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GaryWalker1974

4 cable method

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No, providing that the Send/Return block in your patch matches.  There are 4 so the blocks and the jack loops need to match up.

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A few more details: Matching the loops is only neccessary if you want to use an FX loop block. There are possible reasons not to do so; for example if your amp's FX loop operates at line level it would make sense to use e.g. send  1 set to intrument level to feed the amp's input and to use return 2 set to line level to receive the signal from the amp's send. Be aware you'd have to use the single send/return blocks instead of the FX loop blocks, and that there's a chance you're wasting (in the above case) return 1 and send 2.

 

I'm using a setup different from the provided 4CM templates, because I found it to be less noisy: I use path 1 as pre-amp path, set the output of path 1 to be the 1/4" jacks set to instrument level. The amp's send goes to receive 1 (set to line) which is fed into path 2, which is my post-amp path. The output of path 2 is sent send 1 feeding the amp's return. You cannot switch between the amp's preamp and a modeled one on the fly within a preset with that setup, but especially with (my) high gain amps I'm getting a little less noise. I've found the fx loop's send to be quite a bit noisier before a high gain amp than the 1/4" outs and I never ever use modelled amps.

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It does not matter what 1/4" inputs/outputs you use. They are almost identical. All outputs are TRS impedance balanced. That called "1/4" Output" can be controlled with Volume Knob. "Guitar Input" has variable impedance, pad and can not be set to "line level".
Very same noise performance, same impedances, no difference.

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8 hours ago, zolko60 said:

Very same noise performance

 

Sorry to repeat myself here, but that's not always true. In front of a high gain tube amp there can be a noticable difference. It's not huge, but you can hear it. Both the main outs and the sends have pretty low noise floor (and there's no audible difference) in front of a clean amp or a FRFR rig, but with some high gain tube amps both output types can exibit quite some hiss, and the main outs do that just this little noticable bit less.

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I am sorry but I can not confirm that. In fact when I measure noise performace, 1/4" Outs are 1dB noisier when Volume Knob is used. This is not audiable for me.
14OutvsFXloop.png.b6b238b0248206952f2914a455a3c4a5.png

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Well, let's agree to disagree :). I didn't mean to start an argument or something.

 

I can't back this up with measurements, but with my Helix unit and my amps, I can hear a clear difference in the noise level between the two output types (I bypass the volume knob). I wouldn't be surprised if this was subject to variation from unit to unit - with a S/N ratio in the 140 dB range I'd say there's room for a variance of a few dB. Not to forget, with an amplifier where the gain stages usually have a µ of 80 to 100 every dB difference in noise will be audible.

 

I just wanted to offer another way of doing it. I also do the 4CM thing different from the templates because my amps' loops operate a line level and it makes more sense to me to use the ins and outs as I described above.

 

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Actually, the audiable difference is easy to check. You make a preset with hi gain amp model and place FX Loop DSP block in front, loopback it with patch cord and listen how much noise is added. Then you make a preset with 1/4" Out as send for the same Return, and listen. You can even compare instrument level with line level setting in both cases or Volume Knob influence.
RMAA measured S/N ratio is about 110dBA in both cases.

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2 hours ago, zolko60 said:

I am sorry but I can not confirm that. In fact when I measure noise performace, 1/4" Outs are 1dB noisier when Volume Knob is used. This is not audiable for me.

 

This is not black and white!

 

You need to understand, it is quite common that with certain setups the HX units can introduce more noise than it may with YOUR setup. It is not measurable unless you have the same gear everyone else does. There are many people that have noise issues, there are many that do not, and the topic has been discussed ad nauseam in these forums. It is NOT simply a case that these people are hearing things, or don't know how to setup their gear!

 

1 hour ago, zolko60 said:

Actually, the audiable difference is easy to check. You make a preset with hi gain amp model and place FX Loop DSP block in front, loopback it with patch cord and listen how much noise is added. Then you make a preset with 1/4" Out as send for the same Return, and listen. You can even compare instrument level with line level setting in both cases or Volume Knob influence.

 

Now take that same procedure into a music store and test 20 different physical amps instead of testing with amp models in the Helix :) 

 

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I think I can understand it.
If this is the case sharing opinions on this topic makes no sense cause each case is diffrent, subjective, not measureable.
Hovever scientific approach is about finding common ground, test, demonstrate, replicate the results and help someone with the knowledge collected this way.

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15 minutes ago, codamedia said:

Now take that same procedure into a music store and test 20 different physical amps instead of testing with amp models in the Helix :) 

Will you pay me for that? Will you believe me I did it? Will you assume the test conditions are the same same as yours?

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23 minutes ago, zolko60 said:

Will you pay me for that? Will you believe me I did it? Will you assume the test conditions are the same same as yours?

 

I don't want your results, I want YOU to experience that the results can differ :)

 

27 minutes ago, zolko60 said:

Hovever scientific approach is about finding common ground, test, demonstrate, replicate the results and help someone with the knowledge collected this way.

 

EXACTLY... if you don't test this on real world amps your experiment is just "one example" not a "scientific approach".

Your ONE EXAMPLE COUNTS... absolutely! But it is not the entire picture! 

 

I'm just asking you to open your mind on this subject.

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For me this is just the experience of rethorical sense of humour or open to any claim minded point of view :D

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HX Effects 5 cable wet dry wet set-up.

 

I'm waiting on my unit to come in, but I have a question.  I want to know if you can run the 4 cable method + 1 cable for a wet/dry/wet mix

GTR>HX Input>HX Efxloop send to front of amp> Amp efx loop send to HX return> then HX L ouput & HX R output to two electro Harmonix Mag 44 power amps. L speaker R Speaker.

Main amp run dry signal and EH Mag 44's run the LH&RH wet signal.

Has anyone tried this?

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