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Command Center - Midi "Note On" Issue


nuggs_1
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Hi folks.  New Helix LT user here.  I am having an issue with Command Center specifically configuring midi note on messages, to control the looping functions of my Elektron Octatrack.  I have setup 2 switches in Command Center, both momentary.  The first sends midi note 62 (D4), the second sends midi note 64(E4).  It works, but for some reason one or both switches keep reverting back to midi note C1.  I keep recreating the patch, saving it, but it keeps happening.  Any ideas?  Very frustrating, as if it would just retain my configured notes, it would work perfectly.  The only thing I am not sure of is the capacative touch switches.  Is it possible that I am touching the switch and moving the expression pedal to a value of zero and this is changing the setting?  I have tried to recreate this scenario and can't.  Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.

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Not all the snapshots were saved with the proper NOTES. Go into them one by one, change them and SAVE before moving on to the next.

Attaching my fix. Don't know why HX Edit changed the name. Weird! 

 

Edited by rd2rk
File removed to recover attachment allotment
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On 1/2/2019 at 11:21 PM, rd2rk said:

Not all the snapshots were saved with the proper NOTES. Go into them one by one, change them and SAVE before moving on to the next.

Attaching my fix. Don't know why HX Edit changed the name. Weird! 

AC30 FREE WT.hlx

 

Ok so I tried what you said.  Same thing was happening with the preset you attached, so I started a new preset.  Saved every time I modified the 2 switches in midi command center for each snapshot.  I cycle through the 4 snapshots, and test the 2 switch's (switch 10 and 11) settings using capacitive touch so that it displays the settings.  All are fine.  I can cycle through the snapshots, and midi notes D4 and E4 are displayed for switch 10 and 11 exactly as I set them up. and on every preset.  Save preset and test again.  All is fine.  I select a snapshot, and hit switch 11 which sends the midi note to engage my looper.  As soon as I am recording, and start changing snapshots, the settings on either switch changes to midi note C1.  Sometimes it does it on multiple snapshots, could be switch 10 that changes, could be switch 11 sometimes both.  What's worse, those settings are saved in the preset, even if I reboot the Helix without saving.  All I did before taking pic 3 attached was hit switch 11, then change snapshots while moving the expression pedal.  I am no stranger to Midi, I've never seen anything like this.  If anyone has any ideas, it would be greatly appreciated.  One of the reasons I bought a Helix was because of the midi control functionality.  If I can't get this figured out, I will have to return it.  Such a shame because it sounds amazing.

Pic 1.JPG

Pic 2.JPG

Pic 3.JPG

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I ran this thru every change I could make with two feet while trying to watch MIDIOX and Command Center at the same time, including switching snapshots while operating the expression pedal (as you described). The only time that the note value changed was when my big clumsy feet hit the value knob accidentally. I switched presets and when I came back all was as it should be. IOW, no matter what I do I can't duplicate your problem. Either:

 

Your Helix is defective (open a support ticket)

OR

What version are you on? I'm on 2.71, and I vaguely recall this (or a similar) problem having been solved in a recent update.

 

What version are you on?

 

 

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Really appreciate your help!  Thanks for taking the time to test.  I did open a support ticket tonight, as something is definitely not right. 

 

23 minutes ago, rd2rk said:

What version are you on?

 

Upgraded to 2.71 right out of the box last Sunday.  Just to see what would happen, I changed the value to midi CC 100 and 102 on the 2 switches.  That's wonky too.  I cannot switch back and forth between the 2, it locks up and can take 5-6 presses to respond and take up to 20-30 seconds to switch the midi cc's.  That should be instant, so something is clearly off.

 

Really glad you cannot replicate the issue, I am hoping it's my Helix, as I can swap it out where I purchased it.

 

Thanks again rd2rk!

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Nuggs,

 

I have exactly the same problem and can tell you (and rd2rk ;) ) that is definitely not finger trouble. I actually reported it on the bug report list last night before seeing your post here:

 

Sound familiar?

 

FWIW, I think it is very unlikely to be a hardware issue.

 

Michael.

 

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6 hours ago, Afterglow-GTB said:

I have exactly the same problem and can tell you (and rd2rk ;) ) that is definitely not finger trouble. I actually reported it on the bug report list last night before seeing your post here:

 

Neither I, nor anyone else, can troubleshoot a problem if we can't duplicate it. One thing I thought odd was that when I DL'd OP's preset, HX Edit renamed it. I thought possibly wrong FW version or corrupt preset, but OP says he's on 2.71 (like me) and that he tried rebuilding the preset from scratch with the same results.

 

If L6 resolves the issue for you, PLEASE report back here! I'd love to know what the problem was!

 

Thanks!

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39 minutes ago, Afterglow-GTB said:

Hi rd2rk, I did a little video of the issue in action and added it to my post on the bugs thread. If you've got a spare minute, can you take a look at it and see if you can replicate the behaviour?

 

Cheers,

Michael.

