and having a expression pedal already there and because I can get it for less than the Ax8 (especially since I may even be able to haggle a retailer down more than $999). Cost is a factor since I have a young family and not a lot of income for now. But again I have concerns of being disappointed. 

So now's your chance! Reassure me that I'd be just as happy with the LT as the Ax8.

If it helps, I like clean/ambient-ish stuff, rock, and metal (but not so much djent).

Thank you kindly for your responses!
 

 

As someone who has had a Helix and AX8 MULTIPLE times, I went with Helix ultimately and never looked back. I also primarily play the same genres as you.

 

First, online clips tell you nothing and online "versus" discussions just sow doubt. The clips are just a snapshot of one person dialing in one amp with one IR as of one particular firnware. 

 

Second, usability made a huge difference to me. While Fractal does offer a gazillion parameters and amp models to choose from, I personally found it less than optimal to set up and tweak with. Helix inspired me to write and play a lot more. 

 

Finally, for high gain, Helix has some exclusive amp models - the Badonk, Archon and the Cartographer, in particular - that just do it for me in a way that Fractal never did. I love the Friedman too, but everyone wears that tone out these days. If you have any remaining doubt, check k out the Helix videos from Sonic Drive Studios on YouTube.

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Some great responses! I really appreciated the personal perspectives shared and the links and references to things to check out! I've thought about the Fractal being a "death" by too much to adjust/play with and that has been confirmed here as a real thing. Thanks again for all the helpful feedback!   

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On 5/27/2018 at 5:31 AM, mikah912 said:

 

As someone who has had a Helix and AX8 MULTIPLE times, I went with Helix ultimately and never looked back. I also primarily play the same genres as you.

 

First, online clips tell you nothing and online "versus" discussions just sow doubt. The clips are just a snapshot of one person dialing in one amp with one IR as of one particular firnware. 

 

Second, usability made a huge difference to me. While Fractal does offer a gazillion parameters and amp models to choose from, I personally found it less than optimal to set up and tweak with. Helix inspired me to write and play a lot more. 

 

Finally, for high gain, Helix has some exclusive amp models - the Badonk, Archon and the Cartographer, in particular - that just do it for me in a way that Fractal never did. I love the Friedman too, but everyone wears that tone out these days. If you have any remaining doubt, check k out the Helix videos from Sonic Drive Studios on YouTube.

This is great advice.. I too have had 2 AX8 models while owning my Helix LT (thought I was missing something in the Helix)..AX* does have a slightly more "liquid" feel (VERY slight)..The key here is Custom IRs..Ownhammer (just liek SonicDrive Studios uses, of course there are others) was a game changer /field leveler. I became very good at editing Ax8 tto, but just found the differences between the 2  tonally were very little, AND the UI on the Helix alone is one of the most inspiring things I've experienced. Either unit can achieve AMAZING and inspiring tones, Helix has a nicer onborad screen, oh yeah, and SNAPSHOTS!!!!!!  Presets within a preset to turn on and off anythign you want..possibilities are crazy with Helix. one more thing, Helix and Helix LT have the exact same processor and tones, period. Just a few less ins & outs (still more than you could ever need) ANyone telling you one blows the other away (AXe vs Helix) is giving their opinion. I have recorded tracks that none of the guys in both of my bands could tell the difference between the 2.  

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That's very encouraging to hear as well. I'm not really in a financial position to "mess up" my choice and I have wanted to get the LT since it's more affordable and has the expression pedal, but just had concerns from the sound clips I've heard. Glad to hear everyone's experiences and the fact that people have switched from the AX8 to the Helix is not a small thing to me. Maybe I've been hearing too much youtube koolaid surrounding the alternatives to the Helix and have been believing it...  

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42 minutes ago, jrocksout said:

Maybe I've been hearing too much youtube koolaid surrounding the alternatives to the Helix and have been believing it...

 

There's an awful lot of it about.

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39 minutes ago, jrocksout said:

That's very encouraging to hear as well. I'm not really in a financial position to "mess up" my choice and I have wanted to get the LT since it's more affordable and has the expression pedal, but just had concerns from the sound clips I've heard. Glad to hear everyone's experiences and the fact that people have switched from the AX8 to the Helix is not a small thing to me. Maybe I've been hearing too much youtube koolaid surrounding the alternatives to the Helix and have been believing it...  

