mountain2012 Posted October 28, 2018 Share Posted October 28, 2018 Can an external preamp be connected to the return jack of an amp block and the guitar connected to the external preamp instead of the "guitar in" of the helix, and then that works like a real amp in that it bypasses the preamp of the amp block and only the power amp is emulated? How about taking a preamp-only helix block and routing that to the effects loop, then running a cable from the preamp-only send into the "return" of a different complete amp block, thus bypassing the preamp of the complete amp block and using just its power amp? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codamedia Posted October 28, 2018 Share Posted October 28, 2018 The Helix Loop is not part of the amp emulation, it is it's own separate block. It can be placed before an amp block, or after an amp block - but it does not separate the PRE/Power section of an amp model.... if that is what you are asking. Are you looking to just get the "power amp model" of an amp on a Helix? If so, those are not available as separate blocks, they are only part of the "amp model" and "amp/cab model". 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hideout Posted October 28, 2018 Share Posted October 28, 2018 2 hours ago, codamedia said: The Helix Loop is not part of the amp emulation, it is it's own separate block. It can be placed before an amp block, or after an amp block - but it does not separate the PRE/Power section of an amp model.... if that is what you are asking. Are you looking to just get the "power amp model" of an amp on a Helix? If so, those are not available as separate blocks, they are only part of the "amp model" and "amp/cab model". However, lots of us have signed up and voted up the idea for separate preamp and power amp models in IdeaScale. Please join and upvote it! Thanks. https://line6.ideascale.com/a/dtd/Independent-pre-and-power-amp-blocks/748793-23508#idea-tab-details 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mountain2012 Posted October 28, 2018 Author Share Posted October 28, 2018 4 hours ago, hideout said: However, lots of us have signed up and voted up the idea for separate preamp and power amp models in IdeaScale. Please join and upvote it! Thanks. https://line6.ideascale.com/a/dtd/Independent-pre-and-power-amp-blocks/748793-23508#idea-tab-details You probably already know this, but Line 6 said they don't want to separate the preamp and power amp into separate blocks because it would reveal too much about what is going on behind the scenes with their models. I assume if the models were separated then we would probably see a Behringer rip-off in the near future... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codamedia Posted October 29, 2018 Share Posted October 29, 2018 8 hours ago, mountain2012 said: but Line 6 said they don't want to separate the preamp and power amp into separate blocks because it would reveal too much about what is going on behind the scenes with their models. I assume if the models were separated then we would probably see a Behringer rip-off in the near future... Makes little sense to me... especially with the PREAMP models already separated, and the CAB models already separated. It would be pretty easy for a company like Behringer to analyze the "differences" between a full amp (pre-amp and power amp) and a pre-amp only model to determine the difference. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hideout Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 On 10/28/2018 at 11:56 AM, mountain2012 said: You probably already know this, but Line 6 said they don't want to separate the preamp and power amp into separate blocks because it would reveal too much about what is going on behind the scenes with their models. I assume if the models were separated then we would probably see a Behringer rip-off in the near future... I don’t get how separating the preamps and power amps would reveal anything about what’s going on behind the scenes in the amp models. That makes zero sense to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PiFromBRC Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 On 10/28/2018 at 11:56 AM, mountain2012 said: You probably already know this, but Line 6 said they don't want to separate the preamp and power amp into separate blocks because it would reveal too much about what is going on behind the scenes with their models. I assume if the models were separated then we would probably see a Behringer rip-off in the near future... Where did they say this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil_m Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 On 10/28/2018 at 1:56 PM, mountain2012 said: You probably already know this, but Line 6 said they don't want to separate the preamp and power amp into separate blocks because it would reveal too much about what is going on behind the scenes with their models. I assume if the models were separated then we would probably see a Behringer rip-off in the near future... I've never seen Line 6 say that anywhere... What Ben Adrian, the chief Helix sound design guy, said was that separating the power amps out from the preamps is a challenge because of the interaction between the preamps and the power amp. Quote Here's the scoop. As one might imagine, we model the preamp and the power amp sections of amps. What is not readily apparent to most users is that we are also modeling the power supply. The audio in the amp moves through preamp and into the power amp, as we all know. The power supply feeds the amp in reverse. It delivers power to the output transformer first, then the power tube screens, then the phase inverter, then the preamp from back to front. This means that preamp sag depends on how the power amp is performing. In a single amp model, we can have bi-directional communication. In a preamp only, we have a behind the scenes trick to maintain the sag as if it was hooked up to a power amp, without using the DSP resources of having a power amp model. There's currently no way in our architecture to have a power amp model talk in an audio-backwards direction to a preamp model. Also, if there are two preamp models and two power amp models, there's has to be a bit of code to untangle the logic of which preamp is controlled by which power amp. In addition to that, every preamp is different, so there has to be some kind of logic to untangle what to do when a preamp that needs four nodes of power supply is only hooked up to a power amp with three nodes of power supply. https://www.thegearpage.net/board/index.php?posts/23845504/ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.