summerdreams Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 Hi, after 3 month of tweaking the hell out of my pod hd400 I still dont get any sounds I really adore...I must say I am gear head (tubes) and used to tweaking... I also own modelling units from Boss (Gt-8) and Vox (tonelab LE) where I have no problems to dial in a good sound in minutes that even cuts through the mix... After trying and trying I came to the conclusion: You cant get a decent sound just with the "amp knobs" ! It takes heavy ADDITIONAL EQing to get half rid of that crappy pod 2.0 Mickey Mouse flavour which I hated from day one. I use it in my home studio with mixer/ studio monitors...any tipps for an approach with that setup? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spaceatl Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 the defaults on some of the amp models are not good...The main thing to look at are the DEP (Deep Edit Parameters) on the amp and cab...Usually it's the Master parameter that is the main culprit...way too high most of the time...A real JCM800 sounds like crap dimed and the default is 100%...Then there is the RES LVL in the cab parms...basically, that's the FIZZ control...That is generally 0% on all of my patches...Usually, just getting the master DEP down to a realistic level and setting RES LVL to 0% gets most of the garbage out...I never really needed any additional EQ...Some other things that help are the HPF in the cab deps...some cabs have a ton of low end and getting that to 82 Hz for standard tuning really helps center the amp tonestack which changes how the mid works...This is different on every model and is quite close to the real amps, so you have to kinda approach each model cab combination a bit different...anyhoo, that's my 2 cents... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
summerdreams Posted May 31, 2018 Author Share Posted May 31, 2018 11 hours ago, hurghanico said: AFAIK the default value of the master volume parameter of the JCM800 HD amp model by Line6 has never been different than 50%.. (I don't know about the HD400, but I'm sure about the HD500) However regarding the master volume parameter it would be interesting to read what the beta-tester and Line6 expert Karl Houseknecht said below here (assuming that his sources of information are reliable) ______________________________________ @ OP Unless you connect the POD to a real power-amp+cab in which case the full system behaves and should be considered as a normal real tube amp, in all other cases when you monitor the POD sound through headphones and/or flat response systems, you should think as a sound engineer, which operates on the signal coming from a mic (modeled) placed in front of the amp (modeled), and uses faders, EQ controls, compressors, etc. etc. to make the mic-ed amp tone sound good but mainly to make it sit well in the mix with the other instruments.. So, using some EQ-ing on close mic-ed signals (like the ones modeled) which unfortunately contain also some boosted and unpleasant frequencies due to the proximity of the mic (which would not so noticeable when hearing a real amp in the room at a distance), is not a bad thing neither unusual.. Regarding the HD amp models quality, I like them but personally I think that on several of them, the modeled bass response is oversized and affect a lot also the amp mid and high bands response often in a bad way, and that's not a good thing since the mids and highs need to be heard clearly and well balanced for a good amp tone, and if they are squeazed by a gigantic bass you might end up by turning them on full trying to compensate, which thing doesn't always give good results.. If you have the amp drive/gain around 10-20%, the default bass setting may work decently, but as the drive/gain goes near the noon zone and/or over, the bass control needs to be lowered a lot, even at zero,.. try with the Gibson amp and or the VOX AC-15, and with others as well.. don't worry, with the POD you'll still have enough bass content for ages even with the control at zero.. I wrote a post about it in my forum/blog: The Achilles' heel of the HD amp models - COOL TRICK n.2 Personally with no-master volume amps modeled, I prefer to leave the master volume at 100%, since their character and dynamics live almost completely into their power-amp.. Regarding the Cab DEP parameters (resonance, thump and decay) lately I changed my mind in the way I consider them, it seems that some dynamic characteristics (like resonances) can not be captured into simple IRs, so they need to be modeled apart and applied to the IRs, that's why some of the available cabs sound really dead without the resonance contribute, but that said AFAIK the HD400 doesn't offer any control for those parameters. ____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ All about POD HD500/X new forum/blog thanks , good tipps... I will have a look on your post! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