 

Yep, there are lots of bad Helix sounds online, but again, if you know what you're after only your imagination is the limit. Check Jason Sadites videos and reviews, he should get an endorsment from L6 for the effort and quality he put in to the explanation. Sonic Drive Studios is another great example.

 

If you want to play safe, try out Helix Native, I believe it's free for 14 days. Try to find some good tones @ customtone, if you'll like it, get the LT ;)

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18 hours ago, funkyou86 said:

Yep, there are lots of bad Helix sounds online, but again, if you know what you're after only your imagination is the limit. Check Jason Sadites videos and reviews, he should get an endorsment from L6 for the effort and quality he put in to the explanation. Sonic Drive Studios is another great example.

 

If you want to play safe, try out Helix Native, I believe it's free for 14 days. Try to find some good tones @ customtone, if you'll like it, get the LT ;)

I couldn't have said it better myself.. You will probably not find the stock presets inspiring (or stock cabs..)  Ownhammer IR's for sure (Just pick 1 pack and you get like 150 various mic'd up cab souns that are fantastic)..I also suggest Freman or Choptones (they sell custom presets)..for aroiund $25 you can get some KILLER and very usable custom presets from these guys..I did both and tweek on those to my liking... Just awesome. Native Vibe is a good idea (uses same exact sounds as Helix) but you don't get to experience the UI on the Helix, which is pure delight.  Damn..I'm gonna go p[lay on mine right now!

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I don't find stock cabs unusable, but OH's great, 3Sigma Audio as well (i'm using their Zilla pack for my metal patches). Also, you'll need a good FRFR speaker, or all of your patches will sound bad :) 

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58 minutes ago, SteinweinerMkIV said:

You will probably not find the stock presets inspiring (or stock cabs..) 

 

The 'HX cabs are crap' meme is unhelpful, really, because they're actually fine. IRs offer more, not necessarily better. Maybe it would be preferable to let people decide for themselves what works best for them rather than preload them with the idea that IRs are a must-have for good tones.

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2 minutes ago, BBD_123 said:

The 'HX cabs are crap' meme is unhelpful, really, because they're actually fine. IRs offer more, not necessarily better. Maybe it would be preferable to let people decide for themselves what works best for them rather than preload them with the idea that IRs are a must-have for good tones.

Ahhh...OK..let's put it this way, most users, and it's most by a pretty good margin, that complain about Helix being buzzy and fizzy sounding, end up trying 3rd party IR's , which take the sound of Helix to a whole other level...I can get the stock cabs to sound "ok", but when you load up a custom IR (a good one, as mentioned above), way more 3d and realistic sounding and feeling.  I have been working with AX8 and Helix now for about a year, and have gone through every up & down experiencing these units.  I have many friends that use Helix, all different styles, only 1 person likes Helix stock... My point is that an extra $20-25 goes a LONG way...Like having a great car, but being able to add air conditioned seats,,,,Ha! If you are fine with Helix the way it is (which is fine) then no need, BUT there is a reason it has the ability to load up 3rd party IR's. Simply my opinion trying to save someone a lot of frustration in case they are not enammered with plugging into a Helix for the first time.

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14 minutes ago, SteinweinerMkIV said:

Ahhh...OK..let's put it this way, most users, and it's most by a pretty good margin, that complain about Helix being buzzy and fizzy sounding,

 

...have too much gain in their signal and also haven't dialled in the high cut properly :-)

 

What worries me is that these common complaints are better addressed initially by learning to dial in the patch better rather than by a major tonal change in the cab block. Once you've got the basics nice and tight, then it may be time to make an informed foray into IRs. That said, and to be clear about this, of course there are some fantastic IRs out there that are very much keepers once found. BUT, they will always sound even better if the rest of the patch is set up optimally - and shortcutting straight to IRs won't teach you how to do that.

 

 

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To me the biggest difference can be summed up in one word: Variax. 

 

I’m old school. I Still have a Les Paul, Strat Deluxe and Fender Showman amp. But a JTV-69S with Daytona SVL pickups and Helix is by far my preferred gigging rig. Open tunings and acoustic tones are a must. Variax delivers.

 

Helix provides the Variax integration I need for gigging.

