Helix floor into amp, using helix's effects only

[Masmuk]

Hi, I'm after some advice, I'm having issues trying to use my Helix floor unit with just it's effects only, into my Orange TH 30 Combo.  What I'm trying to do is put overdrive/effects in front of the amp and delays etc through the Orange's effects loop.  I have tried the four cable method but it just doesn't seem to work properly.  The amp has two channels Clean/Dirty both of which I want to use with the effects. When connected using  the four cable method the volume controls on the amp don't seem to work and the volume has to be controlled from the helix unit, which I don't want to happen.  I'm not a newbie to the helix (or line 6 floor units, previously I owned the Pod HD500X, DT25 amp etc), I've had the Helix almost since it's launch date and used it with my FRFR cab and directly through the effects loop input using the modeled amps etc. with my Blackstar ID60TVP.

I've watched loads of video's showing how to do this (I especially like the one done by Richie Castellano  https://youtu.be/ZvarQIPwchE) but none work for me. It may be something to do with the send and return levels on the effects loop but I have tried to adjust these but I'm still having no luck. The Orange TH 30 does have a tube buffered effects loop, I don't know if that makes any difference.

 

Thanks in advance for any advice...  Mark

 

This is a diagram I used to show how I've connected things up , the image at the top is the one I've used for my scenario.

 

[jbuhajla]

Looks like you have things wired correctly. There should be a factory preset for 4CM. Try to use that as a starting point for setting up the signal chain within the Helix

[Masmuk]

I did try a factory preset, but it didn't work as I expected.  I haven't given up, its not in my nature, I used to work in IT and I did a lot of problem solving, but unfortunately this is not as simple as switching it off and on again. I'm sure I'll solve it soon. Thanks for the reply.

[rd2rk]

You need to put a FX LOOP Block between the front of amp FX and delays etc..

 

Your wiring is good.

 

Guitar>Input>Distortion>FX LOOP Block>Preamp>Delay>Output

 

Then assign the FX LOOP Block and Preamp to a single button, saved one ON one OFF so that they toggle ON/OFF>OFF/ON.

 

With the FX LOOP ON the signal goes though the Orange Preamp (Helix Preamp OFF), when the FX LOOP is OFF the signal skips the Orange Preamp, goes through the Helix Preamp and out to the Orange RETURN/POWER AMP.

[Masmuk]

rd2rk,  I've tried this before, but I'll give it another go again tomorrow.  I don't want to include a pre-amp model in my chain, so if I just add an FX LOOP block that is always on, this should do the trick, I assume. 

[rd2rk]

As long as you know that you'll always be using your amp's preamp, no Helix preamp is required. Just be sure that if you're using physical FX Loop1, you use the FX Loop1 Block.

If you're wired per your diagram - Guitar>HX Input>HX Send#>Amp Input>Amp FX Send>HX Return#>HX 1/4" L/Mono Out>Amp FX Return - you should be good.

 

EDIT: the big knob on the Helix will control the level sent to the amp's FX Return. If you set it full up or set it to XLR in Globals, it'll send a 0db level.

[Masmuk]

Thanks to everyone for your advice. I have now managed to get this working. My problem was down to a faulty cable going into the effects loop of the amp. Incidentally, my Orange tube amp sounds much better using real pedals rather than those from the Helix. The distortion pedals, especially my Suhr Riot, played through the clean channel sound more dynamic, whereas the distortion pedals in the Helix sound a little harsh. I guess someone could manage to add an Eq block and tweak it to get near to the sound produced using the real pedals, given time. Having said that, the helix modulation, delay and reverbs do sound good through the effects loop. My conclusion is, stick with the real pedals for now and try again when I have more time to tweak until my heart is content. Taking one unit (The Helix) with its multitude of effects, has got to be more convenient than a case of half a dozen heavy pedals and potentially dodgy connections.

[jbuhajla]

15 hours ago, Masmuk said:

Taking one unit (The Helix) with its multitude of effects, has got to be more convenient than a case of half a dozen heavy pedals and potentially dodgy connections.

I can attest to that. The other electric player in our church will sometimes be down for 1-2 songs troubleshooting a bad connection on his pedalboard. For me, it is worth having just guitar>Helix>mixer even though the Helix doesn't have every single model of my "dream pedals". Pros and cons, you just have to weigh them and go with it.