HD Model Suggestions

[adam79]

Hey, I currently have a POD XT on it's death bed and I'm looking to replace it with a used HD model.

 

I've read that the 300 and 400 are pretty much the same. Then the 500/500x take it up a notch. Do the patches sound better or is it more about the additional options like 8 effects at once instead of 4, MIDI out, effects loop and some kinda Variax support?

 

I usually record dry unless I need to play off an effect on the way in. I also don't care about any of those additional features that I just mentioned.

 

It's all about the sound quality of the patches for me. I'll just be using this unit to record with so I can have demos for the band I'm starting. I'll use it when we first start practicing and eventually move on to a real amp.

 

So with all this in mind, I'm trying to figure out if it's really worth double the cash to grab a 500 instead of a 300 or 400.

 

Thanks.

[pianoguyy]

1. At $200 for a used 500 (because you cannot buy a new 300 or 400), you shouldn't be too concerned with the price difference. 

 

2. If you record dry, and don't plan on using much of anything on the unit, what do you want the unit for?

 

3. Why on earth would you "eventually move on to a real amp"?

[napynap]

5 hours ago, pianoguyy said:

1. At $200 for a used 500 (because you cannot buy a new 300 or 400), you shouldn't be too concerned with the price difference. 

 

2. If you record dry, and don't plan on using much of anything on the unit, what do you want the unit for?

 

3. Why on earth would you "eventually move on to a real amp"?

 

Pianoguy:

1,) I agree

2.) Great question

3.) Although I've been using PodHD desktop direct to PA for years, I actually just bought a VOX AC15 as an alternate setup to sit in as a guest with other bands where I don't know if the PA/monitor will be adequate (or operators of it), and for jam sessions or house party jams. For those situations, I used to bring PodHD desktop w/FBV along with an Alto 10 monitor, but it was a lot of cables and cumbersome setup. So there's an example of some situations where the option of a real amp can be beneficial. Having said all of that, I would never 'move on' from PodHD because I'm still going to mainly use it for the right gig.

[joel_brown]

A used PODHD500 is cheap.  You don't need the PODHD500x.  They both sound the same and do the same things.  They ran out of chips for the PODHD500 and had to put in a comparable chip for the 500x and the updated the buttons.

 

Don't waste your money on the 300 or 400.

 

You may find out that you like the PODHD500 better than a real amp.  It's nice to have different tones that are easily accessible that you can carry into a gig under your arm instead of lugging an amp around with a bunch of finicky pedals.  

[pianoguyy]

11 hours ago, pianoguyy said:

3. Why on earth would you "eventually move on to a real amp"?

 

5 hours ago, napynap said:

3.) Although I've been using PodHD desktop direct to PA for years, I actually just bought a VOX AC15 as an alternate setup to sit in as a guest with other bands where I don't know if the PA/monitor will be adequate (or operators of it), and for jam sessions or house party jams. For those situations, I used to bring PodHD desktop w/FBV along with an Alto 10 monitor, but it was a lot of cables and cumbersome setup. So there's an example of some situations where the option of a real amp can be beneficial. Having said all of that, I would never 'move on' from PodHD because I'm still going to mainly use it for the right gig.

 

 

We all have "just in case" gear.  

But I was approaching his statement as being a "main situation" switch.  

 

[adam79]

The HD 500's Ive seen are more like 250-300$ Buy it Now. That's double the price of a 300/400.

 

I need something that I can plug directly into my Pro Tools interface, so I can use headphones and make no loud noise...living situation thing. I want an amp because I like playing thru one better than Amp Sims. Once I get to the point where I buy an amp, for band practice and shows, it'll will be months down the road. I'll still want to use the HD so I can write n record in silence.

I'm getting the pedal for quality and emulation. What does it matter if I'm using the included effects or not? I'm still getting clean and dirty amp tones, can use my own dirt, wah and other pedals. As well as the included lollipop.

 

I've been looking at other brands and stumbled across the VOX Tone Lab series. It seems pretty cool, and sounds decent enough in the YouTube demos Ive checked out. It also has a 12ax7 in it's power section, and it has a ST and SE model that adds one (ST) or two (SE) expression pedals. As well as some buttons two switch between specific, user chosen presets that can be flipped thru on the fly. Anyone ever try one of these? If so, how does it compare to the HDs?

 

[pianoguyy]

1 hour ago, adam79 said:

The HD 500's Ive seen are more like 250-300$ Buy it Now. That's double the price of a 300/400.

As someone who is in the retail business, I am not going to publicly give away trade secrets. 

But, I will say this - you need to look for used items. There is a reason why you see a thousand different "power sellers" with the same units priced at the same prices as each other. 