 

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Consider simplicity of use, especially when playing live. With the LT (and Floor) if you hear something that needs to be tweaked, it takes just a few seconds once you get the hang of it. You can even do it with your feet with Pedal Edit Mode, but I am not that talented. I can barely chew gum and play a major scale, much less tweak parameters with my feet while I play. 

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On 5/30/2018 at 9:00 AM, BBD_123 said:

 

...have too much gain in their signal

 

I personally am a classic rock player...but a LOT of players use a lot of gain. And a lot of amps on the market ARE high gain. 
I like a lot of gain on my leads and I don't like to use distortion pedals in front of the amp. So I always used relatively high gain heads (my last "real" amp was a Bogner Ecstasy 101B).
I currently use the Archon model in the Helix for my crunch and lead tones.

I would think that if a player wanted insane amounts of gain then they SHOULD be able to achieve that without having to worry about fizziness. 
I've never used an Axe unit...but the thing I hear about them when reading forums is that it does not have that fizziness in the high gain amps. 

I've said it for a long time...Line 6 should get in there and make these models sound like an amp. Get rid of all that fizz on the top. 
Yes, I can (and have) tweaked it out of my sound. But why did I have to do that? And by doing high cuts...I always feel that I'm "losing" something up top other than just "fizz". 

Just seems stupid to create a modeler and have it sound that way. From what I've read...Fractal didn't make that mistake. 

Don't get me wrong...I love my Helix. But the amps themselves should be the main event in a modeler. No need for "Fizz" in a high gain amp. 
And if Line 6 thinks there should be "fizz"...then they should have a "fizz" parameter that is set to "0" by default so players can add in fizziness to their taste (bet NOBODY ever would).

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10 hours ago, robbieb61 said:

I personally am a classic rock player...but a LOT of players use a lot of gain. And a lot of amps on the market ARE high gain. 
I like a lot of gain on my leads and I don't like to use distortion pedals in front of the amp. So I always used relatively high gain heads (my last "real" amp was a Bogner Ecstasy 101B).
I currently use the Archon model in the Helix for my crunch and lead tones.

I would think that if a player wanted insane amounts of gain then they SHOULD be able to achieve that without having to worry about fizziness. 
I've never used an Axe unit...but the thing I hear about them when reading forums is that it does not have that fizziness in the high gain amps. 

I've said it for a long time...Line 6 should get in there and make these models sound like an amp. Get rid of all that fizz on the top. 
Yes, I can (and have) tweaked it out of my sound. But why did I have to do that? And by doing high cuts...I always feel that I'm "losing" something up top other than just "fizz". 

Just seems stupid to create a modeler and have it sound that way. From what I've read...Fractal didn't make that mistake. 

Don't get me wrong...I love my Helix. But the amps themselves should be the main event in a modeler. No need for "Fizz" in a high gain amp. 
And if Line 6 thinks there should be "fizz"...then they should have a "fizz" parameter that is set to "0" by default so players can add in fizziness to their taste (bet NOBODY ever would).

take a look at this post (from a fractal moderator) on the fractal forum ,https://forum.fractalaudio.com/threads/low-cut-high-cut.119906/  they too use high cuts to get rid of fizz and harshness in the high end when using frfr.

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The fizz is the result of not setting the patch up right. You can set up excessive (unrealistic in real-world) levels of gain very easily and it will sound crap. You can not cut the HF quite right and it will sound crap. The fault isn't in the unit.

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6 hours ago, MGblade said:

take a look at this post (from a fractal moderator) on the fractal forum ,https://forum.fractalaudio.com/threads/low-cut-high-cut.119906/  they too use high cuts to get rid of fizz and harshness in the high end when using frfr.

 

This was a worthy read, thanks for the link. It is validating in the way of a second opinion to see many of the same recommendations regarding low/high cuts on the Fractal forum as we see on the Helix forum. Particularly in reference to using an FRFR whether it is FOH or stage monitor. One thing that strikes me as I read through the Fractal posts is that a nice feature to add to the Helix would be the ability to change the slope setting of the EQ cuts, e.g. 6db, 12db, etc.  - something that has been suggested on the forum many times. There are different slopes available now however depending on whether you use cab, parametric, or crossover cuts.

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3 hours ago, BBD_123 said:

The fizz is the result of not setting the patch up right. You can set up excessive (unrealistic in real-world) levels of gain very easily and it will sound crap. You can not cut the HF quite right and it will sound crap. The fault isn't in the unit.

