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DunedinDragon

Considering Variax...what are the gotcha's??

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I've had my Helix floor for some time now and use several different guitars with it.  But I started considering a resonator and am now thinking maybe it's time to look at a Variax for use mainly with special applications such as the resonator, banjo, and special tunings.  I haven't paid a lot of attention to Variax posts, but I do kind of remember of couple of things that have been problematic so I figured I'd get some lowdown on here from some of you Variax/Helix users.  My intentions would be to use it with the VDI.

 

I seem to remember some issues with Variax and palm muting.  Is this an issue?

 

As a resonator I'll be using finger picking almost exclusively.  This has always concerned me with the Variax given string spacing on the neck.  Does anyone here use the variax with finger picking or hybrid picking and how does it compare to something like a  Gretsch hollow body?

 

Also any other gotcha's that you've run into using the Variax with the Helix.

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If you would buy a Variax because you want to dig in to playing resonator and/or banjo, I doubt you'll get a satisfying experience. Variaxes are well built guitars, but they feel and play like electric guitars (body size/neck thickness/string tension/string spacing etc.). This means they don't feel like an actual resonator or banjo. The sounds get close, but are more suited for a guitar player who doesn't want to change guitars for the occasional acoustic/resonator/banjo part. But for instance, I would be very frustrated if I had to change my acoustic guitars for the acoustic sounds in the Variax.

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I use a Variax fairly extensively in some shows. As Jos_K has already mentioned, it's great way to add sounds to a show but it won't be a replacement for any real instruments because you are always playing an electric guitar. 

 

IMO... the sounds are already very good but if you add a nice acoustic IR or Resonator IR the acoustic sounds can really come to life. In a band situation it will mix in quickly and nicely. 

 

Here are some things that may or may not matter to you...

  1. With the resonators you will be able to play them like a round neck and some bottleneck slide if you want. BUT - you will not get that square neck (Jerry Douglas) playability.  The slide is very different with that style, and it is not possible (not for me anyway) to play like that on these. You can certainly fake parts to at least get the sound. 
  2. With Banjo you are confined to a 6-string faux banjo (used a lot in country these days) or a tenor plectrum style.... 5 - string can be faked, but is not easy. For a 5-String sound I have two patches depending on my need. On one patch I tune the high E down to a D which sacrifices the high G drone. On another I tune the high E up to a G but have to sacrifice the Banjo D string. Since I play real 5-string, it also takes a different technique with the high G being at the opposite end of neck than usual. 
  3. The acoustics, although quite nice, can sound a little thin due to the string composition and size. EG: If you put a set of nickel 10's on a real J-45 even it will sound thin - LOL! I have an acquaintance that plays a Variax most for acoustic sounds and he puts Phosphor Bronze strings on his. That makes a huge difference but when the acoustic instruments are secondary it isn't practical. This is where the addition of a nice IR can come in very handy to thicken and warm the tone.

As for palm muting... I've learned to adjust but I use an older Variax. I think this has been addressed considerably in the newer models (JTV and newer). 

As to your question about finger picking... I've never noticed that to be a problem, but I'm used to switching guitars all the time. It's just another guitar to get used to.

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8 minutes ago, codamedia said:

I use a Variax fairly extensively in some shows. As Jos_K has already mentioned, it's great way to add sounds to a show but it won't be a replacement for any real instruments because you are always playing an electric guitar. 

 

IMO... the sounds are already very good but if you add a nice acoustic IR or Resonator IR the acoustic sounds can really come to life. In a band situation it will mix in quickly and nicely. 

 

Here are some things that may or may not matter to you...

  1. With the resonators you will be able to play them like a round neck and some bottleneck slide if you want. BUT - you will not get that square neck (Jerry Douglas) playability.  The slide is very different with that style, and it is not possible (not for me anyway) to play like that on these. You can certainly fake parts to at least get the sound. 
  2. With Banjo you are confined to a 6-string faux banjo (used a lot in country these days) or a tenor plectrum style.... 5 - string can be faked, but is not easy. For a 5-String sound I have two patches depending on my need. On one patch I tune the high E down to a D which sacrifices the high G drone. On another I tune the high E up to a G but have to sacrifice the Banjo D string. Since I play real 5-string, it also takes a different technique with the high G being at the opposite end of neck than usual. 
  3. The acoustics, although quite nice, can sound a little thin due to the string composition and size. EG: If you put a set of nickel 10's on a real J-45 even it will sound thin - LOL! I have an acquaintance that plays a Variax most for acoustic sounds and he puts Phosphor Bronze strings on his. That makes a huge difference but when the acoustic instruments are secondary it isn't practical. This is where the addition of a nice IR can come in very handy to thicken and warm the tone.