If you want to find out the true value of a used unit, sell you gear on a one day auction with no reserve and a $1 starting bid. 

 

1 hour ago, adam79 said:

I need something that I can plug directly into my Pro Tools interface,

There are far cheaper options without needing to buy a multi effects processor.

 

1 hour ago, adam79 said:

I want an amp because I like playing thru one better than Amp Sims.

I assume you mean playing through an amp vs playing though headphones.

If that is correct, I agree. I personally like an amp filling the room instead of being encapsulated in cones. 

But this is a business. It isn't about what we want. The crowds will much prefer that you are using a decent modeler direct to the pa. Which then get fed back to you through the monitors, whether they be on the floor or in the ear.

 

1 hour ago, adam79 said:

Once I get to the point where I buy an amp, for band practice and shows

You would be better off buying a flat system than a guitar amp. All you need is something that creates volume. The unit provides all of the tone. 

 

1 hour ago, adam79 said:

I'm getting the pedal for quality and emulation. 

Ah, my bad. When you said you record dry, to me, that means the actual dry signal - as if it came direct from your guitar. 

 

1 hour ago, adam79 said:

What does it matter if I'm using the included effects or not? I'm still getting clean and dirty amp tones, can use my own dirt, wah and other pedals. As well as the included lollipop.

It's your money. It's your career. You can do whatever you want to do. Most of us just try to help - not just with your own personal experience with the device, but also with passing along information that will improve the live entertainment industry as a whole. 

If you learn to use a device like the HD500, you should not need any thing else between you and the pa. Your sound will be consistent. The crowd's sound will be consistent, which provides a much better experience for them, which should help build a fanbase. Load in, set up, sound check, tear down, and load out should take a few minutes instead of numerous hours. 

 

 

The reason for the questions: 

It is all about getting what is best for you, even it means not getting the ones we like...

The alternative is you get the wrong unit for your needs and then come back and bash an outstanding product just because you didn't do your homework. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[adam79]

5 minutes ago, pianoguyy said:

As someone who is in the retail business, I am not going to publicly give away trade secrets. 

But, I will say this - you need to look for used items. There is a reason why you see a thousand different "power sellers" with the same units priced at the same prices as each other. 

If you want to find out the true value of a used unit, sell you gear on a one day auction with no reserve and a $1 starting bid. 

 

There are far cheaper options without needing to buy a multi effects processor.

 

I assume you mean playing through an amp vs playing though headphones.

If that is correct, I agree. I personally like an amp filling the room instead of being encapsulated in cones. 

But this is a business. It isn't about what we want. The crowds will much prefer that you are using a decent modeler direct to the pa. Which then get fed back to you through the monitors, whether they be on the floor or in the ear.

 

You would be better off buying a flat system than a guitar amp. All you need is something that creates volume. The unit provides all of the tone. 

 

Ah, my bad. When you said you record dry, to me, that means the actual dry signal - as if it came direct from your guitar. 

 

It's your money. It's your career. You can do whatever you want to do. Most of us just try to help - not just with your own personal experience with the device, but also with passing along information that will improve the live entertainment industry as a whole. 

If you learn to use a device like the HD500, you should not need any thing else between you and the pa. Your sound will be consistent. The crowd's sound will be consistent, which provides a much better experience for them, which should help build a fanbase. Load in, set up, sound check, tear down, and load out should take a few minutes instead of numerous hours. 

 

 

The reason for the questions: 

It is all about getting what is best for you, even it means not getting the ones we like...

The alternative is you get the wrong unit for your needs and then come back and bash an outstanding product just because you didn't do your homework. 

 

 

 

Dude, you arent understanding my intentions here. Asking about the HD models on this Line 6 forum is part of my research. I'm asking your guys opinions on the different HD models. That's all. Im not gonna bash anyone or even write back when I buy my unit. Just want some advice on the stuff that has interested me. Keep all your secrets, I could care less about them. I just wanna hear how u guys like the HD series and preferred models. Thanks everyone.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[spaceatl]

Have an XT, HD400 and HD Desktop. HD400 is a great little pedal but I stopped using it when I got the HD Desktop. 400 is laid out a lot like the XT with the semi-fixed chain. I have been using the HD Desktop with a shortboard for a very long time now and have been very happy with that setup...The 8 FX blocks that can be ordered anyway you want with dual paths is something the 300 and 400s cannot do.  That was really what did it for me...dual chains to run FX parallel, dual tones or whatever. It is both my bass rig and guitar rig...The HD400 could do it, just not as well...especially for recording...

[joel_brown]

If I remember correctly...the PODHD 400 can't do dual amps like the PODHD 500.  Some of the better tones you hear are from combining 2 amp models together.  This one feature is worth the extra money.

