Simplest way to have some stage noise

[endemolash]

So when I play live I am planning to go straight into the PA, I am aware I can use the monitors as a way to hear myself but my goal is just to be able to turn up to any show with just my helix and my guitar. I am looking for a way that I could just plug into any stock amp they have just to use as some stage noise for band mates, myself etc. I have read a lot on here about this kind of thing but as I am pretty new to this I would appreciate if someone could address my situation. I am trying to eliminate any need to take my own speaker or amp etc. 

Is this possible and how? Using the amp effects loop?

Much appreciated to anyone who replies. 

[rd2rk]

Send your mono XLR OUT to FOH (in Globals, set XLR to mic level), mix some guitar into the monitors.

 

In addition, if there's a backline amp or the monitors are self-powered, take the 1/4" Mono Out to the amp (instrument level) or powered monitor (mic or line level). In Globals, set the Volume Knob to control ONLY the 1/4" Out. That way, FOH gets a steady 0db signal level from the XLR, and you have control of your amp/monitor level.

[rvroberts]

OK - the answer above is correct as far as it goes.  But it sounds like you aren't very technical?

The monitors on stage in a well set up PA should do the job.  A half decent sound person should be able to send you a mix that features your guitar (coming direct from the Helix to the PA) so you can hear yourself well enough. He should also be able to give your band mates a mix where they hear you as well as they want.

What's wrong with this picture?

First you are totally in the hands of that soundie. That's not a good thing unless you work together all the time.  Getting what you need has no guarantees. Experienced players will tell you to expect the worst. 

What you want to do is totally possible - the question is how likely are you to have a good experience gig after gig?  Not very if you work in different places with different conditions regularly.  And your band mates - they don't tend to get louder during the gig do they??........beginning to see the problem?

You totally want a sound source on stage that you can rely on - if you don't have your own sound guy and always have good monitoring - don't expect it to work out.

FRFR is as simple as one decent powered wedge - you can get something OK for $300-400 - once you have EQ'd for that and can get a sound you can play with - you have a reproduceable  on stage sound.  It's so comforting to know you will get the same sound every night!  Also, you start to  get the other things you expect from a guitar rig, like some interaction between the guitar and the amp - sustain caused by the interaction of volume hitting your strings and vibrating them.

Don't even consider trying to plug into the effects return of some back line amp supplied - there are way to many variables - you will have more bad experiences than you want to know about!  There is no setting that just works for every amp.

You would not be the first to try this- and some might mostly have an OK experience - but I'm betting not many!

Own soundie - work decent venues - always have good monitoring - no problem!  if not - don't!

[rd2rk]

1 hour ago, rvroberts said:

OK - the answer above is correct as far as it goes.  But it sounds like you aren't very technical?

The monitors on stage in a well set up PA should do the job.  A half decent sound person should be able to send you a mix that features your guitar (coming direct from the Helix to the PA) so you can hear yourself well enough. He should also be able to give your band mates a mix where they hear you as well as they want.

What's wrong with this picture?

First you are totally in the hands of that soundie. That's not a good thing unless you work together all the time.  Getting what you need has no guarantees. Experienced players will tell you to expect the worst. 

What you want to do is totally possible - the question is how likely are you to have a good experience gig after gig?  Not very if you work in different places with different conditions regularly.  And your band mates - they don't tend to get louder during the gig do they??........beginning to see the problem?

You totally want a sound source on stage that you can rely on - if you don't have your own sound guy and always have good monitoring - don't expect it to work out.

FRFR is as simple as one decent powered wedge - you can get something OK for $300-400 - once you have EQ'd for that and can get a sound you can play with - you have a reproduceable  on stage sound.  It's so comforting to know you will get the same sound every night!  Also, you start to  get the other things you expect from a guitar rig, like some interaction between the guitar and the amp - sustain caused by the interaction of volume hitting your strings and vibrating them.

Don't even consider trying to plug into the effects return of some back line amp supplied - there are way to many variables - you will have more bad experiences than you want to know about!  There is no setting that just works for every amp.

