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rijiboy

How to get HD500 "Mid Focus EQ" in Helix?

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I started converting some of my HD500 tones to Helix and realize there is no "Mid Focus EQ" in Helix, I didnt notice this before but 3 out of my 8 most used patches in HD500 used "Mid Focus EQ",  I tweaked these patches (and probably this EQ as well) a lot over last several years and really love those tones I get out of HD500.  I thought I could get closer in Helix by using "Low and High Cut" EQ but thats not it, next stop was "Parametric EQ" and I think thats my best bet but thoroughly confused with what to do with how to get my high pass and low pass frequencies? any suggestions? 

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This video might help a bit. And below the video are some measurements of the mid-focus eq taken from this link: https://line6.com/support/topic/335-frequency-response-graphs-for-hd500-eqs/

Unfortunately, the links in the link are broken, thus the images for the mid-focus eq. So with all this information, you should be able to construct an equivalent using what's available in Helix.

 

 

Mid Focus EQ -Gain.png

Mid Focus EQ -HP Freq.png

Mid Focus EQ -HP Q.png

Mid Focus EQ -LP Freq.png

Mid Focus EQ -LP Q.png

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1 hour ago, duncann said:

This video might help a bit. And below the video are some measurements of the mid-focus eq taken from this link: https://line6.com/support/topic/335-frequency-response-graphs-for-hd500-eqs/

Unfortunately, the links in the link are broken, thus the images for the mid-focus eq. So with all this information, you should be able to construct an equivalent using what's available in Helix.

 

 

Mid Focus EQ -Gain.png

Mid Focus EQ -HP Freq.png

Mid Focus EQ -HP Q.png

Mid Focus EQ -LP Freq.png

Mid Focus EQ -LP Q.png

 Yikes...

ok maybe "Yikes Lite"... video made sense, these graphs just totally threw me off,

if I am dialing frequencies based on video on parametric EQ, I am not getting anywhere, seems like I will have to mess with Low/High cut before I can get somewhere and introducing either of those options takes your entire EQ to somewhere really unexpected (very different from what I thought I dialed), I think I have to pick "Low and High Cut" come closer to those two frequencies I want bypassed

I wish Line 6 had made this transition easier ...

Thanks for great response

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The problem you will face... is knowing exactly what your mid focus is doing. It is the least intuitive eq block in the HD500 so you need to study and understand the graphs posted above to get an idea of how you might have it all set up. 

 

At the core of the Mid Focus are the filters... an HPF and LPF.

Combined with those is a resonant peak... those can be accomplished easily enough with a parametric. 

 

Once you calculate what you have constructed with the mid focus, it should be fairly easy to re-construct with 2 or 3 EQ blocks. However, you will end up with a transparent EQ curve that matches, but still might not give you exactly what you want since the Mid Focus is anything but transparent. 

 

OPTION #2...

Learn how to make IR's.. they are not overly difficult but you will need a little time to figure it all out. As long as you have a computer you can download free software (it's all legally free) to do the job.  Once you know how to make an IR you can capture your various Mid Focus EQ's from your HD 500... and they will be an exact copy of what you currently have. 

 

OPTION #3... do without the mid focus

OK, Let me qualify this statement :)

I used to run the mid focus on my HD500 to warm & thicken my tones. The HD500 always sounded a little thin to me and the mid focus helped with that problem. When I switched to the Helix that problem was gone - I didn't need the mid focus any longer. 

 

I'm not saying that same will apply to you, I'm just saying it might :)

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Quote

OPTION #2...

Learn how to make IR's.. they are not overly difficult but you will need a little time to figure it all out. As long as you have a computer you can download free software (it's all legally free) to do the job.  Once you know how to make an IR you can capture your various Mid Focus EQ's from your HD 500... and they will be an exact copy of what you currently have. 

 

 

FREEEEE???? I like it :) , can you point to some non malware toolset that you use? 

 

Quote

OPTION #3... do without the mid focus

OK, Let me qualify this statement :)

I used to run the mid focus on my HD500 to warm & thicken my tones. The HD500 always sounded a little thin to me and the mid focus helped with that problem. When I switched to the Helix that problem was gone - I didn't need the mid focus any longer. 

 

 

Agree, and frankly there are just these 3 tones I am having problems with, my PHD is now Interstate in Helix, but is less fat and has little more shrill one of my main tone is dependent on that, other one is with P75, and I think I maybe able to work with P75-Nrm in Helix to come close to what I need

 

 

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1 hour ago, rijiboy said:

FREEEEE???? I like it :) , can you point to some non malware toolset that you use? 

 

Be prepared to take a day or two really figuring this out... but in the end you could potentially have an exact replica of your "mid focus settings" in a few different IR's, and you will also gain the ability to create IR's in the future.  

  1. You will need a DAW, of some sort. If you don't already have one I'd suggest Presonus Studio One Prime. Limited features, but it has everything you need to prepare your files.. 
  2. The actual making of the IR will be done with "voxengo deconvolver ". You can run it  in DEMO mode (without buying) and still have the ability to create an IR. Perfect if you are only creating a small number of IR's for personal use. 