As for palm muting... I've learned to adjust but I use an older Variax. I think this has been addressed considerably in the newer models (JTV and newer). 

As to your question about finger picking... I've never noticed that to be a problem, but I'm used to switching guitars all the time. It's just another guitar to get used to.

 

Appreciate the feedback.  I think we may be somewhat similar in what we expect from our guitars and in how we use them, so I appreciate the honesty.  I think based on what you're saying I might get some benefit in terms of workflow, but I'm not sure that will be sufficient to overcome my frustrations with the sound and feel.  This is one of the reasons I've stayed with my traditional guitars (Les Paul, Strat, Tele, Gretsch hollow body, and acoustic).  I already have a Gold Tone banjo guitar which I can get by with, so it's off to shop for Resonators I think.

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1 hour ago, DunedinDragon said:

I think based on what you're saying I might get some benefit in terms of workflow, but I'm not sure that will be sufficient to overcome my frustrations with the sound and feel. 

 

For convenience and workflow they are wonderful... only you can decide the latter part of your statement :) 

 

I should put things in perspective.... I didn't pay $1000 + for a new Variax.... I bought a used 300 for peanuts and put a really nice Fender Tele neck on it so I would enjoy playing it. I'm not so sure I would like it as much as I do if I had more invested in it.  To be fair though, the newer guitars all have magnetic pickups as well, so as long as it's a nice guitar I enjoy playing the investment may be worth it.  

 

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11 minutes ago, codamedia said:

 

For convenience and workflow they are wonderful... only you can decide the latter part of your statement :) 

 

I should put things in perspective.... I didn't pay $1000 + for a new Variax.... I bought a used 300 for peanuts and put a really nice Fender Tele neck on it so I would enjoy playing it. I'm not so sure I would like it as much as I do if I had more invested in it.  To be fair though, the newer guitars all have magnetic pickups as well, so as long as it's a nice guitar I enjoy playing the investment may be worth it.  

 

 

+1...I have the JTV69. The stock neck is terrible. Very narrow at the nut. Open position chords were a nightmare, and I have reasonably long fingers, lol... and I found it almost unplayable (I weep for the "sausage digit" crowd...;) ). It now sports a Warmoth Strat neck... an infinite improvement. 

 

The modeling I think is quite good on the whole (not overly thrilled with the Strat model, but the single coil mag pickups actually sound pretty damn good, though they are a bit noisier than average). Being able to bounce from electric to "acoustic" live, has been transformative....would I record an album with it instead of mic-ing a nice acoustic? Probably not...but tweaked with a couple of acoustic IR's I got, in a live mix it's so damn close that the overwhelming majority of listeners would never know the difference if it weren't for the visual of a guy holding an electric....

 

The alt tunings can have issues... particularly those that are altering the pitch of some strings but not others. Drop D for instance is subject to crosstalk issues of you're palm - muting... anything you play play on the A string can be "heard" by the low E piezo, and subsequently detuned, so you're hearing two pitches a whole step apart. Gets muddy and I can't really use it. Tunings that are altering all the strings by the same interval are not affected by crosstalk, as the same algorithm is applied to everything, even if an adjacent piezo saddle picks up the string next door. I use 1/2 down tuning all the time, and I find that it tracks very well. 

 

In the end it's a compromise... very good at some things, others not so much.

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Live use: useful if you need some occasional sounds (eg sitar, banjo) or alternative tunings and don't want to lug around or buy a bunch of other instruments. A great time saver for slide guitar stuff. But none of the models or alternative tunings will beat the real thing in terms of sound or feel. Also, the more "by itself" the guitar, the more it is apparent its modeled, although in a band or mix it holds up OK. Straight tuning regular guitar models hold up OK, though, as do the mag pickups, especially if tweaked via Helix.

 

Studio use: similar to above, models and tunings can be useful and a time saver in the studio if the real thing isn't available, and if the instrument will be blended in a mix. I've used alternative (slide) tunings for solo leads and they hold up OK, but I put on heavier strings.

