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free Boston patch ?


coachz
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I spoke too soon.  I spent the entire day today on my friends helix trying to dial in the intro to Rock and Roll band with no success.  I can't get even close.  I tried my Les Paul into Plexi and 2204 models with many cabs and IR but no luck.  I tried all combinations of drive, tone, sag and bias and I also tried compressors, overdrives and eqs but I can't seem to get anywhere close.

According to legend the path is:

 

69 les paul with DiMarzio SD --> compressor --> noise gate   --> EQ--> smooth OD pedal  --> touch of stereo chorus --> reverb --> 72 marshall superlead  

 

        --> powersoak split out to    --> speaker --> Electro-Voice RE16 to console
                                               --> 30 band eq --> to console
 

The link below is the sound I"m trying to nail.   It's got an open top end but lots of mids and is not thin at all.  This one is doubled so if anyone is up for the challenge, just use the left or right channel to get it.  Thanks for any genius' that can nail it.  It's looking impossible atm.

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/dx1w8odhwrlfll5/boston.wav?dl=0

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Thanks for the Boston - Peace preset.  I could not get close with it but I did find a way to do it.  Unfortunately I can't do it totally within Helix.  The EQ is so radical that I had to have Fab Filter learn the EQ of the original and apply it.  I also had to use a Cali IV Lead to get the distortion sound with the 4x12 Cali V30 cab and Ubuquitous Vibe for a bit of smear.   This eq though would never be possible in Helix.  Let me know what you think and thanks for the help !  I have a zip file here that has the Fab Filter preset and Helix preset.   

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/5bsagnva4itnk14/Rock and Roll Band Preset.zip?dl=0

ScreenShot017.jpg

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 Yeah I couldn't believe the low end was there either but it is there when I look in a spectral analyzer. I think it's probably an artifact of palm and pick rumble because I don't think it's a significant part of the sound. I also tried High passing up to a hundred hz and it still sounded exactly the same so I'm not really concerned about the low in but it is there. The last time I try a rockman I was unable to get that sound oddly enough. I think of the Rockman as more of the second and third Boston albums

 

 I just wish I could get the entire thing inside the helix

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22 hours ago, coachz said:

 I just wish I could get the entire thing inside the helix

 

If you feel that the EQ curve is the magic bullet for you, why not make an Impulse Response from it then you can load it into the Helix and use it whenever you need it? You seem to have the gear to do it... they aren't that hard to put together. 

 

22 hours ago, coachz said:

I think of the Rockman as more of the second and third Boston albums

 

I don't hear distinct tone differences between the 1st and 2nd albums... both were recorded PRE-ROCKMAN so any difference would have been incidental... the natural progression in tweaking tones, using effects, etc.. etc...

 

FYI: I was joking about the Rockman, I know they don't really sound like the albums. 

 

 

 

 

 

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22 hours ago, coachz said:

I also tried High passing up to a hundred hz and it still sounded exactly the same so I'm not really concerned about the low in but it is there.

 

I'd remove it with the HPF if creating an IR.... It serves no purpose to the tone so don't process it. 

 

The Voxengo Deconvolver (free) is the secret to creating an IR. There are many you tube videos on creating one... it's not difficult.  The principle is not much different than creating the EQ curve you did with FabFilter. 

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Thanks.  I tried making an IR with Deconvolver but had no luck.   I created a test tone in Deconvolver using multiple techniques in youtube videos including the Jason Sadites one.  I tried both 32 bit 48000 and 24bit 44.1 files (my Reaper project settings).  I then ran the test tone through my eq in reaper and rendered it to a mono file which I ran through Deconvolver so it could compare to my test sweep.  The end result IR just sounded like a blanket thrown over my audio.  I have no clue why I have no success.  There is no clipping in the signal during render to 0.02dB and made the test tone 15 seconds long and added 15 more seconds of silence to the render.  Oh well.

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11 hours ago, coachz said:

There is no clipping in the signal during render to 0.02dB and made the test tone 15 seconds long and added 15 more seconds of silence to the render.  Oh well.

 

Keep trying.... it sounds to me like you have not got the process down right.

I created about 50 IR's that did nothing until I got the knack of making them. 

 

12 hours ago, coachz said:

I tried both 32 bit 48000 and 24bit 44.1 files (my Reaper project settings)

 

I believe the HELIX uses 16 bit 48K. It's suppose to convert everything on it's way in, but I find it best to just create it that way to begin with.

 

 

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I got it to work !  Are there any tips on why I need to add 5dB to my IR level once I add it to Helix ?  My track level is -0.2dB on peaks.

 

Here are my notes in case it helps someone else.  Thanks so much for the help !!!

 

Creating Impulses for Helix
----------------------------------------------------
Using Voxengo Deconvolver
1.    create a test tone ...
    Test Tone Gen - 24 bit, 44100, Mono, 15 Seconds for Reaper import to a track
    Apply EQ to track and render in Reaper
    (My Reaper projects are 24 bit / 44.1khz)

Render in Reaper 
2.    Set track level to -0.2dB
    Render 15 second test tone as    16 bit, Mono, 48000khz because Helix likes that.

Using Voxengo Deconvolver
    Load test tone file (1.) and the render file from (2.)
        Output 16 bit
        MP Transform checked
        Normalize checked
        Ignore already processed files

3.    Click Process to create the IR that you will load in Helix

After loading IR in Helix I need to add 5dB to make it the same volume.

 

IR requires 
-------------------
Helix supports nearly all IRs in .WAV format. However, the Helix Edit application may
automatically change its attributes before sending it to the Helix hardware:
 

Converts all .WAV IRs to 16-bit, 48kHz mono; when loading a stereo file, Helix
Edit uses only the left side

Shortens (or lengthens) the IR to 2,048 samples. The user may choose a
1,024-sample version to save DSP, which fades out the IR halfway through

 

 

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On 11/20/2018 at 10:04 AM, coachz said:

Are there any tips on why I need to add 5dB to my IR level once I add it to Helix ? 

 

ADD 5db? Do you mean you raise the IR Level by 5db... or set the IR level at 0 then add another 5db?

 

When you add an IR the default IR level is somewhere around -16db....which is too low for any IR I use, commercial or home made. I suspect they set it that quiet to save ear drums and speakers. They can control the level of their own effects, but they can't control the level of a customers IR. Better safe than sorry.

 

I always have to increase the IR level to somewhere between -10 and 0.... but I've never had to add more level than the IR was capable of if set to 0. I usually run it closer to -10 - which is roughly 5db higher than the default setting... if that is what you actually mean :) 

 

 

 

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 I had to move the IR level from like -10 to + 5 DB for the levels to match what my previous EQ was.   But this was a pretty radical EQ that added a good bit of gains so that might have messed the IRS up.    It is working great though and encourages me to do more

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