With those two tools, you just need to learn the procedure.

This video walks through how to create an impulse from several EQ's on a Helix... but this can just as easily apply to creating one from the mid focus eq on the HD500. 

 

 

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Guys,

I found something interesting, first I gotta thank all again for responses, I didnt get time to try creating my own IRs, with job and family sitting with guitar for 30 minutes per week is becoming challenging, anyways I found something by fluke and cant explain why its working like it is, Helix's signal path doesnt makes sense, and I will explain in a moment what that means

I was able to get that mid-boost/warmth through "Cosmos Echo", as I mentioned it totally happened by accident, here are steps to recreate it

  1. I was trying to tweak "Derailed Ingrid" tone from presets
  2. I by mistake dragged "Cosmos Echo" Delay from main signal path to parallel signal path and boom, I had this warmth in my tone
  3. messed with different params in "Cosmo Echo" to further tweak warmth but didnt get any major difference even if I moved a setting anywhere from 0 to 100
    • Even set Mix to 0% and still tone was same
    • Only when turn delay off you will lose that warm tone
  4. I then created couple of other tones from scratch, kept everything on main signal path and added "Cosmos Echo" on parallel path

This approach seems to work for now, but does have one huge drawback,  Cosmos Echo has huge memory footprint once you add that you are pretty much limited to 4 or 5 other blocks on top of amp, I have noise gate, compressor, distortion, amp, mod and reverb, wanted to add volume, wah, EQ and cant....

 

Can someone in Line6 explain whats going on? or is this normal for parallel signal path to so drastically change tone (even when mix is set to 0%)?  what do you guys think?

 

image.thumb.png.14739acc58d6132d357a105a7f757522.png

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1 hour ago, rijiboy said:

Can someone in Line6 explain whats going on? or is this normal for parallel signal path to so drastically change tone (even when mix is set to 0%)?  what do you guys think?

 

What MIX are you referring to? The MIX in the effect, or the level of the MERGE for path B? 

 

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OK... I don't know that model, or what effect it is modeled after... but the mix could just be for the "delay" effect, not the entire effect. 

 

It used to be common (on traditional amps/effects) to run an echoplex into an amp to do exactly what you are doing here. In that setup the "delay" was never used, just the tone of the pre-amp from the echoplex. If this model is built with the same idea then the warmth of the effect comes through regardless of how you set the mix control. 

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1 hour ago, rijiboy said:

This approach seems to work for now, but does have one huge drawback,  Cosmos Echo has huge memory footprint once you add that you are pretty much limited to 4 or 5 other blocks on top of amp, I have noise gate, compressor, distortion, amp, mod and reverb, wanted to add volume, wah, EQ and cant....

 

There are two rows... an upper and a lower. There are two paths per row... path A and path B (as you are setup on the upper row)

Each ROW has it's own processor... and since you have everything on the upper row, you are only using one processor. 

 

Move some stuff to the lower row and that will free up power. 

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1 hour ago, rijiboy said:

Yes

 

Okay, just to be specific, yes, that's normal. Helix tries to model what real pedals do while still giving you even better control.

 

So in the case of a real pedal, when you stomp on it to activate it it's engaged and begins coloring the sound. Very few pedals in the real world (though it's becoming more common) allow you to adjust the mix between the original dry guitar signal and the wet effect. The Helix does which is great, but you should not think of the mix button at zero as a way to bypass the block. Think of it more as a way to reduce the pedal's most obvious purpose while still retaining some of its influence. Just like in the real world, the only way to completely remove its influence in your signal chain is to turn it off - that's true bypass. Also, as long as it exists on your signal chain, on or off, your Helix will keep DSP reserved for it because it assumes you might want to engage it at some point in time.

 

Also, as codamedia pointed out, you actually have a TON of DSP still available through the second processor. Something us Stomp users can only dream of.

 

Considering you love what the pedal does to the sound, I'd consider it a wonderful brilliant accident.

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Maybe try using the Kinky Boost instead of the Cosmo Echo ,I believe that it's modelled on the EP Boost which is itself modelled on the Echoplex audio path.

 

Craig

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26 minutes ago, CraigGT said:

Maybe try using the Kinky Boost instead of the Cosmo Echo ,I believe that it's modelled on the EP Boost which is itself modelled on the Echoplex audio path.

 

I thought I had added it to one of my earlier posts, but this is exactly what I do to warm up some tones. There is a thread here someone about the "Kinky Boost" as an always on... there are many that go with this approach.  Another nice thing about the Kinky boost is that it uses very little resources. 

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The Kinky Boost seems magical for getting that extra gain, smoothness, sustain, and warmth all in exactly the right proportions.

 

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so Kinky boost it will be :)  I did create a patch with Kinky Boost and Litigator amp, and love how clean and yet still saturated it can be, 

but frankly I think I have lot to learn here, I do know I can create tones like I want but trying to find that combination is becoming challenging, I had HD500 nearly 5 years and towards last couple of years I finally figured out how to dial a great tone, actually I am still holding on to my HD500 cause there is this one tone based off PHD (Dr Z) that I cant dial in Helix, hopefully overtime I will learn that.

Thanks everyone 

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