 

As a guitar: I always favor my non-modeled guitars over the Variax. I would never recommend one as an "only" electric guitar. This also holds true for my Variax acoustic vs real acoustic. But I would never sell my Variaxes because when I need them, I need them — they can be a time and money saver if you gig and record regularly.

 

Resonators: I bought a New Republic Delta Rocket Resonator guitar a few years back and have been really happy with the quality for the money.

http://republicguitars.com

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 I got a used JTV-89 for about 500$ from Long Mcquade(music retailer in Canada) about a little over year ago and it has become my main guitar now. With the alternate tuning option I have been able to expand my setlists with tunes I normally wouldn’t do(too lazy to bring multiple guitars to shows).

 I do love the acoustic option specially after treating the signal with some eq, compressor, preamp tube, delay and reverb: it sounds great, I get a lot of compliments on it. 

 Some of my songs go from heavy Lead PRS  Archeon tone to an acoustic guitar and the variax makes it so much easier. The helix/variax integration is just awesome. 

Another thing that I never thought I would use, is when copying someone else’s tone, to use the guitar models(even in standard tuning). Like Josh Homme: early QOSTA tone use Les Paul model, for latter stuff the Hollowbody models and for his Them Crooked Vultures a Tele or Billie Joe Armstrong (Green Day)set to Special on the neck position. 

 All this and more makes me want another one and hopfully in the future that they released a new model with Helix level of modeling and a bass variax model. 

 Not crazy about the twelve string models though I have used them. Perhaps updated tech could fix that. 

 I also love the magnetic pickups in the JTV-89. Variax are just fun instruments specially with what you can do with them with the Helix. Just check out Twleve Foot Ninja to show you some of the possibilities. 

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Seems like you are already aware of some of the reported issues such as the problem some of the Variaxes have had with palm muting causing weird artifacts from the piezos and the widespread dissatisfaction with the neck on the JTV69. I would suggest playing the model you are going to purchase if you can find one to try at a local music store. So..., seeing as you are already savvy regarding some of the reported issues I will just describe why I find mine so useful. I use my Variax JTV69s almost solely for live use so I have not used it in the studio where I would tend to just use, for example, an actual dobro if I needed one. I find it incredibly handy for alternate tunings. My other guitars have whammy bars and tuning them for one tune and then having to retune back to standard tuning is a prohibitively lengthy process during a show due to the whammy. The alternate tuning usually knocks the other strings out of tune as well on my main guitars requiring the entire guitar to be retuned so a quick switch to the Variax is a far superior option.

 

The Variax is also great as you would anticipate for songs that require an acoustic and electric part without necessitating guitar switches mid-song. I am not particularly good at getting a great acoustic strumming sound out of my Variax but I find the fingerpicking acoustic tones more than convincing enough for live use. I know some users have gotten good acoustic strum/rhythm sounds though so they seem to be in there. I prefer using my acoustic guitar unless the song requires both electric and acoustic parts but for those who can make it work that is one less guitar you require at the gig.  I have had issues periodically on my Variax with string buzz requiring saddle or truss rod adjustment, could just be humidity or temperature issues, YMMV.

 

Then there is the superb ability to assign parameters to the tone and volume knobs, e.g. turn up distortion and volume level with the Variax volume knob simultaneously. The ability to dial up an alternate guitar model just by stepping on a stomp switch is great - dobro to banjo with a click of a footswitch. Be prepared to have to spend some time adjusting your presets to sound good with the Variax models, I find they sometimes require some tweaking as you would expect depending on what Variax model you are using. Overall very happy to have a Variax in my arsenal, it is great way to leverage additional synergies between the Helix and Variax controls and as mentioned it really helps with alternate tunings, songs that require electric and acoustic parts, and potentially cutting down on the number of instruments required for a gig. It is also a great option with a ton of built-in flexibility for traveling light to a local jam session.

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I appreciate all the feedback.  As I expected there are a few gotcha's with the Variax...some expected, some not.  After considering all the input here and thinking about how I intend to use it...and doing a lot of online shopping I came to my decision and just ordered the following from Sweetwater:

 

Gretsch Resonator Guitar

 

It's a Gretsch G9221 electro acoustic resonator.  Aside from the possible issues with the Variax what really convinced me is that what's really driving my interest here is learning how to play a genuine resonator style.  Without significant changes to the Variax I don't think I'd really get the true resonator experience or really be able to explore the techniques completely in an authentic fashion.  Since I know the Gretsch name and build quality I feel really comfortable with this being the way to go and I can't tell you how excited I am to be starting on a new journey like this at the young age of 65...  ;)

 

So thanks again for all the feedback in helping me come to my decision on this.  I blame all of this on going to see that Keb' Mo' concert on Wednesday.  I should have factored this into the price I paid to go to that concert.  I should have seen that coming.....