You can do that on an amp too....For instance if you turn the drive all the way up and turn the mids all the way down with highs + bass dimed and keep the master very low.

But my point was: For those of us who use plenty of mids and run the master at 5 and above...I should be able to set the drive on 7 the bass on 5, the mids on 7 and the treble on 5 without having to make a bunch of high cuts (just like I always have on a real amplifier).

By making a big high cut on my IR I'm able to get the sound I want...but my gut feeling always tells me that I'm losing upper harmonics when I use high cuts. Which may be why there has been such a bad rap about Line 6 not having amps modeled as well as the competition.
We have to be losing SOMETHING other than "fizz" when we make these cuts. 

I SHOULD be able to pick a high gain amp, add a cabinet...and play with the above tonal settings without "fizz".  But instead I'm doing high cuts at 5.6k  
Just can't help but feel like I'm losing some richness and texture by doing that. If not for that sizzling fizz...the amp models sound great.  
THEN, we have to start cutting highs and end up with a somewhat compromised tone.

This is just my opinion. I do love the Helix and gig with it every week (playing tonight right here in Las Vegas). And I DO achieve a great tone. Have had many other professional musicians tell me that I have the best tone they have ever heard through the P.A.
But it does seem that having "Fizz" in your product that has to be tweaked out is kind of defeating the purpose when trying to sell the unit at a music store.

I would think that at LEAST Line 6 would create some higher gain presets that were already tweaked with high cuts to get rid of that fizz so that a person trying the unit out in the music store would be able to hear it sounding good. AND have a preset with which to see and hear how the high cuts can work.

Or...just get rid of the damn fizz when you model the amp. lol

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Reading that link to the Fractal Forum...and right off the bat the initial post is just wrong.
The guy is talking about why guitar cabs are mic'ed up close in the studio and says: "This is done primarily for isolation reasons."
WRONG.
In the studio there is no need for "isolation".

The reason guitar cabs in a live situation have generally always had an SM57 mic right up on the cabinet grill cloth is because that microphone is designed for close up use.
Take most any microphone and put it right up to your mouth and speak. Then move it back about six inches and speak again. You will just have lost a ton of volume and pretty much all the low end.
THAT is why, when using a dynamic instrument microphone...you always get as close as you can with placement. It's the way the microphone works. 
Just wanted to rant about that for a second..."isolation reasons"...has this guy ever BEEN in a recording studio? lol

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3 minutes ago, robbieb61 said:

Reading that link to the Fractal Forum...and right off the bat the initial post is just wrong.
The guy is talking about why guitar cabs are mic'ed up close in the studio and says: "This is done primarily for isolation reasons."
WRONG.
In the studio there is no need for "isolation".

The reason guitar cabs in a live situation have generally always had an SM57 mic right up on the cabinet grill cloth is because that microphone is designed for close up use.
Take most any microphone and put it right up to your mouth and speak. Then move it back about six inches and speak again. You will just have lost a ton of volume and pretty much all the low end.
THAT is why, when using a dynamic instrument microphone...you always get as close as you can with placement. It's the way the microphone works. 
Just wanted to rant about that for a second..."isolation reasons"...has this guy ever BEEN in a recording studio? lol

 

Lol... "That guy" is Cliff Chase. The founder and brains behind Fractal and the Axe-FX. I'm willing to believe he knows a thing or two about what he's talking about...

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5 minutes ago, robbieb61 said:

Reading that link to the Fractal Forum...and right off the bat the initial post is just wrong.
The guy is talking about why guitar cabs are mic'ed up close in the studio and says: "This is done primarily for isolation reasons."
WRONG.
In the studio there is no need for "isolation".

The reason guitar cabs in a live situation have generally always had an SM57 mic right up on the cabinet grill cloth is because that microphone is designed for close up use.
Take most any microphone and put it right up to your mouth and speak. Then move it back about six inches and speak again. You will just have lost a ton of volume and pretty much all the low end.
THAT is why, when using a dynamic instrument microphone...you always get as close as you can with placement. It's the way the microphone works. 
Just wanted to rant about that for a second..."isolation reasons"...has this guy ever BEEN in a recording studio? lol

 

I agree that the "proximity effect" where mics like an SM57 lose low end as the sound source is moved away from them can be instrumental in how they are placed. However, depending on how you are recording in the studio there can still be a need for isolation, particularly if you are going for a "live" feel that some producers prefer where you have the whole band being recorded together, at least initially, before any layering of tracks where you may just have the musicians playing a part individually.

