Jump to content
kashs7

Powercab or powercab plus

Recommended Posts

Hi!I rencently purchased a helix floor and at the first moment I go to my tube amp with the 4cm but I’m looking for something more easy,to carry and simplicity. Like the amp in the room sound and I think the powercab is the way to go,the question is if  

I will get the normal powercab or better the plus, because I would prefer not to overpay. Also had the headrush frfr someone tried it?Thank’s

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have the FRFR-112. It sounds VERY GOOD. It replaced an Alto TS-210, which wasn't bad. For the price, the FRFR-112 is a good bet. I don't currently have the money to buy the Powercab for comparison, but if the money tree drops some leaves on me I definitely will.

 

Here's a link to a long and sometimes contentious discussion of FRFR speakers which includes details of my back and forth with Headrush support over the difference between the FRFR-112 and the identically spec'd Alto TS312. Draw your own conclusions.

 

 

To repeat, the FRFR-112 sounds VERY good. YMMV, caveat emptor.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I haven't heard either version of the powercab first hand.  But I have studied their features and have been a Helix floor owner for a couple of years now.  Trust me - you want the plus and will regret it later of you don't.  The increased DSP options it provides is a no-brainer in my opinion.  I'm invested in FRFR myself and am trying to decide whether to get the Powercab-P.  Every Y-tube video I've seen (except for those officially sponsored/produced by LIne-6) sounds like total crap - but that's not Line 6s, or the powercab's fault  (just bad video/sound technique - you can tell).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thank you so much,the headrush is tempting for the price and the powercab videos like Jlondon say sounds like crap...one thing that I can’t see is the truly advantage of the powercab plus over the normal,only haven’t to spend memory of the helix...Rd2rk the headrush how feels when you play on it,you get the amp in the room effect?thanks again

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, kashs7 said:

Thank you so much,the headrush is tempting for the price and the powercab videos like Jlondon say sounds like crap...one thing that I can’t see is the truly advantage of the powercab plus over the normal,only haven’t to spend memory of the helix...Rd2rk the headrush how feels when you play on it,you get the amp in the room effect?thanks again

 

The only way to get true "amp in the room" sound is to buy a guitar amp.

 

With ANY FRFR cab, you're getting the sound of a mic'd amp and guitar cab reproduced through a Full Range cabinet, and Flat Response is relative.

 

So the answer to your question is, an FRFR speaker IS an amp in the room. It creates sound waves (pushes air) which, with sufficient volume, will flap your pants and damage your hearing. If it sounds good to you with your modeler, then it's the right amp for you. Some people like Fender amps, some swear by Marshalls, or Boogies or VOX or Diesel or.....the fact is, these days, most of the people in the audience have only ever heard those amps through recordings, or as mic'd through a PA. Live in a small club they can't tell the difference between a JCM800 and a Triple Rectifier, just that it's TOO LOUD! That's why the way of the future is modelers, IEMs and amp-less stages. Your 2000 watt FRFR is probably going to be used as a personal monitor if you're not using IEMs.

 

If I had $1000-1500 for an FRFR, I'd spend it on a good IEM rig and get used to it.

 

Meanwhile, my $300 Headrush FRFR-112 sounds REALLY GOOD and, fortunately, my neighbors seem to think so too (and they like my playing).....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, rd2rk said:

To repeat, the FRFR-112 sounds VERY good. YMMV, caveat emptor.

 

Hi rd2rk

 

I read the thread and it seems no-one ever answered whether the FRFR-112 sounds different/better than the  Alto TS312.  Did you ever get a sense they do sound different?

 

I ask as there's the FRFR sells for about 10% more than the TS312 here in Australia.

 

Oh, you're right about IEMS.  I use what I think is a low-mid cost solution:

  • IEMs  (64 ears, A3s) for my monitoring with
  • a Posse (http://posseaudio.com/) providing onstage ambient sound as well as controlling the level of vocal monitor mix for the best balance/sound I've ever had - having ambient sound was really important to me feeling part of the band/audience and I couldn't afford the in-ears that have built in ambient mics.  That and none of them seem to have the gain I require to hear the ambient properly.

It's a set-up that allows me to work with very simple monitoring arrangements (just a vocal send) through to nice independent mix set-ups and still make sure I hear enough of me (vox or guitar) without bugging the sound person.  I've also gone from being the loudest person in my band to the quietest with the Helix running running through FoH to compliment the on stage sound.  I've even been told to turn up!  Best decision I ever made.  I'd also note that I have bi-lateral conductive deafness (about 60db defeat) which means I like things very loud and I run the Posse about half volume at the master.

