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PerS

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Hi

 

Made an update of my Cheat Sheet, Line6 Helix Model Summary, if anyone are intereted. All up to date with 2.50 update and all amps, cabs, mics and effects are in order of appearance on the unite. Some corrections are also made, if someone down loaded the previus version. 

 

Unfortunately, there will be one more page as there are just too many amps and effects in the unit :-) Or, there is now room for more... I still want to keep the sheet readable, so have kept the font size the same.  

 

Download from my dropbox - https://www.dropbox.com/s/e2jsnnqwscr6iml/Line6 Helix-Model Summary%2C 2%2C50-P1.0-01.pdf?dl=0

 

Have fun

//Per

 

 

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Thanks, glad if it can be of any help for you.

 

//Per

 

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Lots o work here- and "Thank Ye Kindly" for it too!

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Hi

Another update of my Cheat Sheet, Line6 Helix Model Summary, if anyone are intereted. Up to date with 2.60 update and all amps, cabs, mics and effects are in order of appearance on the unite. 

 

Still the same format

 

Download from my Dropbox - https://www.dropbox.com/s/w6pvbv1l0t0b5cf/Line6 Helix-Model Summary%2C 2%2C60-P1.0-01.pdf?dl=0

 

Have fun

//Per

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Thanks so much.  It's nice to know there's someone out there keeping all this updated for everyone's benefit.  Much appreciated!!!!!

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This is great and very generous!  Thanks for taking the time to do it for the entire Helix Nation!!

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Hi
New version in Helix so a new version of my Cheat Sheet, Line6 Helix Model Summary, for the one who like it on a printed sheet or as a file on your PC/MAC.  Have added the new models in 2.80 firmware. They are in the order of appearance on the unite.

 

Same format as before. 


Download it from my Dropbox here - https://www.dropbox.com/s/d6jyu6p3148nz5y/Line6 Helix-Model Summary, 2,80-P1.0-02.pdf?dl=0

 

Have fun

//Per

 

Edit: Changed the link adress to the correct document

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Hi

Have made a new version, 2.92, of my Cheat Sheet, Line6 Helix Model Summary, for the ones who still like it on a printed sheet or as a file on your PC/MAC. All models up to firmware 2.92 are in there and as usual they are in the order of appearance on the unite.

Have cleaned the sheet up a bit (preparing for 3.0 and all new amps, cabs and effects :-)) and have added some more info – Input impedance for effects and reset/restore key combos incl what the different key combos do.

Else, same format as before.

Download it from my Dropbox here - https://www.dropbox.com/s/90d6cv09rhzqrks/Line6 Helix-Model Summary%2C P2%2C92-05.pdf?dl=0

Have fun

//Per

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Thanks surfsup1955, glad it comes into use for someone else then me. Now I'm waiting for 3.0 so I can up date it again, hope i come soon :-) 

//Per

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This is truly one of the most important things any helix owner should download.

 

It should be linked from the product page on line6.com!  I know it can't be, but it SHOULD be.

 

It would have saved me a ton of time early on if I'd had this.  Is there like a "EVERYONE NEEDS THESE ITEMS TO USE A HELIX" section somewhere?  It should go there LoL

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On 6/2/2018 at 4:03 PM, PerS said:

Hi

 

Made an update of my Cheat Sheet, Line6 Helix Model Summary, if anyone are intereted. All up to date with 2.50 update and all amps, cabs, mics and effects are in order of appearance on the unite. Some corrections are also made, if someone down loaded the previus version. 

 

Unfortunately, there will be one more page as there are just too many amps and effects in the unit :-) Or, there is now room for more... I still want to keep the sheet readable, so have kept the font size the same.  

 

Download from my dropbox - https://www.dropbox.com/s/e2jsnnqwscr6iml/Line6 Helix-Model Summary%2C 2%2C50-P1.0-01.pdf?dl=0

 

Have fun

//Per

 

 

 

Thanks, this is a great resource! Are the input impedance values listed for the original analog effects actually reflected in all the equivalent Line6 effect blocks?  Where did you get those values from? I was surprised at how many of the non-fuzz effects I use are not 1M Ohm.  Impedance discussions around here seem to focus primarily on fuzz pedals yet there are others, e.g. '70's chorus' and Mutron auto-wah, that appear to enter into the equation as well once you start inspecting all the effects' impedance values.

