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kcoulter

HX Stomp and MIDI - some insights

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I bought my Stomp and I absolutely love it. I wanted to integrate it with my Voodoo labs PX8+ and I started to do some research and found so much back and forth on this topic and still a lot of confusion.  So I thought I’d list out some details here that I hope will clarify the Stomps capabilities:

 

The Documentation on midi is confusing: 

Yes, yes it can be, but like most of Line 6 documentation there are hidden gems (like look at the Stomp manual and the ‘Reserved’ MIDI command section - very last entry.  It’s prettt funny).  Also, they don’t always list everything you need to know, but there are some not-so-obvious things listed I’ll explain next:

 

Can you program MIDI on the Stomp: 

Typical Engineering answer ‘it depends’.  What is programmable I’ve found so far is that you can ADD blocks forSend/Return with Mono or (Stereo options) of Send Left&Right (Send L/R), Receive Left &Right (Receive L/R), and FX Send&Receive ( FX S/R) for MIDI devices.  Each connection has the capability to Bypass (as you would think Bypass an effect), Dry Thru (think n terms of how much of a dry signal), and Send (how you want to send your signal). There are also additional options on the return side and FX Loop.  This is all CC based control structures.  This is where CC controls can be programmed for these blocks that will be sent AND also the CC number will be received if the Stomp is Setup.  

 

Is that it?:

Of course not!  You can also tweak individual effects within the presets or individual effects or amps with MIDI CC controls - however, you should k ow what your doing here as they existing functions are already defined for ‘standard operations’ (I.e. Footswitch 1&2, etc).  And if your really good at MIDI programming I’m sure there are ways to manipulate these functions (I, however, am not).  

 

Well, my MIDI function has presets that require PC controls:

Yup - you can send PC messages also.  In the documentation where MIDI is described, it discusses under preset and snapshot recalls, in the Play View, you’ll see the PC and associated CC controls for that preset and snapshot.  Here’s where you’ll need a MIDI receiving device that is either programmable or has a ‘Learn’ mode (which is how I got my PX8+ to work).  The PC and CC controls are sent automatically (unless you change the Global Settings to do otherwise).  To program my PX8+, I setup my presets, put it into learn mode (see PX8+ documentation), selected the patch, then associated the PC and CC commands to my preset.  It takes some

time to do this.  

 

So is there anything like the HX FX MIDI?

Nope.  Like most things Stomp, there are always some sacrifices made for the smaller form factor.  So MIDI doesn’t have the easier Controller programming function you have with The full blown Helix and Helix FX boards.  

 

I hope this help help everyone understand what’s available a little more.  Ultimately, you’ll have to get creative to try to program some MIDI functions working in the framework Line 6 has given us with Stomp, but most things can be done creatively with the MIDI interface.  It’s more flexible than I thought, but does take some trial and error to work through.  I’m sure an entire manual could be created on MIDI programming with Stomp.  

 

I hope this helps.  And remember to backup your pedal BEFORE you start testing how to get your MIDI functions to work correctly - just sayin....

 

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Thanks for the feedback.  This is something I keep debating getting into mostly because I love the Stomp and there's a desire to squeeze every last drop out of it.

 

At the same time though, I find that it's original design is actually pretty well thought out. So much so that I find myself asking what I would truly need the Midi for. The big obvious takeaways are that you can make the largely worthless looper suddenly pretty flexible (as I understand it, with the midi you can have it be a multi button looper instead of the dopey single button) and to switch presets faster.

 

Currently I attach a dual footswitch to the Stomp and set the footswitch to control snapshots. I then put core stomp buttons on the FS1 and FS2, leaving the FS3 for tuning and delay timing. Then I can do drastic changes with the dual footswitch, but subtle changes with the FS1 and FS2.  It works great!

 

Switching presets though is still a lollipop. Come to think of it maybe I should do the FS4 and FS5 for core stomp boxes and use FS1, FS2, and FS3 for snapshots because then I can change presets.

 

Of course then I lose the tap tuner/delay easy access but that's used a lot less often . . .

 

Hmmmm . . . back to dreaming of a midi controller.