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What a great thread! @DunedinDragon, @HonestOpinion, @cusionon2, @codamedia, thank your all for such thoughtful and helpful contribution. You guys a just great! 

 

I use a Helix and JTV-69S for gigging. I don't have large hands or long fingers, but I've become pretty fond of that fat JTV-69S neck. What I like is that it is stable, doesn't require truss rod adjustments for inside and outside gigs, stays in tune and fights me a little, making me play better. I had to put on a wider bone nut, and did change the pickups to SVL Daytonas. Now I can't stop playing that guitar even through I bring other much nicer guitars to gigs.

 

Re the models: I changed the pickups because I knew I was going to be using this guitar a lot on gigs. I like to use a lot of different sounds, including open tunings, slide and acoustic tones as well as different electric tones. But I needed a fail safe base guitar tone I could rely on, and the JTV-69S stock pickups just didn't deliver. I also have a Variax Standard and I thought those pickups sounded better, although I don't like the guitar nearly as much. So I invested in the SVL Daytonas from Jerry Amalfitano. I liked these so much I put another set on my Strat Deluxe. 

 

If you're gigging mainly with an electric guitar, and need an occasional open tuning, single vs. double coil pickup tone, and/or some acoustic tones, Variax with Helix is unbeatable. I was using a Variax 700 Acoustic for acoustic gigs, but switched to using my Martin 00C with some acoustic body IRs in Helix for those situations where I'm playing mostly acoustic guitar and mandolin. This just fit the gigs better.

 

I do have a Dobro, and if I want that sound on a recording, that's what I use. But I have used the Dobro models in an open tuning on that Variax 700 acoustic for an occasional live tune that needed it, but wasn't the focus of my role in the band. Its easy enough to get a tone that close enough for a live gig, but its much harder to get an instrument that plays and feels right to inspire you to play. A Variax can often provide the tone, but the feel is an entirely different issue.

 

 

 

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gotta watchout with variax standards. some of them are dogs. from one to the next some sound great and feel great, but some can be dogs where palm muting is just wrong sounding. i always just used the mag son my variax standard. this type of thing is only with the standards. so make sure you try it first dont buy a variax standard online

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I had my Helix for a year and a half and the possibilities with the Variax over VDI had intrigued me from almost the start.  A month ago I bought my JTV-59, and while I'm still in the honeymoon period, I've been quite pleased with it so far. 

 

The one major thing about it though, is just like the Helix, you need to do some tweaking and not be afraid to get your hands dirty in Workbench, which has its own learning curve.  It's got some playability out of the box, but it really shines when you make it your own.  When you couple it with the Helix, you get a lot of flexibility and options, and you can bend your sound around the modeling's shortcomings.  There's a lot of places to get lost crafting a tone, but when you do, it's gold.  While it's never THE exact guitar you're modeling, especially in terms of feel, it's close enough, and even closer in a mix. 

 

I've yet to have any real issues with palm muting.  Maybe my technique fits it well or something.  The neck is FAT though, as some have said.  I came from a PRS S2 Standard 24, and it's manageable for me, and I've got fat hands and short fingers.  I've heard some complaints about the acoustic sounds, but they're quite good enough for me with a mic preamp and some reverb.  You definitely need PA range for it though, the acoustic models sound like trash through a regular guitar amp, but then again so does any piezo acoustic.

 

Unfortunately I can't really speak for the resonator or banjo stuff, as that's not really in my style.  I will say that I can get lost for DAYS messing around with the Coral Sitar model.  I thickened mine up with some parallel pitch, fattened it by stacking a middle pickup on top the bridge pickup, and did something I can't recall to make the drones stand out.  I'll crank it into drop d and before I know it, it's 2:30am and I'm still wailing away on it.

 

 

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.... I do the same thing with a banjo model in open Am, run through an infinite delay with distortion, with copious amounts of codeine and Jack Daniels. 

