Please ensure Javascript is enabled for purposes of website accessibility Jump to content

Helix 4CM/5CM Questions - Rivera TBR-1SL Amp


Monsta-Tone
 Share

Recommended Posts

I apologize if this topic has been beaten to death already, but I was unable to find exactly what I need to know through a search.

I'm going to apologize for the length of this as well.......

 

I just got a Helix.  I've been using Fractal stuff for a while and wanted something that is easier to make changes to on the fly.

Years ago, I had an HD500X.  It didn't quite do what I wanted it to, so I moved to an FX-8.

 

I am using my trusty old Rivera TBR-1SL stereo tube amp with my Helix.

The amp is old (1990 or so) and has a little bit of built in hiss, but when I use the Helix, the hiss is exaggerated a bit and there is some hum that was not there with the FX-8.

 

Here is my setup:

Guitar --> Helix Input

Helix Send 1 --> Ebtech Hum Eliminator (Channel 1)

Ebtech --> Amp Input

Amp Send --> Ebtech (Channel 2)

Ebtech --> Helix Return 1

Helix 1/4" Outs --> Amp Return A & B (stereo amp)

 

Here is my Signal Chain in Helix:

Guitar --> Input Block

Input Block --> Wah (Expression 2)(default position is OFF)

Wah --> Minotaur (default position is OFF)

Minotaur --> Volume Pedal (Expression 1)

Volume Pedal --> Path 1A Output (Set to Send 1/2)(this is where my amp is inserted)

Return 1 --> Path 2A Input (Set to Return 1)

Path 2A Input --> 63 Spring Reverb (only ON for Clean Snapshots)

63 Spring Reverb --> Stereo Ducking Delay (only ON for Ambient or Lead Snapshots)

Delay --> 1/4" Outputs

 

Volume Knob is set to XLR Only - This was quite a tone sucker when set to 1/4" Outputs.

 

Amp Switching is done via Midi, using an RJM Switch Gizmo.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Even with the Ebtech Hum Isolator, I still have a fair amount of extra hiss and a slight hum.

It is definitely not a deal breaker, but I would like to eventually record this setup and would like to eliminate as much noise as possible.

 

So.....here are my questions:

 

Question 1:

All of the YouTube videos and threads on this forum mention using a Block for Send & Return to my amp instead of using Path 1A Send/Path 2A Input.

I have a noticeably higher amount of hiss if I use a Block to Send/Return to my amp vs. using Path 1A Send/Path 2A Input.

Is there a better way to do this that might be even more quiet?

 

Question 2:

Is there a Noise Gate Block, or are the only Noise Gates on the Inputs of Paths 1&2A?

The Noise Gate on Path 2A Input kills the remainder of my hum and some of the hiss, but it definitely kills my sustain as well.  Especially on Clean sounds.

Is there a better Noise Gate built into the Helix?

 

Question 3:

Humbusters - Sort of......

I get it that the Humbuster thing is looked down upon on by some, but it really works for the Fractal stuff.

Given that the XLR Outputs are "Balanced," can I use XLR to TS cables in a Humbuster configuration to eliminate even more noise?

 

I have tried a 2nd Ebtech unit on the Returns of the amp.  This did not change the noise at all.

 

 

Question 4:

Effects Blocks that are inserted into my amp's Loop all create more hum, hiss, or noise (depending on what Effect is used).

For instance, Ducking Delay produces a higher amount of hiss and hum when engaged. 

All Effect Levels are currently set at their default 0.0db setting.

Is there anything that can be done about this?

 

 

So far, I am very impressed with the Helix!  It is far easier to program from the unit itself than any Fractal product I have used.

The only thing that I have that is as easy to program (from the unit) are my trusty old Digitech GSP1101's.

 

Helix is definitely much more user friendly and better sounding than my old HD500X was as well!

 

I just need a little bit of direction on how to get rid of the remainder of my noise......