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For OP's original need, the Stomp sends PC#s which can be used to control the loops on his switcher. If you need more buttons to Bypass Blocks or call snapshots via MIDI using a foot controller, or control parameters using a MIDI Expression Pedal, you can do that too. But the only affordable do-it-all foot controller I know of is the FCB1010, and it's roughly the size of a Helix Floor. By the time you add all the external MIDI controllers, you might as well get the full Helix. However, If you add MIDI enabled hardware pedals (Strymon for instance) into the Loop Switcher, something like the FCB1010 could be VERY useful. All you need is a LOT of real estate.............and again, most of what you need can be done with the full Helix.

 

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Great topic!

 

I'm wondering if there is a way for the HX Stomp to send through usb midi the signal of the analog expression pedal connected in the input of exp?

 

Regards!

 

Luis

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7 hours ago, zelasa said:

Great topic!

 

I'm wondering if there is a way for the HX Stomp to send through usb midi the signal of the analog expression pedal connected in the input of exp?

 

Regards!

 

Luis

 

Sadly, no. That is beyond the capability of midi. 

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This:

 

http://midisolutions.com/prodped.htm

 

Plug your expression pedal in, midi cable to HX Stomp, Global set to MIDI THRU=ON

 

EDIT: I'm assuming you want to do this to record the exp pedal movements in a DAW. To control the STOMP at the same time you'll need to assign the parameter to be controlled to MIDI. See the manual for specifics.

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43 minutes ago, rd2rk said:

This:

 

http://midisolutions.com/prodped.htm

 

Plug your expression pedal in, midi cable to HX Stomp, Global set to MIDI THRU=ON

 

EDIT: I'm assuming you want to do this to record the exp pedal movements in a DAW. To control the STOMP at the same time you'll need to assign the parameter to be controlled to MIDI. See the manual for specifics.

 

Huh . . .  interesting idea. I guess that makes sense, though if that's what he was after I clearly misunderstood. 

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3 minutes ago, Kilrahi said:

 

Huh . . .  interesting idea. I guess that makes sense, though if that's what he was after I clearly misunderstood. 

 

I think what he was hoping was that the analog to midi conversion was a function within the Stomp. So "That is beyond the capability of the STOMP'S MIDI" would have been quite correct! Or, it could be ME that totally has no idea what he's after!

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6 hours ago, rd2rk said:

 

I think what he was hoping was that the analog to midi conversion was a function within the Stomp. So "That is beyond the capability of the STOMP'S MIDI" would have been quite correct! Or, it could be ME that totally has no idea what he's after!

 

Hi Guys, Thanks for the answers!

 

OK, i do not agree with "that is beyond the capability of midi" but agree with "That is beyond the capability of the STOMP'S midi" 

 

Anyway I am asking Line 6 to confirm this because from what I can understand the implementation of the pedal, and the way this kind of system understands an external expression pedal to control internal digital effects, turning the expression pedal potentiometer analog range (which has already been converted to digital inside the pedal) into MIDI messages, depending on the implementation , it would probably not be a hardware question, but a firmware one.

 

Well, I may be completely mistaken and talking a lot of nonsense too... :-)

 

Regards,

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Can the Stomp pass through all MIDI data received via its MIDI out port? For example, if my setup was “MIDI controller keyboard > Stomp > Synth module” would the Stomp allow the MIDI note data sent from the keyboard to be passed onto the Synth? 

 

I’m sincerely hoping the answer is yes!

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1 hour ago, CameronJ said:

Can the Stomp pass through all MIDI data received via its MIDI out port? For example, if my setup was “MIDI controller keyboard > Stomp > Synth module” would the Stomp allow the MIDI note data sent from the keyboard to be passed onto the Synth? 

 

I’m sincerely hoping the answer is yes!

 

I believe it will send MIDI Note data. I think the only thing it won't send are MIDI Sysex messages.

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On 4/9/2019 at 4:28 PM, phil_m said:

 

I believe it will send MIDI Note data. I think the only thing it won't send are MIDI Sysex messages.