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Yeah, I suppose that if you record everyone at once instead of laying down tracks separately that COULD be a factor. But most studios have everyone wearing headphones and PHYSICALLY isolated. And when I've done studio work...it was almost always laying down the track by myself.
And the couple of times I was in a studio doing recording for promo for the band that has us recording together like a "live" band...my amp was still in an isolation booth. 
Once I even recorded using one of those "isolation cabinets" which have the entire cab enclosed on all four sides with the microphone built inside the cab and an XLR out to the board. 

Never, ever thought of mic'ing technique having "isolation reasons" as the primary reason for close mic'ing a guitar amp...because it just isn't. 
And that's what that guy said in his opening statement. He said that amps are close mic'ed PRIMARILY for isolation reasons. 
Just not true at all.

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1 hour ago, robbieb61 said:

By making a big high cut on my IR I'm able to get the sound I want...

 

Then don't make cuts in the cab / IR block! Use an EQ block - just the basic Low High cut EQ is fine. The frequency slope in the cab / IR block is very shallow compared to the EQ block so you end up pruning your tone if you make cuts in the cab block. [EDIT: actually, I was mistaken about the slope, but not that the EQ and Cab/IR blocks are functionally different - see the linked Ben Adrian quote below]

 

 

1 hour ago, robbieb61 said:

We have to be losing SOMETHING other than "fizz" when we make these cuts.

 

Not necessarily. Guitar tone mostly happens below ~8kHz and fizz happens above 8kHz. And if you make your cuts with an EQ rather than in the cab block, you should be okay.

 

 

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There's a really good post by 'benifin' at TGP about the advantages of using the EQ block, complete with audio clips. Rather than repeat what was said, here's the link. Hope this helps.

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5 minutes ago, BBD_123 said:

There's a really good post by 'benifin' at TGP about the advantages of using the EQ block, complete with audio clips. Rather than repeat what was said, here's the link. Hope this helps.

 

Also a good read and goes to the heart of the discussion about whether to use cuts in the cab block or in an EQ block. Didn't read the entire thread but in addition to any differences in the curve between cab and EQ cuts there was also a comment a while back from Line6 staff that the EQ blocks had some kind of adjustment to make the cut sound more "musical". No specifics on that but I will take them at their word.

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23 minutes ago, HonestOpinion said:

Didn't read the entire thread but in addition to any differences in the curve between cab and EQ cuts there was also a comment a while back from Line6 staff that the EQ blocks had some kind of adjustment to make the cut sound more "musical". No specifics on that but I will take them at their word.

 

This? Ben Adrian:
https://www.thegearpage.net/board/index.php?posts/21490814/

 

Quote

Just opened the code to check. The crossover filters are 4th order (4 pole) low pass and high pass. This is 24 dB per octave. IMO, this would be considered a pretty hard filter.

 

Cabs and IRs have 2nd order (2 pole), which is 12 dB per octave. I'd consider this a medium cutoff.

EQs have a 2nd order (2 pole) filter for the models which contain the Low and High Cut parameters, but there is also a little extra voicing thrown in with an additional filter to make it more musical.

 

 

On the EQ thread, 'Guitardave' said (my bold):
https://www.thegearpage.net/board/index.php?posts/24647474/

 

Quote

When I plug into an amp - most of the options are already baked in. Modelers introduce a lot of flexibility - but it means some level of complexity. And the single biggest issue IMHO is trying to deal with amplifying the modelers. It sucks hearing all that top end from a tweeter in the typical PA/FRFR monitor. Guitar speakers and cabs sound normal to hear your guitar tone. It takes work to get ANYTHING sounding good thru the PA system. That's what 1/2 these posts are about - trying to tweak things to make a hi-fi speaker sound like you are using a guitar cabinet.

 

Start the process by figuring out what you are going to play it thru. Crappy playback solution means crappy tone. I highly recommend starting out by using a modeler with an amp with an effects loop, or at the very least an actual guitar cabinet. You are limited by the speaker/cab choice but it's super simple to get things sounding normal.

