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royp

MIDI BUG?

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Bought Helix recently and like it as a modeller but I also need it to do some midi control of external devices.  I have set up 10 toggle midi stomps (stomp mode is set to 10 switches).  I've also set up 8 snapshots with one or two of the stomps having bypass state varying across the different snapshots - pretty straight forward.  Except I'm getting midi output that does not match the state of the corresponding Helix foot switch.  When switching patches I'm seeing midi values corresponding to a "lit" footswitch when there isn't one.  Also, sometimes when switching snapshots in snapshot mode, getting midi commands generated for a activated stomp when no stomp was pressed.  I'm really tearing my hair out over this and ready to return the unit since generating midi consistently is essential for me.  

 

Anyone have any advice?

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Are you setting up midi on the devices using all the default settings, or are you explicitly setting each midi channel and command? 

In my experience, most unexpected results occur because by default everything listens to everything else. 

 

 

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To trouble shoot I'm only listening to the Helix through a midi monitor connected directly to Helix midi out.  I've got no foot switches enabled (lit) but when switching snapshots in snapshot mode, I'm seeing midi messages indicating a foot switch has been turned on.  It tends to be the same foot switch but it will vary from time to time.  I've rechecked command center to confirm all my foot switches are set correctly (off) in all the snap shots.  I've tried this with and without actual Helix effect blocks attached to the foot switch, and when blocks are attached, that the on/off state of all blocks is set to off in every snap shot.  It seems like the initial foot switch values are not initialized somehow.   I thought at one point it had to do with using 10 foot switches as foot switches 1 and 7 often seemed to behave this way (the ones revealed by 10 switih mode), but I gave up that theory when other switch started randomly generating "on" events with no lit switch.  This is a B-stock unit - maybe it's defective if noone else seems to have this issue.

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Are you using the plain MIDI CCs or the CC Toggle command?

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1 hour ago, royp said:

I've got no foot switches enabled (lit) but when switching snapshots in snapshot mode, I'm seeing midi messages indicating a foot switch has been turned on.  

 

Have you looked into the "instant commands" on the Helix to see if something is triggering from there? Any program change or snapshot change will also trigger any instant commands.

 

Not sure if this one applies or not, but program changes and bank up/down are also transmitted by default on all channels. If you don't want that to occur you must turn it off in the global settings. 

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I would say open up a support ticket. They'll probably ask to see your preset. If you want to put it up here, I can take a look at it later.

 

When I messed around with this sort of stuff after the 2.60 update, everything seemed to be working as it should. But I never tried it with 10 toggles.

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No instant commands are active.

 

I've also changed from 10 stomp switches to 8 thinking that may be the issue - but no change:  Snapshot changes are generating stomp switch activation midi commands when no stomps are activated.  I've checked again that all stomps are off initially in all snapshots.

 

Have tried with and without editor running.

 

I'm now running just one midi cable from Helix out to computer running midi monitor.

 

Fyi - I'm on fw 2.6.

 

Sure is looking like a bug to me unless it's this particular unit.

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14 minutes ago, royp said:

No instant commands are active.

 

I've also changed from 10 stomp switches to 8 thinking that may be the issue - but no change:  Snapshot changes are generating stomp switch activation midi commands when no stomps are activated.  I've checked again that all stomps are off initially in all snapshots.

 

Have tried with and without editor running.

 

I'm now running just one midi cable from Helix out to computer running midi monitor.

 

Fyi - I'm on fw 2.6.

 

Sure is looking like a bug to me unless it's this particular unit.

 

Well, the CC value for the dim position will be shot out when you first load the preset, assuming the active snapshot has all the toggle set to that. Then if you go to another snapshot and have some of the toggles on, the values for those toggles should be shot out. Then if you go back to a snapshot where those toggle are off, the dim value should be shot out. The whole idea is that the values for the CC Toggles that change from one snapshot to the next will be shot out.

 

In the Global Settings menu, do you have the Snapshot Edits parameter set to Discard or Recall?