 

Thanks for that. So you mean, even if the sysex data is sent from a controller earlier in the chain, the Stomp won’t pass thru that signal?

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4 minutes ago, CameronJ said:

 

Thanks for that. So you mean, even if the sysex data is sent from a controller earlier in the chain, the Stomp won’t pass thru that signal?

 

Correct.

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Why does have MIDI ins and outs then? The world may never know...

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On 12/18/2018 at 5:48 AM, kcoulter said:

Like most things Stomp, there are always some sacrifices made for the smaller form factor.  So MIDI doesn’t have the easier Controller programming function you have with The full blown Helix and Helix FX boards.  

 

I've read Line 6 left out the Controller section (sending MIDI CCs via the footswitches to external devices) because they thought it would make the manual too long. Not because it has a small form factor. It could be added, and would make the devices more compatible. I think its a major shortcoming for the Stomp, and the only reason I returned it.

 

Yeah, why did they add the MIDI out if you can't really use it for much?!

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Just now, cgtrox said:

Why does have MIDI ins and outs then? The world may never know...

 

Well, they could conceivably add it later. That might be cool, though the limited number of buttons limits it somewhat. 

 

For now though, the midi in is obvious.  it allows you to control the Stomp with a Midi controller.  The midi out is still useful too. It allows you to connect a midi controller to the Stomp, and then another midi device to the Stomp out, and the messages get passed through it.

 

I currently do this with a midi controller, the Stomp, and the Firehawk 1500. 

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12 minutes ago, cgtrox said:

Why does have MIDI ins and outs then? The world may never know...

 

When you select a preset, the Stomp can (if enabled) send the corresponding PC (MIDI Program Change) #. This can be used to call a preset on a device downstream (any MIDI enabled device like a Strymon). 

 

Sysex messages are much longer than simple MIDI messages. They're typically used in advanced MIDI configurations, complex synth and lighting, etc. Not what the Stomp is made for. Why doesn't a Toyota Prius have a 500 HP engine?

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55 minutes ago, soundog said:

I wish mine did sometimes.

 

My KIA dreams about being a Ferrari!

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On 4/17/2019 at 9:51 AM, cgtrox said:

Why does have MIDI ins and outs then? The world may never know...

 

So it can be used as part of a larger MIDI rig...

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.... for being controlled yes, but not for controlling (other than pc#).    :-(

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On 4/18/2019 at 10:22 AM, phil_m said:

 

So it can be used as part of a larger MIDI rig...

Hi Phil, been a while! Yes, I see that as part of the bigger picture now. I just assumed it would do so as my M9 does it. Been out of the loop for a while and was originally shooting for the HX Effects which does all of what I was looking for. I was hooked by the smaller footprint of the Stomp as I am trying to keep it light for stage travel, oh well. For the record, I really love this little box!

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Glad its working out for you. I currently use the HX Effects, but ordered a Stomp to try out because of the smaller footprint. After using it for a week I returned it — it didn't have the robust MIDI capabilities of the HX Effects. If Line 6 adds the missing MIDI features I'll pick one up again, because I really liked the rest of the package.

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On ‎4‎/‎26‎/‎2019 at 9:44 AM, soundog said:

Glad its working out for you. I currently use the HX Effects, but ordered a Stomp to try out because of the smaller footprint. After using it for a week I returned it — it didn't have the robust MIDI capabilities of the HX Effects. If Line 6 adds the missing MIDI features I'll pick one up again, because I really liked the rest of the package.

 

Exactly! Looks like I'm going with the HX Effects as well

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6 hours ago, tamirh67 said:

What midi abilities were you missing?

 

HXS only sends a hardwired PC# when a preset is loaded. It doesn't have the configurable Command Center feature.

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So I've been using my Helix floor with a Voodoolabs Hex switcher to incorporate different drive pedals, per snapshot. I'm a MIDI novice so it took me a while to get this configured.

 

For me, the idea of HX Stomp is appealing because I could put it right on the board with my drives. 

 

Can HX stomp send out MIDI per snapshot?

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No.

Default Program Change messages are sent on preset selection - 01A=000;01B=001 etc - but that's it.

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