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hey man,

Sorry, but you won't get rid of all hiss and hum from Helix in the front of your crunchy amp. I use a Rivera kr100 and I put a mxr smart gate, seeing at minimum, just before my front input to remove the floor noise from Helix. The floor noise is inaudible in a clean amp, but once you start pumping gain, you can really ear an hiss.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 12/12/2018 at 8:00 PM, Gritch666 said:

Hey man,

Sorry, but you won't get rid of all hiss and hum from Helix in the front of your crunchy amp. I use a Rivera kr100 and I put a mxr smart gate, seeing at minimum, just before my front input to remove the floor noise from Helix. The floor noise is inaudible in a clean amp, but once you start pumping gain, you can really ear an hiss.

Thanks!  I had a KR100, great amp, should be called, "The Loudest Amp On the Planet!"

I have a KR55 now, but it has some internal noise issues.  Lots of hiss at idle.  I'm an amp tech and it's been driving me nuts for months, I just can't narrow it down.

 

The TBR is basically channels 1 & 2 of your amp.  It's not super high gain, but it does get crunchy.

I have always used the Send and Return knobs in tandem with my Rivera amps.  If the Return was on 4, then the Send was on 4.

I don't know why I never thought about signal to noise ratio, but I discovered this week that if I keep my Send on 7 and just use the Returns as the overall master volume there is much less noise.

 

I have a TC Sentry that I might try in front of the amp, but I hate the idea of using more external devices than I already do.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ya I know it's a bugger to use an external gate. You can put a gate in the loop to via your Helix to kill all noise. The noise ratio is really my only complain about Helix, this and they don't model Rivera amp... Won't ever happen I guess, most people doesn't like those amps, they are just too tight and unforgiving for most player. 

 

I m always back and forth between channel 2 and 3. Channel 3 doesn't have a shiet load of gain like a rectumfryer or a 5150, but is so tight and articulate. Channel 2 to me is kinda your typical Marshall 800 sound, but boostable and way more shapeable with the eq. Like an 800, it's nice for any genre. Would love to mix them both live. I've owned a kr55 to, but I don't know, he just doesn't get the ballz in the low end of the kr100. I've put kt77 in both BTW, best tube in Rivera amp imo. Same with my ktré, who is radically different. It's a more standard hi gainer, but with a superb open sound but not as tight. Dig it for lead tracking or slow rythm job(doom, grung, rock). 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you change V1 plate resistor from 47K 1 watt to 59K or even 100K, you would be amazed at how much gain it has!

There is a little bit of added noise if you go too high, and the lead channels are a bit noisier with OD pedals in front, but WOW!

I have a TBR-1SL, S-120 2x12, Fandango 2x12, Venus 6 1x12, KR55, and an M60 2x10.  That's a lot of Rivera amps for a Mesa tech.....

I didn't get along very well with the Tre.  I think the clean just isn't as good as the other amps.

 

I gotta try the Helix with my S-120, but it is sounding so good with the TBR that I don't want to unplug it!

I'm pretty sure that I got most of my noise issues worked out.

I had to crank the Send on my amp and set the Output to my amp to Line instead of Instrument.  Probably because the TBR has an input compensation circuit that is basically a boost pedal.

 

Anyway....thank you guys!

I would still like to know if the XLR Outs could be used as Humbuster.  XLR to TS.

Might have to just experiment a little bit tomorrow!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 12/13/2018 at 7:00 AM, Gritch666 said:

Hey man,

Sorry, but you won't get rid of all hiss and hum from Helix in the front of your crunchy amp. I use a Rivera kr100 and I put a mxr smart gate, seeing at minimum, just before my front input to remove the floor noise from Helix. The floor noise is inaudible in a clean amp, but once you start pumping gain, you can really ear an hiss.

You won't now.
It is obvious Helix needs some more advanced gating implementation. I mean a gate controled with one input while it affects another input/output. I don't see any point of using analog gates with Helix in the future unless you need to get rid of the last in the chain DA converter noise.
BTW Lack of gate for FX loop is strange while all input blocks are gate equipped.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...