You would not be the first to try this- and some might mostly have an OK experience - but I'm betting not many!

Own soundie - work decent venues - always have good monitoring - no problem!  if not - don't!

 

Everything I said, plus what he said times 100.

[kylotan]

Add a send block, before your cab block. Take a cable from the relevant send output to the input of the amp, or better still, the effects input/return. Ensure the amp is on the cleanest channel it has with everything set to produce minimal colouration.

 

Caveats:

1. If the venue has a reliable and flexible monitoring setup then you won't need the amp anyway.
2. If the venue doesn't have a reliable and flexible monitoring setup and you can't borrow an amp, you're screwed.
3. If the amp you borrow doesn't have a sufficiently clean channel or an effects return, it's going to sound bad.

[rd2rk]

4 hours ago, kylotan said:

Add a send block, before your cab block. Take a cable from the relevant send output to the input of the amp, or better still, the effects input/return. Ensure the amp is on the cleanest channel it has with everything set to produce minimal colouration.

 

Caveats:

1. If the venue has a reliable and flexible monitoring setup then you won't need the amp anyway.
2. If the venue doesn't have a reliable and flexible monitoring setup and you can't borrow an amp, you're screwed.
3. If the amp you borrow doesn't have a sufficiently clean channel or an effects return, it's going to sound bad.

 

If you're using a backline amp and you don't like how using a Helix cab through a real cab sounds, just assign a footswitch to turn off the Helix cab. Then you can still use the 1/4" out and control the level with the volume knob.

[kylotan]

But then your sound through the PA would be lacking the cab sim, right?

(Also, I never operate in anything other than 8 Snapshot mode, so putting it on a switch would never work for me. :)  )

 

Ideally if you're going straight into the desk then I'd think you wouldn't need to control the level with the volume knob - they can change the gain on the mixer within reason.

 

 

 

[rd2rk]

3 hours ago, kylotan said:

But then your sound through the PA would be lacking the cab sim, right?

(Also, I never operate in anything other than 8 Snapshot mode, so putting it on a switch would never work for me. :)  )

 

Ideally if you're going straight into the desk then I'd think you wouldn't need to control the level with the volume knob - they can change the gain on the mixer within reason.

 

 

Oops! You are correct about the cab sim (not enough coffee syndrome)!

 

The FOH guy can certainly control his level in the monitor mix, but if there's only one monitor mix it has to work for everybody. Being able to use the volume knob allows him to get a little extra of him in his onstage mix without having to run back and forth to the amp for adjustments.

 

The problem with putting the Send before the cab is that he loses any effects he put after the cab -  delay, reverb, that sort of thing.

 

He could run a separate path with duplicate post amp effects if he has enough DSP, but there's no way to tune his presets for every possible backline amp he might come across, and every preset would need to be custom.

 

There's no real good (and simple) solution if he cares what he sounds like on stage and wants to use a guitar amp as monitor. If he MUST use a backline guitar amp, he's best off just sending it the full preset, and using the amp's tonestack (or a little stomp eq pedal) to compensate for the Helix cab. IME, the Helix amp/cab combo sometimes sounds better through a guitar amp than the Helix amp or preamp alone. He implied that he really doesn't care what it sounds like on stage, he just wants to hear something, so, whatever.

 

Way to go (IMO) is FOH monitor mix and, if there's only one mix, an FRFR cab so he can hear himself above the monitor mix.

 

Myself, I have to trust the FOH guy to make it sound good up front, but what I sound like on stage affects how I play and how much fun I'm having doing it! I sure don't do it for the money....

[jbuhajla]

Yep, I let FOH handle my sound in the house, and I control what I hear on stage so I stay inspired while playing. If monitoring on wedges, have one wedge with the stage mix, then add your own wedge and go direct from Helix to that dedicated wedge just for guitar. Then you can control just the guitar coming out of the one wedge, while the stage mix is in the other wedge.