 

I wonder also if all of these amps actually have a 1M Ohm impedance in the analog world as they do on the Helix? If not, I'm curious why they did not match the impedance for amps as well as effects. The current Helix impedance implementation allows one analog impedance adjustment only for the first block so it would not make much difference anyway. Most people don't put their amp block first in the signal chain. It brings up the question of how to accurately model potentially multiple devices in a signal chain with a non-standard(not 1M Ohm) impedance and also provide maximum flexibility on their placement.

 

Are any of the modeling companies emulating impedance digitally between blocks including between effects and amps? Maybe it doesn't matter how granular you got on the analog circuit impedance emulation if the digital block sounds close enough to the original effect or amp you're going for.

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Hi

Wow, so many reactions on my post. Thank you so much.

Donkelley – Thanks for your kind word. I’m glad it can contribute to have more fun with your HX. What I can’t contribute so much in is your need for "EVERYONE NEEDS THESE ITEMS TO USE A HELIX". First my rig is quite simple and there is so many sources that can give those answers too your specific needs. An answer I general dislike myself so I give you my 5 cent based on my perspective (have no “handbook” to share but my experience as a playing guitar and used modelers since 1998, from XT, POD HD Pro and now HX LT last 4 years).

  • There is a learning curve, quite steep, to use modelers so also Helix. I think one of the big challenges are to understand that this is not an amp in the room, it’s a micked amp “seen” from a control room or in live situation is what the audience hear.
    Another challenge is the attempt to use patches made by someone else. I have done this on my earlier modelers and have done it on my Helix. It’s rare to find a god patch that works for your needs. But, it can be used e see how other think, good or bad. Now and then I find a patch I can tweak to my liking. So, my advice (feel someone else has given this on this forum, so its stolen) – Start make your own patches and start simple. Use an amp you have a relation to and make some simple patches by adding some effects. Eg a touch of delay and reverb and maybe a odd/dist pedal. Tweak and see what happen and how you can reach something you like. Go from there and add the complexity you need , endless of opportunities…
    If I would recommend a template to have as a starting point I would recommend Jason Sadites templates. There is an older from like 2018 that I used a lot and tweaked depending of what I needed. The new TemplateLAStudio is the same as the old one but use som 2.9 features (the hi/lo Shelf EQ), but I have not tried it yet – you find them here (Floor/LT or Stomp) - https://line6.com/customtone/profile/jaysadites/.  
  • Use online resources, there is so many good places to find information that is not in the manual, here are some
    • This Helix forum – This has been my mane sours of information during my “modeling career”. So much knowledge, so many different experiences and so many that are willing to share.
    • Line6 Knowledge base and there videos -
  • Jason Sadites on Youtube, worth repeating – You find so much more on different topics,  https://www.youtube.com/user/gtr111/videos. A great place to learn small and big things. Yesterday I saw his video about Ducking Delay, made me go from total failure on every earlier attempt in using it to be my favorite…
  • The Gear Page, TGP - https://www.thegearpage.net/. Under “Digital & Modeling Gear” there is endless with info. A bit hard to navigate and find as its not just a Helix Forum, but many real good topics and a lot of knowledge.
  • Just to mention my simple rig. It’s actually in basic my LT with my guitar in one end and the other end connected to my “mini PA”. To go a bit deeper, I have a couple of single and humbucker guitars and an old Variax 500 that works great. I have a small pedal board hosting my wireless receiver and two pedals (Blues drive and a boost, residues I can't live witout from my old pedalboard). The LT then hooks to a small mixer to mix backing tracks from PC and/or if I play with someone I hook them up here. The mixer I connected to a small PA amp (InterM 500) and ends in “FRFR”-like speakers (modded "hifi-speakers").

Don’t know if this was what you were looking for but hope it gave a clue/lead to move on to next step…   sorry for my broken english, swedish is may native...   