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1 hour ago, phil_m said:

 

Well, the CC value for the dim position will be shot out when you first load the preset, assuming the active snapshot has all the toggle set to that. Then if you go to another snapshot and have some of the toggles on, the values for those toggles should be shot out. Then if you go back to a snapshot where those toggle are off, the dim value should be shot out. The whole idea is that the values for the CC Toggles that change from one snapshot to the next will be shot out.

 

In the Global Settings menu, do you have the Snapshot Edits parameter set to Discard or Recall?

 

Thanks for the reply.

 

I have snapshot edits set to "discard" because I don't want changes I make to carry across snapshots - I've tried "recall" as well and had the same issue.  I also have the Duplicate PC Send parameter turned on because I want the program changes to be generated and send downstream in midi (have also tried turning off this parameter but same issue).

 

The behaviour you describe is what I expect for midi generation.  I'm testing with a simple case:  8 stomps all initially set to off in all snapshots, no instant controllers active, all switch controllers set to Dim-0 / Lit-127 in all snapshot.  In this scenario without activating any stomps I'm getting stomp activation midi messages generated on snapshot changes.  Even on preset load, I'm getting some stomp switches showing active when they are not.  The misbehaving switches seems to randomly change once in a while If I continuously reload the preset.

 

I thought maybe this was a problem where by snapshot change button clicks in snapshot mode are activating the equivalent underlying stomp, but not even - usually the erroneous stomp message is coming from a different physical switch in stomp mode from the switch I click in snapshot mode.

 

I'm stumped.  I can't see any consistent pattern or cause/effect.

 

 

 

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Open up a support ticket. It's the main mechanism for Line 6 to deal with these sorts of bugs and diagnose problems.

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Same issue here. While in snapshot mode,  selecting a snapshot triggers the underlying midi command mapped on the same foot-switch in the stomp mode.

 

When Line 6 released the 2.81, I was quite impressed that the hotkey functionality was introduced and ya bugs are expected but I thought that would be sorted out in 2.82. I  hoped for too much.  I had issues the hotkeys. Working on Presets with programmed hotkeys will more often than not caused HXEdit to crash, or the hotkeys will just randomly reset its parameters. I have stopped using hotkeys and midi in the helix it is so unreliable that I resorted to getting the Nektar Pacer to control my DAW. Lost a lot of time trying to get the midis and hotkeys to work. Very useful tool if Line 6 can make it work but for now it causes more disappointment and frustration than anything else.

 

Snapshot Mode

image.thumb.png.0eb47243c19886fbd5963769ddeb41f3.png

 

Stomp Mode

image.png.5bc203e55deab9a3576c03bf41e70671.png

 

 

 

 

 

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4 minutes ago, Yenali said:

Same issue here. While in snapshot mode,  selecting a snapshot mode  triggers the underlying midi command mapped on the same foot-switch in the stomp mode.

 

When Line 6 released the 2.81, I was quite impressed that the hotkey functionality was introduced and ya bugs are expected but I thought that would be sorted out in 2.82. I  hoped for too much.  I had issues the hotkeys. Working on Presets with programmed hotkeys will more often than not caused HXEdit to crash, or the hotkeys will just randomly reset its parameters. I have stopped using hotkeys and midi in the helix it is so unreliable that I resorted to getting the Nektar Pacer to control my DAW. Lost a lot of time trying to get the midis and hotkeys to work. Very useful tool if Line 6 can make it work but for now it causes more disappointment and frustration than anything else.

 

Snapshot Mode

image.thumb.png.0eb47243c19886fbd5963769ddeb41f3.png

 

Stomp Mode

image.png.5bc203e55deab9a3576c03bf41e70671.png

 

 

 

 

 

 

I believe that the Hotkeys commands works like other commands assigned to footswitches in the fact that you can have a different value assigned to the footswitch for each snapshot, and when you change snapshots, that value will be shot out if it's different than the snapshot you're coming from. Not saying for sure that's what's happening, but it may be worth looking into.

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