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On 6/15/2018 at 5:14 AM, codamedia said:
  1. With Banjo you are confined to a 6-string faux banjo (used a lot in country these days) or a tenor plectrum style.... 5 - string can be faked, but is not easy. For a 5-String sound I have two patches depending on my need. On one patch I tune the high E down to a D which sacrifices the high G drone. On another I tune the high E up to a G but have to sacrifice the Banjo D string. Since I play real 5-string, it also takes a different technique with the high G being at the opposite end of neck than usual. 
  2. The acoustics, although quite nice, can sound a little thin due to the string composition and size. EG: If you put a set of nickel 10's on a real J-45 even it will sound thin - LOL! I have an acquaintance that plays a Variax most for acoustic sounds and he puts Phosphor Bronze strings on his. That makes a huge difference but when the acoustic instruments are secondary it isn't practical. This is where the addition of a nice IR can come in very handy to thicken and warm the tone.

 

1) There is a way to get the High G on the 5th string in the JTV Variax's. Fire up the the Workbench HD program's interface, call up the/a banjo. Click on the STRINGS tab. There are two tabs there. TUNING and PARALLEL PITCH. Make sure both of those are ON. Above those tabs are the strings VOLUME. Turn the 6th and 5th string volumes down to 0 and leave the rest of the strings at 100% Tune the 5th string to G (+10) (you can then also change the tuning of the rest of the strings). Click on the PARALLEL tab. tune the 5th string up an octave (+12). There is a MIX parameter in this tab. Turn all of the PARALLEL PITCH mix parameters down to 0 except for the 5th striing. Put that at 100%. It sounds TERRIBLE!!! But it does work. One thing that does make it work better is a partial capo but it is a pain. So you don't have to tune the 5th string up as much and you can then put the capo on only the 6th and 5th strings to compensate for the rest of the tuning. I would use the partial capo trick for performance although to be honest, it still ain't very good.

 

2) I've found that the 3 Sigma acoustic IR's do help with the acoustics on the JTV. I've only tried the Martin IR's. Only $10 so it was worth it to me to try. Not a major difference but a good one. It was worth it to me. Hey, I should try them on the banjo!!

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some variax standards are complete dogs. i sold mine after a year of fighting with it in the editor. my chugga's didnt chug, but i play my friends and his is awesome.

make sure u try it in the shop

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17 hours ago, brue58ski said:

I've found that the 3 Sigma acoustic IR's do help with the acoustics on the JTV. I've only tried the Martin IR's. Only $10 so it was worth it to me to try. Not a major difference but a good one. It was worth it to me. Hey, I should try them on the banjo!!

 

I've got a few acoustic IR's that work really well with my Variax acoustic patches. 

I've also created a batch of IR's from my Fishman JD Aura (Jerry Douglas Dobro model).... those work great on the resonator tones and the banjo tone. 

 

17 hours ago, brue58ski said:

Put that at 100%. It sounds TERRIBLE!!! But it does work.

 

If it sounds terrible, I really wouldn't be interested :) 

The variations I've set up all sound quite natural... they are just a little different to play than a standard 5 string banjo. 

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I've been considering Variax so I can transition between electric and acoustic seamlessly in a P&W environment. I decided on installing a piezo bridge on my strat instead. I'll be installing it this coming week. 

 

Maybe in the future I may go with Variax for on the fly tuning changes, but that is low on my priority list of "needs". 

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I don't use a Variax. I just went to the downloads page, looking to see if there was a new firmware update for Helix (Floor), and saw this "Workbench HD". Presumably, this is purely for Variax users only?

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1 hour ago, wilkinsi said:

I don't use a Variax. I just went to the downloads page, looking to see if there was a new firmware update for Helix (Floor), and saw this "Workbench HD". Presumably, this is purely for Variax users only?

 

Yes, that is the software for creating and editing presets for the guitar. 

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On 6/23/2018 at 4:21 AM, codamedia said:

 

If it sounds terrible, I really wouldn't be interested :) 

The variations I've set up all sound quite natural... they are just a little different to play than a standard 5 string banjo. 

 

Yeah I only use it to practice/learn how to play banjo. Still waiting to get one.

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On 6/23/2018 at 4:21 AM, codamedia said:

 

I've got a few acoustic IR's that work really well with my Variax acoustic patches. 

I've also created a batch of IR's from my Fishman JD Aura (Jerry Douglas Dobro model).... those work great on the resonator tones and the banjo tone. 

