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patdixon

Using amp models with a real amp

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Until now I've only used the LT as a stomp and it works really well for that. Since my cover band does Sweet Child O' Mine I downloaded Ben Vesco's patch which sounds great on his FRFR setup. The tone on this song is quite clean; some reverb and obviously recorded very loudly but not a lot of grit. He did a ton of research on the original amp used so the tone really is authentic.

 

My initial thought was to use the clean channel of my amp however I can't use his patch as is because it's just too busy with my rig, and I can't just go FOH all the time because none of the other presets  have amp/cab modeling. I'm going to try to just use his amp/cab model & reverbs and see what it sounds like with my amp.

 

I'm sure some of you have used a clean amp with amp/cab models so I'm asking for tips on how to make this sound good. It doesn't have to be perfect but it needs to have that balance.  

 

Any advice much appreciated.
 

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Well, someone will say it is not the right thing or whatever, but I had great sound using Helix's Amps with my poweramp Rocktron Velocity and a 2x12.

I guess you could use 1 of the send/returns to use this patch sending the signal to your amp fx loop return (using only the poweramp)....
I guess you could give it a try....

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Look up 4 cable method. That allows you to bypass your amps preamp and use the Helix preamp models through your power amp to your cabinet. 

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That's a great idea using 4cm, thanks! I'll try it & report back (if this job thing would just go away I'd have more time) 

 

:o)

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Four cable method is usually used when you still want your amp's preamp, you are likely to have the best luck going into your amp's return, if it has one.

 

That being said, if it sounds good to you, it IS good.

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So I'm not through, but I have at least a temporary solution: I used the amps emulated out to dial in a decent tone with headphones, thereby bypassing the internal speaker. My neighbors appreciate it, they just don't know it. 

 

Though I learned a lot about reverb from Ben V, I actually used an amp model from a Jason Sadite's patch found here. I incorporated it into my already useful auto bypass wah function so it'll work for Friday's gig. Later when I have more time I'll try using 4cm- I think you can assign a block to be the amp within Helix so it will be switchable per preset. 

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13 hours ago, dotpc said:

Four cable method is usually used when you still want your amp's preamp, you are likely to have the best luck going into your amp's return, if it has one.

 

That being said, if it sounds good to you, it IS good.

 

Agreed.

 

I use 4 cable method a lot. When bypassing my tube amp's preamp, I will usually use the preamp only models on the Helix. With some models it sounds better to use the full amp.

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When using an amp model (full or preamp) with an actual amp (input, effect return, or power amp in) the only thing I would consistently do is make sure the cabinet/mic simulation is turned off. IME.... cab sims into anything that isn't full range is where the most unpredictability is. I'm not saying it can't sound good, I'm just saying it becomes unpredictable. 

 

IMO.... I would never use two of the same thing. 

  • Amp preamp or Helix preamp... not both
  • Standard guitar cabinet or Cab/Mic sim on the Helix... not both

Fortunately... as long as your amp has an effects loop the 4 cable setup will allow you to do whatever you need.  

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I used the 4cm with my blackstar ht 60 and it was fine,but now i use the seymore duncan powerstage 170 with my blackstar 212 cab and I like it alot more.I like my setup better than the frfr setup i was using it sounds better and I can tweak the eq with the powerstage if i need to something I could not do using the 4cm.

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So an update: the gig went very well (a friend in the audience is a huge GnR fan; said my guitar tone was spot on). Thank you for the 4cm idea- the difference in noise is unbelievable. I can now turn the master all the way up on the amp & hear very little hiss. For now I'm only using the one preset with an amp model (no cab) but this opens up a whole new world of possibilities. 

 

I apologize to Line6 for saying the output is noisey, it is not if hooked up correctly. A suggestion: maybe the next time they publish a manual this should be stated emphatically...

 

Thanks for all the help; I love my Helix LT & it really sounds good.

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I have found that for live performance, almost always less is more: less reverb, less distortion, less delay, less low end and most important of all: less notes. A simple signal path will sound good and is easy to control during performances. Things that sound great by themselves often don’t sound good in a dense mix or in a small club situation where the band is essentially saturating the room. Music needs space to help distinguish the notes, tone, harmony. Helix is a large part of that overall dynamics in how the patches are setup.

 

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