 

I'm just interested in different on stage monitoring that sounds more 'ampish' for my band members.  I currently use a pair of laney  IRT-x, which are good, but well you know there's always something else to try.

 

thanks

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Can't wait until Line6 adds the ability to change the speaker settings on the PowerCab from the Helix. It seems like a key ability of an FRFR designed for guitar would be to allow the high frequency driver to be engaged or bypassed from the Helix or other MFX. This allows you to use only the guitar speaker, e.g. Celestion, with for example most of the frequency response in the 70hz to 5khz range and only engage the high frequency driver when required. Switching to a preset for acoustic guitar or just an electric guitar preset that you want full range capability on would engage the high frequency driver on the PowerCab for FRFR usage. That way you get the best of both worlds depending on what a specific preset requires -  conventional guitar cab or FRFR.  This would eliminate a lot of the necessity to set low and high cuts as well as probably help with the way certain amp/cab models add excessive string noise when using an FRFR as a monitor.

 

This would give the PowerCab the capability to have an electric lead guitar preset set the PowerCab to, for example, the "Cream" speaker profile (uses guitar speaker only), or have an acoustic guitar preset dial up the "Flat" setting(uses guitar speaker and coax high frequency driver).

 

I also like the PowerCab's use of a coax design for the high frequency driver. Although I prefer direct to FOH it is a boon to guitarists who are miking their monitor.  That way the mic doesn't have to be positioned between two different drivers(speakers).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I can’ see anyway for the Powercab 112 to do this; it has no connectivity options.

The Powercab 112 Plus already supports this for Helix and any other modeller that has MIDI.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/1/2018 at 9:12 PM, waymda said:

 

Hi rd2rk

 

I read the thread and it seems no-one ever answered whether the FRFR-112 sounds different/better than the  Alto TS312.  Did you ever get a sense they do sound different?

 

I ask as there's the FRFR sells for about 10% more than the TS312 here in Australia.

 

 

 

Bottom line from my discussion with HR Support was that the FRFR112 is a TS312 without mic preamp. With the FRFR112 you want to set the Helix out to LINE. With the TS312 set it to MIC. Other than that and the big HEADRUSH logo, they are identical. If there's a shop there that has both, why not bring your Helix and try both with the relative settings as I described, then report back!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Rewolf48 said:

I can’ see anyway for the Powercab 112 to do this; it has no connectivity options.

The Powercab 112 Plus already supports this for Helix and any other modeller that has MIDI.

 

Couldn't they add this ability theoretically to the L6 Link? Same type of conversation has come up before with other L6 Link enabled devices about expanding the functionality of the L6 Link protocol. Great that you can switch the Powercab through MIDI though. I suppose if you set up a couple of preset templates so you don't have to manually add the MIDI setup every time that would be a simple way to leverage this capability.  Would be great though to just be able to dial up the speaker type from a menu on the Helix.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Plus can be upgraded to new speaker sims when they become available, and you can play backing tracks through the USB to play along to. Those two features are a strong argument for buying the Plus, IMO. I'm switching speaker modes with my Helix patches, using midi, and it's real easy. I guess if they make that happen through the L6 Link, it would be nice, but I really don't care because the midi implementation is simple and works every time. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree as do many others.

 

As we have had a Helix firmware release since Powercab came out there is either something else getting in the way or they are trying not to create the impression that it is a Helix only cab.

 

I would like a Powercab, but I am waiting to see what happens.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
57 minutes ago, specracer986 said:

The Plus can be upgraded to new speaker sims when they become available, and you can play backing tracks through the USB to play along to. Those two features are a strong argument for buying the Plus, IMO. I'm switching speaker modes with my Helix patches, using midi, and it's real easy. I guess if they make that happen through the L6 Link, it would be nice, but I really don't care because the midi implementation is simple and works every time. 

 

You definitely make a compelling argument for jumping onboard now. I'm curious, do you find yourself mostly using your Helix without cab blocks now or do you mostly run the Powercab in "Flat" mode. Just asking that question brings up another one for me. Would it be a good idea to have a "Flat" mode that does not turn on the high frequency driver? This would allow you to run cab/IR sims from the Helix through a more "neutral" sounding Powercab sim with just the guitar speaker without employing the HF driver. Does this mode already exist on the Powercab? If not I suppose you could just use whatever is currently the most uncolored neutral sounding Powercab preset other then "Flat".