summerdreams Posted May 31, 2018 Author Share Posted May 31, 2018 14 hours ago, spaceatl said: the defaults on some of the amp models are not good...The main thing to look at are the DEP (Deep Edit Parameters) on the amp and cab...Usually it's the Master parameter that is the main culprit...way too high most of the time...A real JCM800 sounds like crap dimed and the default is 100%...Then there is the RES LVL in the cab parms...basically, that's the FIZZ control...That is generally 0% on all of my patches...Usually, just getting the master DEP down to a realistic level and setting RES LVL to 0% gets most of the garbage out...I never really needed any additional EQ...Some other things that help are the HPF in the cab deps...some cabs have a ton of low end and getting that to 82 Hz for standard tuning really helps center the amp tonestack which changes how the mid works...This is different on every model and is quite close to the real amps, so you have to kinda approach each model cab combination a bit different...anyhoo, that's my 2 cents... thanks,I guess, I will now focus on an full range "engineered" sound for the studio monitors/PA...with all this creepy device has to offer (mics,cabs,full amp models ,eq) rather than desperately trying to make the hd to act like a tubepreamp in a traditional setup with poweramp/guitars speakers (without cab and micssims)...that would be like a japanese car without all its technical gimmicks... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spaceatl Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 Thank you for the correction hurghanico. I kept the HD400 around post beta for a couple of years and do not remember the nuances...Only that the defaults are not that great as has always been an issue up until the Helix. There are quite a few differences in the HD400 vs the 500, Desktop and PRO...The main thing is that the chain order is semi-fixed like the old XT...and a single chain only...The models are HD, but the approach is a little different than on an HD 500, Desktop or PRO... A good idea to check out what Karl has to say imo... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spaceatl Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 It's the taper of the Master pot correlated to the linear scale of the DEP parameter...50% Master DEP correlates to the actual pot being at 80% or 8...I think it was more like 7.5 but 8 is close enough and much higher than ALL real world experience I have with that amp...All I can tell you is that Karl was completely on target...Another thing to consider is that not all JCM800s are created equal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spaceatl Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 Well, I would say 100% = 100%....The variance below that is in the LOG as it compares to the LINEAR taper...I agree with you...CLASS A models would be the master DEP at 100%...But because of how they really operate, there really shouldn't be a master DEP since they have no master volume in the real world...I find amp models to behave a lot like samples did on the early AKAI samplers before multi-sample stuff came along....basically, the behavior is fairly realistic in a nominal range...getting radical goes beyond what the real amp did or behaved...The tonestack is where I really notice it....radical EQ makes deviate a bit more IMO...The thing that makes the HD a bit difficult to get under is the sheer number of permutations when different cabs, mics, FX and such are added...couple in a different tonestack behavior on every amp model and it can make finding that nominal range challenging...but that is just my own opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spaceatl Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 A lot of cost in the FULL models...Some take up nearly 1/2 of the DSP capability...every little augmentation costs...all I can really say... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
summerdreams Posted June 1, 2018 Author Share Posted June 1, 2018 15 hours ago, spaceatl said: A lot of cost in the FULL models...Some take up nearly 1/2 of the DSP capability...every little augmentation costs...all I can really say... DSP limitation is always an isue with these units...why cant they put stronger processors in those devices? Which are the problems? Heat ,power supply etc.? Is software amp/fx modelling not better qualitywise then....you could use the full power of a strong pc processor...at least for recording Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codamedia Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 12 hours ago, summerdreams said: DSP limitation is always an isue with these units...why cant they put stronger processors in those devices? Which are the problems? Heat ,power supply etc.? The HD400 was designed and build using technology available in 2010. Processors double in capability every 18 months.... what we have now simply wasn't invented 8 years ago. 12 hours ago, summerdreams said: Is software amp/fx modelling not better qualitywise then....you could use the full power of a strong pc processor...at least for recording For recording maybe... but it is not practical for the average gigging musician. There are also a lot of "new problems" associated with that type of setup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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