Helix vs UX2 Interface?

[TheOfficialAGP]

I've been looking into getting a helix, I currently use the UX2 into pod farm. Does the Helox work just as good or better?

I would like if I were able to record a dry input into my daw, but also use the helix to control effects in helix native in real time while recording. Not sure if that's possible?

[JLondon]

I think you'll find both the Helix and Native to be light years ahead of Pod.  But I am new to recording myself and am anxious to hear what others have to say concerning live control of effects.  To my knowledge, the only control you have over your dry signal while using Native is the volume/tone knobs and pup switch on the guitar - and that the Helix board won't control what's happening in Native - and you have to depend upon automation 'after' creating your dry signal to switch between effects or control them.  This is totally counter intuitive to me (in the creativity sense).  Anyway, I hope I'm wrong and as I said - am anxious to see what others have to say.

[datacommando]

On 10/7/2018 at 5:14 AM, TheOfficialAGP said:

I've been looking into getting a helix, I currently use the UX2 into pod farm. Does the Helox work just as good or better?

I would like if I were able to record a dry input into my daw, but also use the helix to control effects in helix native in real time while recording. Not sure if that's possible?

 

Hi,

 

Helix is far superior to what you are currently using.

 

Recording and re-amping with Helix is extremely simple with 8 channels of USB. This will allow you to record your sound in stereo on USB 1 and 2, and simultaneously the unaltered dry signal on USB channel 7.

 

I don’t quite understand what you mean by “but also use the helix to control effects in helix native in real time while recording”.  It’s not quite the best way to work with this technology. Native is a complete Helix in software, minus expression pedals.

 

Once you have a recording of your “dry” signal, you can simply send that signal back into your hardware Helix and though any alternative preset for a totally different sound. Plus you will have both hands free to play around with any parameters you wish to manipulate. Furthermore, you mention Helix Native. Again, once you have the basic “dry” sound captured in your DAW, by utilising whatever audio interface you wish, you can run that through Native and change things as you want. It’s extremely simply.

 

So, to summarise, a hardware version of Helix will allow you to capture pristine audio into you DAW for the purposes of re-amping or further modification. If you are already capable of getting audio to your computer, then Native will do everything via software. Note, I have both Native and a Helix Floor unit. If the hardware has to travel elsewhere, I still can work on audio projects in the studio using all the same amp presets, effects etc, through Native. It’s the mutts nuts, and you can forget about POD Farm (I would never consider it now), the amps and effects are far higher quality and Line 6 have ported all the Legacy FX from the older modelling units into the Helix range.

 

Hope this helps/makes sense.

 

Also, have a quick look at this to see it at work:

 

 

 

 

[JLondon]

5 hours ago, datacommando said:

 

I don’t quite understand what you mean by “but also use the helix to control effects in helix native in real time while recording”.  It’s not quite the best way to work with this technology. Native is a complete Helix in software, minus expression pedals.

I think he simply means that, like myself, wants to be able to use the Helix, as an expression pedal and effect changer, in conjunction with Native during recording so that we can use wah, change from clean to distortion, visa-versa, etc.  I think we all understand the blessing of being able to post process the dry signal with native.  But in the creative sense, it's soooo sterile to have to create and record with the exact same tone, effects, and volume (other than guitar knob adjustments on the fly) from start to finish.  In other words, we need control of Native 'while' we're playing.  Am I mistaken in my thought that this is not possible?  For instance, if we want wah in our recording, is automation and auto-wah, during a post processing stage of our dry signal, the only option  we have with Native?

[datacommando]

5 hours ago, JLondon said:

I think he simply means that, like myself, wants to be able to use the Helix, as an expression pedal and effect changer, in conjunction with Native during recording so that we can use wah, change from clean to distortion, visa-versa, etc.  I think we all understand the blessing of being able to post process the dry signal with native.  But in the creative sense, it's soooo sterile to have to create and record with the exact same tone, effects, and volume (other than guitar knob adjustments on the fly) from start to finish.  In other words, we need control of Native 'while' we're playing.  Am I mistaken in my thought that this is not possible?  For instance, if we want wah in our recording, is automation and auto-wah, during a post processing stage of our dry signal, the only option  we have with Native?

 

Hi JL,

 

Now I’m starting to become really confused, particularly about this statement:

“wants to be able to use the Helix, as an expression pedal and effect changer, in conjunction with Native during recording so that we can use wah, change from clean to distortion, visa-versa, etc.”

 

That’s kinda weird because the Helix hardware is equipped with an expression pedal (with the option of adding 2 more external pedals) that can be assigned to a variety of functions, for example delay time and or feedback, pitch shifting range, modulation speed etc. Snapshots can and will change from clean to distortion all in real time, plus phasing, flanging and stacks of other stuff, without the need for Helix Native whatsoever!

 

You simply play and record the Helix in real time using as many snapshot options as you may require. Native really is not part of the equation. 

 

If you have the hardware, then that can perform a multitude of sound manipulation tasks in real time as you record. Control of Native is a completely different issue as it can perform everything that hardware does without having the actual hardware connected.

 

If you only have Helix Native then the sound creation engine is identical, but then you would require a method controlling the software to do what the hardware does with physical foot switches and expression pedals. That’s a different issue, or maybe I am failing to see the problem.

 

Baffled!