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The PC Plus has LF Raw and LF Flat modes. Both are the LF driver without HF driver. Flat has some EQ added, Raw has no EQ. LF Flat is very usable for a lot of situations, Raw less so but I have used it. The standard PC has LF Raw but not LF Flat.

I rotate through various settings and I find a lot to like and I don't get stuck on any one setting. The included IR's are very good, as are the Live Ready Sound IR's and some I got from M Britt. That's really what I like about the PC, is it's given me lots of options to play with. The other guitarist in my band is a pure tube snob and he says my tone with the PC Plus is way better than what I was getting with my DXR12. I agree. My tone is a little more raw and unrefined, but much more guitar cab sounding. When I read about guys doing a direct comparison between the PC and an FRFR, I feel they are missing the point of the PC. It's an alternative product, meant to be used a little differently. If you embrace that, you'll get good payback. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, specracer986 said:

The PC Plus has LF Raw and LF Flat modes. Both are the LF driver without HF driver. Flat has some EQ added, Raw has no EQ. LF Flat is very usable for a lot of situations, Raw less so but I have used it. The standard PC has LF Raw but not LF Flat.

I rotate through various settings and I find a lot to like and I don't get stuck on any one setting. The included IR's are very good, as are the Live Ready Sound IR's and some I got from M Britt. That's really what I like about the PC, is it's given me lots of options to play with. The other guitarist in my band is a pure tube snob and he says my tone with the PC Plus is way better than what I was getting with my DXR12. I agree. My tone is a little more raw and unrefined, but much more guitar cab sounding. When I read about guys doing a direct comparison between the PC and an FRFR, I feel they are missing the point of the PC. It's an alternative product, meant to be used a little differently. If you embrace that, you'll get good payback. 

 

Just watched the Powercab video below which is an interview with Andy Paredes who is a Line6 rep. According to him, at 6:50 and also about 7:50 in the video, the "Raw" setting you mention does not include the HF driver which is exactly the feature I was hoping they would include. I think the "Flat" settings does include the HF driver, especially since they describe Flat mode going from 70hz-20khz on the Line6 product page. Additionally at 6:10 into the video he claims that the ability to select speaker type is coming via L6 Link, I assume that includes controlling it from the Helix. Wahoo!  Was actually a bit surprised to hear that as they don't often share future feature plans. Don't mean to sound like a fanboi but the Powercab appears a really well thought out device with the majority of the most important features my ideal FRFR would have. If they do indeed add the L6 Link speaker selection that would be a great addition although it does already have that functionality via MIDI.  The Plus version of the Powercab is looking mighty appealing right now.

 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The written documentation for the PC Plus is not fully accurate. Among other things, they list LF Solo mode, which is really LF Raw. LF Flat mode does not use the HF driver, but does have some EQ added, unlike LF Raw which is the LF driver with no EQ. LF Flat is probably the secret weapon of the PC Plus. 

I'm guessing that what you are reading about the frequency range for Flat mode is referring to FRFR mode.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, specracer986 said:

The written documentation for the PC Plus is not fully accurate. Among other things, they list LF Solo mode, which is really LF Raw. LF Flat mode does not use the HF driver, but does have some EQ added, unlike LF Raw which is the LF driver with no EQ. LF Flat is probably the secret weapon of the PC Plus. 

I'm guessing that what you are reading about the frequency range for Flat mode is referring to FRFR mode.

 

Thanks for the clarification and now that you mention it, duh, "LF Flat" pretty much implies no "HF" driver. Makes sense. Is there both an "LF Flat" that does not include the HF driver and also a normal "Flat" setting that does? Sorry for all the questions, don't have my own Powercab to refer to but that may change soon. Regardless of any confusion regarding preset names (that my posts or other videos may have helped introduce  :-)) it appears that there are modes available that allow the HF driver to be disengaged via MIDI and perhaps coming as well via L6 Link. That is fantastic!