 

Are any of these available anywhere? I'm still looking for "the" sound whatever that is but I know I'll know it when I hear it. I heard it with my original Varaix and the mic preamp in the POD X3.

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20 hours ago, brue58ski said:

Are any of these available anywhere?

 

This is a batch if acoustic IR's that I downloaded, then weeded through to find a few I liked.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/f2qdh9jtcl6s5cv/AACRlEt-UVeLAhuvV4YwMY7Wa?dl=0 

 

It is discussed and linked at this L6 thread....

https://line6.com/support/topic/16855-acoustic-guitar-impulse-response/

 

As for the Fishman JD Aura IR's, I don't have the right to give these away. I own a JD Aura and created them myself so I didn't have to haul another piece of gear to a gig. I'm sure Fishman doesn't mind that I've done that for myself, but I'd be a little trouble if I shared it around the net. 

 

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2 hours ago, codamedia said:

 

This is a batch if acoustic IR's that I downloaded, then weeded through to find a few I liked.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/f2qdh9jtcl6s5cv/AACRlEt-UVeLAhuvV4YwMY7Wa?dl=0 

 

It is discussed and linked at this L6 thread....

https://line6.com/support/topic/16855-acoustic-guitar-impulse-response/

 

As for the Fishman JD Aura IR's, I don't have the right to give these away. I own a JD Aura and created them myself so I didn't have to haul another piece of gear to a gig. I'm sure Fishman doesn't mind that I've done that for myself, but I'd be a little trouble if I shared it around the net. 

 

 

Thank you very much!!!!

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I have a JTV69 and it is a terrible guitar, I have had nothing but trouble with it.

 

It has been back to Line6, I expected a sorry and a new guitar but they sent it back to me telling me it was of standard quality. You can't even intonate it properly as there is not enough adjustment on two of the screws, to me it looks like the bridge is in the wrong place!

 

I would steer clear of them myself.

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Does the variax allow you to send individual strings to different/multiple paths?

 

Say string EAD to path 1 and GBE to path 2?

Or EA to path 1 and EADGBE to path 2? (For those playing without a bass playee in rheir band ;)

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No, the variax doesn't allow you to do so, easily.

 

It reminds me a jason sadites' vid in wich he splitted the signal in two ones following the frequencies.

So you can do so, Path 1 split with crossover following the frequencies and you have different amp/cab on Path A and path B (there's no need of variax for that)

 

The other possibility is to send the variax models on path 1 and the variax magnetics pickups on path 2 (but you will have all the strings).....

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1 hour ago, SteveFrance said:

It reminds me a jason sadites' vid in wich he splitted the signal in two ones following the frequencies.

So you can do so, Path 1 split with crossover following the frequencies and you have different amp/cab on Path A and path B (there's no need of variax for that)

 

I remember reading an article Craig Anderton wrote on how to make a mono guitar signal "wider" in the stereo spectrum. This is for a DAW but you can apply it to the Helix. It essentially uses three paths. The original mono track, then two copies of that track on separate tracks for three tracks total. the original track panned to the middle then one track EQ'ed so it's all high frequencies and the other track EQ'ed so it's all low frequencies. So the original is in the middle with the Highs split to the right and the lows split to the left. You'll probably need to use both paths in the Helix, splitting them both and do some creative panning and mixing but it can be done I think. Here's the article with the specific EQ's. It amazed me how well it worked in my DAW. I'm gonna work on applying it to the Helix tonight.

 

The first step in simulating the effect of being close to the guitar was to copy the original guitar track to two more tracks. The first clone provided the "squeak" component by including a highpass filter that cut off the low end starting around 1kHz. This was panned toward the right. The second clone for the "boom" channel used a lowpass filter with a sharp cutoff from 400Hz on up. This was panned to the left.

 

Adding these two tracks to the main track pulled out some of the "finger squeaks" and "boom" components that were in the original sound, and positioned them in a more realistic stereo location. This also stretched the stereo image somewhat. And because these signals were extracted from one mic, there were none of the phasing problems associated with multiple mics.

 

As to mixing these three elements, the drastic amounts of high and lowpass filtering on the cloned channels brought their overall levels way down, even without touching the channel fader. If you isolate these tracks, it seems as if their impact would be non-existent due to the low level and restricted frequency range. But if you mix them in with the main channel, the entire sound comes to life.

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