Changes to legacy effects over the ages

[kylotan]

I tried using the legacy Analog Chorus effect in a Helix chain today, but it didn't have nearly as much depth as my original Pod XT version of the effect. However, I never owned a Pod HD, so I don't know if the effect was somehow dialed back a bit for that unit, and then perhaps that version was the one ported to the Helix. Does anyone know if this is the case, or are there other instances of the legacy effects not quite sounding the same in the Helix?

[phil_m]

The Legacy effects are the ones that were modeled for the 4-button stomps and then the M-series pedals, and then eventually the HD series. The effects that were in the XT/X3 series weren't the same, even in the cases where they shared the same model names (there are a few exceptions - there were 12 M-series effects that were added to the X3 in its 2.0 update).

[arislaf]

1 hour ago, kylotan said:

I tried using the legacy Analog Chorus effect in a Helix chain today, but it didn't have nearly as much depth as my original Pod XT version of the effect. However, I never owned a Pod HD, so I don't know if the effect was somehow dialed back a bit for that unit, and then perhaps that version was the one ported to the Helix. Does anyone know if this is the case, or are there other instances of the legacy effects not quite sounding the same in the Helix?

Agree. When i got my hd500 i got socked of how weak was the effects. Pod xt had better effects than the hd, at least on the mod sector.

[kylotan]

14 hours ago, phil_m said:

The Legacy effects are the ones that were modeled for the 4-button stomps and then the M-series pedals, and then eventually the HD series. The effects that were in the XT/X3 series weren't the same, even in the cases where they shared the same model names (there are a few exceptions - there were 12 M-series effects that were added to the X3 in its 2.0 update).

 

That's exactly the type of answer I was hoping to get, even if it is exactly the answer I was hoping I wouldn't receive. :)

 

So, to recreate my Pod XT tones, I just have to try and pick out something that sounds similar, right?

 

It's hard enough trying to recreate the amp sounds - the Helix amp/cab pairings have barely any frequencies above 6Khz which makes them sound incredibly muffled compared to the Pod XT ones.

[cruisinon2]

4 hours ago, kylotan said:

 the Helix amp/cab pairings have barely any frequencies above 6Khz which makes them sound incredibly muffled compared to the Pod XT ones.

 

Depends on what you're playing it through, I suppose... but I think just about everybody around here would argue that point all day long. One of the top 3 complaints is the need to get rid of the everything above 6KHz ... if it ain't there, where is the much maligned high end fizz coming from that we're all dialing out constantly? 

[codamedia]

3 hours ago, kylotan said:

- the Helix amp/cab pairings have barely any frequencies above 6Khz which makes them sound incredibly muffled compared to the Pod XT ones.

 

That is the complete opposite of what the vast majority complain about. 

 

I never owned the XT but I did use an X3 live for many years which I believe was the same models. I recall the amps sounding dull and lifeless compared to the next generations. Again... the opposite of what you are suggesting. 

[kylotan]

I should have known someone would argue with this, even though I am testing this exact thing right now.

 

In general the Pod XT had much more high end, and it's easy to check if you have access to both side-by-side. Sadly I don't have Pod Farm to test on exactly the same input recordings but I do have the Pod XT Live and so I played the same part through that and through Helix Native.

 

Pod XT Criminal (left) vs Helix PV Panama (right), same chords, same guitar, same amp settings, equivalent cab models (4x12, 57 on axis). No effects.

 

Next up:

Pod XT Blackface (left) vs Helix US Deluxe Nrm (right), same chords, same guitar, same amp settings, equivalent cab models (1x12, 67 condenser). No effects. 

 

Most of that Pod XT high end is probably digital aliasing noise that you don't want, the 'fizz' everyone used to complain about on Line 6 products before the Helix. (The unnaturally smooth falloff gives it away.) This is part of why the Helix is a much better unit. But I was never arguing that the Pod XT was better, just that it had more top end. Here I can see that although the low mids are about the same, the high mids on the Fender Deluxe model on the Helix are very reduced. Look at the characteristic peaks at 3.2KHz and 4.1KHz, both being about 24dB quieter on the Helix. That makes a huge difference to how bright it sounds and especially in reverb tails.

 

The problem I have is that I created some really crisp tones on the Pod XT that are very hard to replicate on the Helix. Those imperfections of the old units have their own character which I enjoyed in my recordings. The new effects blocks often have these parameters available to match the real world units, but I'd like to be able to get the old Pod XT amps and their imperfections too.