 

Note: One more feature request. If the Helix is going to be adding the ability to change presets on the Powercab via L6 Link I would love to see them also add the ability to have the Global EQ modify the L6 Link signal. With the addition of Powercab preset selection from the Helix I would definitely want to connect via L6 Link. Seems a shame to lose the Global EQ in the process (currently it does not modify the L6 Link signal). I suppose I could always run FOH with Global EQ out of an XLR output but the more videos and literature I see on the PowerCab as well as the details of my setup would direct me to a setup that uses the Powercab's XLR out for FOH and not the one on the Helix.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The PC Plus comes with a speaker mode preset "000 Flat". That preset has three options you can select: FRFR, LF Raw, LF Flat. FRFR uses the HF driver, the other two don't. If you want to switch between those three options using midi, then you need to create two more presets so that all three have their own position for midi to call up. 

Another surprise is the preset "007 Natural". I use that one a lot. 

I never use Global EQ, but I agree that the L6 Link should be handled like any other output. Maybe there's a reason for that that we don't know about.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
42 minutes ago, specracer986 said:

...

I never use Global EQ, but I agree that the L6 Link should be handled like any other output. Maybe there's a reason for that that we don't know about.

 

I would not be surprised at all if there was a technical reason it has not been done. It seems like that feature has been requested a lot although if you look at the Ideascale entry for it there is a total of 7 votes so for all I know Line6 may have deprioritized it due to a perceived or perhaps real lack of interest. I think it becomes a more valuable feature since the addition of the Powercab.

 

https://line6.ideascale.com/a/dtd/Global-EQ-on-L6-Link/912758-23508#idea-tab-comments

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

QUESTION

I have a Powercab Plus...if I want to get a 2nd one to go stereo, is there any reason why the 2nd one would have to be the "Plus" version?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It only depends on how you use the plus today.

I've programmed the midi on many presets to change the model speaker (i've got only one plus).

With the futur helix's firmware update, we'll be able to put aside the midi cable and with L6 link to link both PC+ together (and command each model speaker).

If you only use the FRFR mode, go on using XLR right/left modeler outputs (a "simple" PC will be enough)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello all! I just got the Powercab Plus 212. So far it is Awesome, especially in speaker mode! Im hoping someone can help me here though. My presets I had werent sounding right to me in speaker mode so I basically did them over, now I have them sounding great. However, If I add a Cabinet in the helix chain and go to FRFR mode on the Powercab...they sound really "ratty" and pretty horrible. I was hoping to use the cabinet for live shows in speaker mode like I normally would, but send the DI out to house, but now I am wrried the house signal will sound like crap even though the speakers sound great on stage?! Anyone run into similar problem? Also I was using L6 link and notice a "crackling" noise that bothered me so now Im just using XLR or 1/4". 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Tdonn25 said:

Hello all! I just got the Powercab Plus 212. So far it is Awesome, especially in speaker mode! Im hoping someone can help me here though. My presets I had werent sounding right to me in speaker mode so I basically did them over, now I have them sounding great. However, If I add a Cabinet in the helix chain and go to FRFR mode on the Powercab...they sound really "ratty" and pretty horrible. I was hoping to use the cabinet for live shows in speaker mode like I normally would, but send the DI out to house, but now I am wrried the house signal will sound like crap even though the speakers sound great on stage?! Anyone run into similar problem? Also I was using L6 link and notice a "crackling" noise that bothered me so now Im just using XLR or 1/4". 

There are a lot of cab options to play with and if you don't like any of the cabs then you can dive into IR's to send to FOH. I don't know why the cabs sound "ratty" to you. Are you sure you're not sending too strong of a signal to the PC? If the led is constantly flashing red, then you're overdriving the input. I don't get a "crackling" noise with the L6 cable.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you're using a regular XLR cable, supposedly it's a different spec from the L6 cable. I can't say for sure that it makes a difference, as I don't own a Powercab, but I've read that it does.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 10/8/2019 at 7:53 AM, Tdonn25 said:

Hello all! I just got the Powercab Plus 212. So far it is Awesome, especially in speaker mode! Im hoping someone can help me here though. My presets I had werent sounding right to me in speaker mode so I basically did them over, now I have them sounding great. However, If I add a Cabinet in the helix chain and go to FRFR mode on the Powercab...they sound really "ratty" and pretty horrible. I was hoping to use the cabinet for live shows in speaker mode like I normally would, but send the DI out to house, but now I am wrried the house signal will sound like crap even though the speakers sound great on stage?! Anyone run into similar problem? Also I was using L6 link and notice a "crackling" noise that bothered me so now Im just using XLR or 1/4". 

i don't have a PC.  But what i know is this.   Anytime an "essential variable" changes, so must the settings. 

going from a raw speaker mode to an FRFR mode, changes the variable. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...