 [...]

 If you decide to run it thru something other than a guitar amp - then you need to prepare yourself for the learning curve associated with taming that top end. That's what this thread is about - and when you simplify things they are really saying to use an EQ to cut the top end down.

All of this applies no matter what modeler you use. Ignore the pissing matches, pick whichever you think will work best for you and spend some time. It's far less about the modeler than getting comfortable with how they all work.

 

 

Wise words.

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I originally was using the parametric EQ instead of the cut in the IR. 
But, I wasn't happy with it and seem to get a warmer tone with the cut in the IR over the parametric.

I may revisit this later in the week when I have a night off from gigging. What is the recommendation on which EQ to use for the cuts? And where should it be placed? 
Before the IR? After the IR? At the very end of the chain? (I have effects like delay and reverb at the very end AFTER the IR...so my cuts are happening in the IR and then going out to the reverb and delay and then the output)

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20 minutes ago, robbieb61 said:

I originally was using the parametric EQ instead of the cut in the IR. 
But, I wasn't happy with it and seem to get a warmer tone with the cut in the IR over the parametric.

I may revisit this later in the week when I have a night off from gigging. What is the recommendation on which EQ to use for the cuts? And where should it be placed? 
Before the IR? After the IR? At the very end of the chain? (I have effects like delay and reverb at the very end AFTER the IR...so my cuts are happening in the IR and then going out to the reverb and delay and then the output)

 

Onions vary... some say the cuts in the para EQ have a steeper slope than those in the cabs or IR's.

 

Same thing for placement... I've put hi/low cuts as the last thing in the chain, between the cab and various FX, and used the cab cuts as well. A/B-ing them solo,  you might notice a subtle difference at best...but in a mix, I seriously doubt I could tell the difference if my life depended on it. 

 

In the end, its all subjective...wherever you like it best is where it belongs. 

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4 minutes ago, cruisinon2 said:

In the end, its all subjective...wherever you like it best is where it belongs. 

 

^^^^ This.

 

I often use the basic Low High cut EQ block. Sometimes the PEQ. Whatever sounds right. The key thing is to dial in the cuts with your ears rather than based on frequencies you have used in the past.

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I suppose I should probably just leave what I have then. I'm getting a great tone with it.
Just can't help that nagging feeling that I'm still "losing" something in the upper harmonic content of the tone by using those high cuts. 
I guess that will always be something in the back of my mind.

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On 5/31/2018 at 6:39 PM, robbieb61 said:

Yes, I can (and have) tweaked it out of my sound. But why did I have to do that? And by doing high cuts...I always feel that I'm "losing" something up top other than just "fizz".

 

Because it s lot easier to get rid of unwanted high end then it is to get it back when its alaready gone. I like having the option.

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15 hours ago, amsdenj said:

 

Because it s lot easier to get rid of unwanted high end then it is to get it back when its alaready gone. I like having the option.

I hear ya...BUT, still...having "fizz" in the highs is the real problem. Not just high end itself. Adjusting the high end should be the function of the tone controls on the amp in my humble opinion.
To me, it seems like Line 6 is putting too MUCH high end on the amp in the first place.

And as I said earlier...they could at least make a few presets for the higher gain amps that have the precise cuts needed to remove fizz so that users would have a great starting point to create their tones without having to spend time searching online for answers and then more time trying to get it right.

Seems to me that we are having to be kind of heavy handed in our method of getting rid of fizz by zapping all the high end out out. Like we aren't just getting the "fizz", but also some of the frequencies that add texture to the high end.
For instance...I don't use ANY cuts on my clean sounds. Don't need to. And when I do...they lose that "shimmer" even though the frequency being cut theoretically shouldn't affect it.

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23 minutes ago, robbieb61 said:

To me, it seems like Line 6 is putting too MUCH high end on the amp in the first place.

 

Alternatively, the high end fizz is coming from the choice of microphone and what you hear is high fidelity modeling of what the equivalent real-world signal chain would sound like unless you make a high cut and / or alter the mic setup. Sometimes it's helpful to think about Helix like a recording engineer might, rather than strictly as a guitarist. What may seem like 'faults' turn out to be the consequences of accurate modeling of the original elements of the signal chain, right up to the mic in front of the cabinet.

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