[JLondon]

17 hours ago, datacommando said:

Now I’m starting to become really confused, particularly about this statement:

Sorry for the confusion - but I think you've got it right though.  The video you posted was very educational and helpful.  Please keep in mind that I'm new to recording and still trying to figure out not only the Helix, but also Cubase, recording equipment, and best setup methods - so I've speaking from the perspective of the little I do know and not the immense pool that is what I don't know.  That said, what I was getting at is not having to use the Helix floor unit in the way you described (and in video), but, for instance, If using an interface other than the Helix (in my case the Steinberg UR28M) I'm thinking you would have to disconnect cabling from one in order to use the other, change your DAW settings, and then back again, etc. - unless of course I could output the Helix signal into the input of my main interface.  I may be mistaken but stacking preamps like that, with their own individual volume levels, doesn't seem like the best of ideas.  Anyway, in a nutshell, I think I'm wishing that the Helix rack foot controller could somehow be used to control Native without having to switch interfaces.  I'm sure that I've baffled you further and for that I apologize.

[datacommando]

19 hours ago, JLondon said:

Sorry for the confusion - but I think you've got it right though.  The video you posted was very educational and helpful.  Please keep in mind that I'm new to recording and still trying to figure out not only the Helix, but also Cubase, recording equipment, and best setup methods - so I've speaking from the perspective of the little I do know and not the immense pool that is what I don't know.  That said, what I was getting at is not having to use the Helix floor unit in the way you described (and in video), but, for instance, If using an interface other than the Helix (in my case the Steinberg UR28M) I'm thinking you would have to disconnect cabling from one in order to use the other, change your DAW settings, and then back again, etc. - unless of course I could output the Helix signal into the input of my main interface.  I may be mistaken but stacking preamps like that, with their own individual volume levels, doesn't seem like the best of ideas.  Anyway, in a nutshell, I think I'm wishing that the Helix rack foot controller could somehow be used to control Native without having to switch interfaces.  I'm sure that I've baffled you further and for that I apologize.

 

Hi again, JL,

 

Hey, it’s not a problem. When you are new to something, and are unsure of what to do, the best thing to do is to ask. Let’s try to clarify things.

 

O.K. I guess you are using Cubase because it was bundled with the Steinberg audio interface. Good deal, and a way in to digital recording. Although one thing to note is the UR28M doesn’t have MIDI capability. It’s an audio interface not a MIDI controller which is what you probably require in this instance. As for audio input, the Helix can do everything , and more, than the Steinberg unit so you could possibly take that box out of the equation. There is no need to take a perfectly good audio signal and then push it through a second bunch of analogue/digital conversion - that way lies madness! (distortion!)

 

As you are just starting out with recording, my suggestion would be to use your Helix Floor to capture the DI dry audio and route it back in and out of the Helix where you can modify the raw audio on the fly and record the results onto new stereo tracks back in Cubase. You could do this as many times as you require, manipulating filter sweeps, delay time/feedback, wah or whatever, to your hearts content. Bear in mind that if you wanted to do this using only HX Native you would have to use your UR28M to get the dry signal into Cubase, then that has to be modified on the fly using an external device.

 

If you check the posts on the Helix Native forum, you will notice that most users are using hardware MIDI cotrollers to achieve what you seem to think you need. A inexpensive solution would be the Behringer FCB1010, but I think this would simply be adding to the confusion as all the controllers need to be mapped to Helix Native. I mention the Behringer rather than something like SoftStep because it has 2 expression pedals on board. However going this route will only be a minefield of trying to create a real time performance version of what can be done with a real Helix. If you decide this is the way to go you probably should read this thread and check the section on Cubase set up:

In conclusion, here’s a couple of really good quotes regarding HX Native from forum member “soundog”:

 

“HXN works amazingly well for its intended use.

Select a preset for a guitar track and rock out.

If you need more time-based control within a track, the snapshot and parameter control delivers in spades. 

And it keeps getting upgraded along with the Helix so its not just another "release it and forget it" plug-in.

If you intend to use HXN as some sort of switch-controllable software for performance (creating a low-cost Helix), you may face hurdles.”

 

Also

 

“HXN was created and is marketed as a DAW recording plugin — not a host-based, MIDI-controlled effects ‘pedal.’ 

I understand those wanting to push it in that direction, but not sure if it will evolve to support that application. 

We shall see...“

 

Hope this helps/makes sense, if not just let me know.

(Ah, Cubase - I haven’t use it for years, but I remember using an early incarnation of it, Pro 24 MIDI sequencer on an Atari ST. That was cutting edge technology back then.)

[JLondon]

3 hours ago, datacommando said:

Hey, it’s not a problem. When you are new to something, and are unsure of what to do, the best thing to do is to ask. Let’s try to clarify things.

Wow! So many thanks for your time and for all the very useful information.  Looks like I have some considerations to make.  The Helix floor unit has been wonderful, especially for live play, but based upon the education I just received (and the smaller desktop footprint that would result) I definitely wish I had the rack unit and foot controller now .  My live (praise/worship) play days are limited due to my age and some changes that are coming at my church.  I may consider selling my floor unit and Steinberg and just do it.  In the meantime, I'll be experimenting and learning how to use the Helix I have in the ways that you have suggested.  Definitely sounds like the right way to go to me.  

[datacommando]

7 hours ago, JLondon said:

Wow! So many thanks for your time and for all the very useful information.  Looks like I have some considerations to make.  The Helix floor unit has been wonderful, especially for live play, but based upon the education I just received (and the smaller desktop footprint that would result) I definitely wish I had the rack unit and foot controller now .  My live (praise/worship) play days are limited due to my age and some changes that are coming at my church.  I may consider selling my floor unit and Steinberg and just do it.  In the meantime, I'll be experimenting and learning how to use the Helix I have in the ways that you have suggested.  Definitely sounds like the right way to go to me.  

 

Hi, once more,

 

As previously noted, I’m happy to help out if and when I can, but whatever direction you go and whatever you decide to go with, have fun with this stuff. 

 

Also, I found this video that may interest you, (or maybe not), anyhow check it out:

 

Happy trails.