 

//Per

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Hi HonestOpinion

Let me start by saying that I read yours and other threads about how Line6 handle the input impedance on Helix and I agree with you and others that this could be done in a different way.

In my cheat sheet on the last page I refer to the source of this information, Tito83 on TGP. This info has been published in many different excel sheets and threads/forums. I used this two both referring to Tito83. Cross checked them for differences and linked my master XL for the pdf to one of those XL and read them in, to avoid typos…

Exact how those values are determined I can’t say. I have seen it as it is each specific effects input impedance, probably from data sheet for each effect. As Helix models several parameters incl impedance I guess it will be used as in real life, the position in effect chain will affect the sound depending on where you place it. When this subject comes up in different forums there is mostly those two XL-sheets that are being referred to. So I used what looked like “common info” and added this to the sheet. If I’m wrong and someone has better info or another way of describing it, I correct it. I see it as a hint how each pedal behaves, not how Helix determining the input impedance (which is strange…). Regarding the amps I think you are right, but in the XL-sheets I found stated 1M to all amps and didn’t question it at this time. I actually checked a few schematics (some Fender and Marshall) but they looked like 1M.    

 

I hade another goal in this update, that I gave up at this time, to add DSP-load :-)… In this case I didn’t do it as I could not find consistent info, and it was complicated to add it into the sheet. My goal with the sheet itself is to have basic info in one place, info that can affect the end result. The info I included are info found on different places and formats. But it has to be correct, so I take feedback if I should do it different or even take it away if it confuses or are wrong.   

 

I’m a Line6 guy all in and haven’t dig into how other companies do the impedance thing. Probably have the same struggle as Line6…

 

Sorry for another long post :-) and my broken English…

 

//Per

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1 hour ago, optofonik said:

How would one "model" impedance?

 

Good question, same thing occurred to me. They manage to model some fairly complex circuits, tones, and effects making complicated and convoluted changes. Maybe impedance changes and the way devices respond to it can be modeled as well. 

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Hi

:-) This is way over limit of my knowledge... but I think its not the impedance itself, it's the response of the circuit it emulates. I think how this is done is probably the company secret, but my guess is it can be don down to component level. Like behavior of the tube in the amp, the tone circuit in the amp or how a cab effect the amp tone depending of impedance changes and interactions between circuits or how different pickups interact when connected etc. Think this is also the challenge HonestOpinion and some others are in to about how the input impedance are set dependent of pedal (active or bypassed) and how the signal chain looks like and how Line6 is doing this. One more challenge is that some stomps are not true bypass, they are buffered...    

 

I recalled this video from an interview with Ben Adrian on Line6. Its about modeling amps but if you listening to it and think stomp/effect I think its applicable - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bz9tO4-kAG4&feature=youtu.be.

 

An interesting link to an article was also published in this thread by rd2rk - https://line6.com/support/topic/53289-how-modeling-is-done/

 

Sorry for an "avoiding" answer :-) 

 

EDIT: Forgot one thing - The input impedance in the Helix it self is not emulated, it is actual physically changed in the input stage. You set it  by a value other than auto or it's set by a predefined value in auto mode. The trick starts when the effect is not in first position and how Helix chose input impedance when first effect are in bypass. 
(and fix some grammar :-)

 

//Per

 

 

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 So the one a refereed to was faster then me :-)

 

/Per

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Thanks for linking to the video. Fascinating stuff. I lived down the street from Grayson's Tune Town for about ten years and had the opportunity to meet Sam when I had some work done on one of my gits and again at a local restaurant where we had an opportunity to chat a bit. He offered to share his grilled bologna sandwich with me when I seemed a bit incredulous about hoe tasty a "grilled bologna" could be. He's good people (and was right about the sandwich; I ordered one during a later visit and it was the bomb).

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Grayson's Tune Town is it located in north Los Angeles? That's what I call a Music Shop. I could spend a day or two there :-). I think my next trip to US will be to LA. Have been in Chicago a couple of times, in Nashville, in Memphis in New Orleans and Austin. Fantastic places. Been in LA but only in business. Think its time LA with  Grayson's Tune Town and Baked Potatoes and at trip to San Francisco for some more blues. Hope Corona leave us soon...

Take care... //Per

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