 

Other than that they sound the same other than the 500 gives you more flexibility in how you arrange your FX blocks and amps.

 

Bottom line: don't skimp on 50 bucks.  I just checked eBay and both are about the same price.  You'll have to bid on it and NOT press Buy Now and should be able to get a 500 for around $200 to $250.

[adam79]

16 minutes ago, joel_brown said:

If I remember correctly...the PODHD 400 can't do dual amps like the PODHD 500.  Some of the better tones you hear are from combining 2 amp models together.  This one feature is worth the extra money.

 

Other than that they sound the same other than the 500 gives you more flexibility in how you arrange your FX blocks and amps.

 

Bottom line: don't skimp on 50 bucks.  I just checked eBay and both are about the same price.  You'll have to bid on it and NOT press Buy Now and should be able to get a 500 for around $200 to $250.

 

The dual amp thing sounds pretty amazing. What does the 500x have over the 500?

[duncann]

2 hours ago, adam79 said:

 

The dual amp thing sounds pretty amazing. What does the 500x have over the 500?

 

About 20% more DSP. If you're thinking you'll make use of dual amps, that extra DSP is worth it. With the non X, there isn't much room left for other effects. On average, you might get a delay, compressor, distortion, and maybe a reverb, depending on the amp models used. With the 500X, there's still enough room for significantly more effects while using dual amps.

[joel_brown]

I already answered the difference between a 500 and 500x earlier. 

 

Than ran out of chips for the 500 and put in a comparable chip in the 500x.  Technically the 500x has a tiny bit more power and you might be able to squeeze in 1 more effect.  The buttons were upgraded on the 500x too.  This is why the 500's are cheaper, even though it's basically the same thing and sound the same.

[adam79]

33 minutes ago, joel_brown said:

I already answered the difference between a 500 and 500x earlier. 

 

Than ran out of chips for the 500 and put in a comparable chip in the 500x.  Technically the 500x has a tiny bit more power and you might be able to squeeze in 1 more effect.  The buttons were upgraded on the 500x too.  This is why the 500's are cheaper, even though it's basically the same thing and sound the same.

 

Right on. If you only get 1 more FX than I'll just go with the 500. Thanks again for the info. That was the type of response I've been waiting for.

I don't go FX heavy when recording so the X seems like it's unessasary.

 

I was gonna go with that VOX Tone Lab ST I mentioned earlier. That thing also seems rad. Especially how it has a 12ax7 in the power section and an expression pedal.

I think that the HD500 might be the better move. I'm gonna check out some YouTube demos when I'm done writing this.

[cruisinon2]

30 minutes ago, adam79 said:

Especially how it has a 12ax7 in the power section...

 

Shoving a 12AX7 into a solid state power amp to allegedly provide "tube tone" or "warmth" is a decades old marketing ploy. A power amp is either tube driven, or it's not....a preamp tube dumped into a power section is window dressing. 

[napynap]

19 hours ago, pianoguyy said:

 

 

 

We all have "just in case" gear.  

But I was approaching his statement as being a "main situation" switch.  

 

Ah ok, I just took that 'Why on earth' question a little too literally. I see what you're asking. Good points.

[codamedia]

If it were me... and I couldn't afford the 500, I would look for another used XT or X3 to hold me over rather than going for a 300/400. 

 

YES - the HD can sound better after you take the time to learn it... but it doesn't have the features of the older XT and X3. With the HD500 you will overlook the missing features A) because it sounds better & B) because it's extremely flexible in how you lay out the chain - which is a great feature of it's own. The 300/400 still limits your chain flexibility & they lose a boat load of features. Aside from the sound (which is debatable), I think you would feel like you took a step back. 

 

Just my 2 cents...

 

 

[pianoguyy]

fresh out of the box, there is a huge difference between the 500 and the 500x. That is because one was shipped with newer firmware. But if you update both units (computer required, phones, tablets, and "lightweight" computers do not work) to the same firmware, there is no difference - other than the previously mentioned DSP and footswitches. 

 

 

19 hours ago, adam79 said:

If you only get 1 more FX than I'll just go with the 500

But it isn't "1 more fx". Both units are limited to 2 amps and 8 effects. 

The "1 more fx" is more like... 

It is like a car warranty. 10 years or 10,000 miles, whichever comes first. Both units have a DSP limit. The X units have more DSP. 

This only comes into play if you are doing something like running 2 amps and 8 stereo delays. 

 

You can easily use 2 amps and 8 effects on the 500. But there are certain combinations that will eat up the DSP limit more than others, therefore not allowing you to use the patch. In fact, the same can be said for the 500x - you can build patches that use all of the DSP on the 500x, and can't be used.