 

I still can't get OP's problem to replicate. However, your problem replicates every time. BUT, if I assign the 4 notes to 4 buttons, no problem. It seems the problem only occurs (in this particular test scenario) if I assign multiple notes to the same button, changing the note value in different snapshots.

 

Just for kicks I played around with CC#s. Apparently, you can only assign 1 CC# to a particular button. You can change the VALUE with snapshots, but you can't change the CC#.

 

So there's definitely a problem (or several) with the way that snapshots are working.

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On 1/5/2019 at 5:43 AM, Afterglow-GTB said:

Nuggs,

 

I have exactly the same problem and can tell you (and rd2rk ;) ) that is definitely not finger trouble. I actually reported it on the bug report list last night before seeing your post here:

 

Hi Michael,

 

Thanks for letting me know, at least I know I'm not crazy.  Not familiar with the way things work at Line 6.  Do you guys think I should be creating a bug report as well?  Is Line 6 good at fixing these types of issues?

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On 1/5/2019 at 12:07 PM, rd2rk said:

One thing I thought odd was that when I DL'd OP's preset, HX Edit renamed it.

 

I forgot to mention, the patch was renamed to it's original name.  Not sure why it was renamed, but wanted to let you know.  I downloaded that patch and changed the name.

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2 hours ago, nuggs_1 said:

 

Hi Michael,

 

Thanks for letting me know, at least I know I'm not crazy.  Not familiar with the way things work at Line 6.  Do you guys think I should be creating a bug report as well?  Is Line 6 good at fixing these types of issues?

 

This will eventually get fixed, but it won't happen overnight. Look for a fix in a future (hopefully the next) regular update.

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  • 2 years later...

Even after updating to 3.11 yesterday I'm still having the same issue: using snapshots, the MIDI note assignments in Command Center don't seem to 'stick' and keep reverting to default values after changing from one snapshot to another, after saving the patch in each snapshot before moving on.  But an even bigger issue for me is I'm trying to trigger samples in Koala sampler on iPad.  When I first started trying it, it worked great, then suddenly it didn't.  I can play the exact same MIDI note on my keyboard and the sample triggers every time.  But the same MIDI note played from Helix Command Center refuses to trigger the sample.  I have a second sample 'silence' on the same choke group, pressing the second Helix stomp button assigned to it kills (choke) the playing non-silence sample.  But to trigger that first sample and play it I have to tap the iPad screen.  I've tried 'momentary' and 'latching' settings on Helix MIDI note in Command Center, does not help.  On the keyboard, a simple key press and let up, the sample plays.

Edited by tmullin1017
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@tmullin1017 the lost assignments is a known issue. There's a thread over on the Native subforum and a few similar comments scattered around. Line 6 say they're aware but I'm not sure when a fix will come. I suspect it may be related to MIDI notes being lost but I'm unsure.

 

 

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After making my original post, I realized I'm using Bluetooth MIDI with a new adapter that seemed to be working.  I bought two of them, different manufacturers.  I switched to the other one on the Helix and my problem disappeared.  That was after trying with a regular MIDI cable and it worked OK.  I am perplexed about Command Center assignments.  I thought they had to be established separately for each snapshot, saving each change.  Then it looked like if I made assignments on snapshot 1, they also showed up in the other snapshots.  Which kind of worked, but then on another patch when I was on a snapshot other than 1 and made and assignment, it seemed like all the snapshot reverted to 'default' values (not the values I set) and had to be fixed.  I've watched a bunch of YouTube and read the manual but haven't found anything that addresses the topic of Command Center assignments versus snapshots.

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  • 7 months later...

This problem is still prevalent. The saved notes in Helix memory are randomly, and inconsistently overwritten. It's virtually impossible to recreate the bug with any consistency. 

 

I've painstakingly saved each and every snapshot after each and every single change. I've tried both manually moving the slider to the desired note, as well as the pull down "copy" "paste" method (from a snapshot that has retained the desired note). When I've cycled through everything and all seems to be set, I save and export. Moving on to another patch, doing some editing, and saving that one, I return to the one that was just meticulously verified only to find it's now holding random notes that I didn't program. Importing that same patch that I previously exported brings in the same nonsense. 

 

Since it's virtually impossible to consistently recreate this problem, the only way to fix this is with a thorough code review. There's a persistence problem with the life cycle of the variable used to store and recall the desired notes.

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If you count the number of people who've commented on it in this thread, you have a pretty accurate idea how many of us care.

Not many.

That's likely why it hasn't been fixed. All we can really do is open another support ticket. It becomes a battle of who blinks first.

TBH, I don't really care beyond "Hey, it's broke, fix it!"

I'm more concerned with getting them to update and fix the problems with the Powercabs and L6 Link.

We pick the battles that concern us most. 

Good Luck!

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Popularity is not a guage of the severity of a bug. Severity and priority should be evaluated as a pair.

 

No one should be here to debate flavors of ice cream. Everyone should be here to share problems and solutions. 

 

This problem will need to be resolved by a code review, therefore this problem will never have a user-discovered workaround. That's what I'm sharing. I'm hopeful that the Line 6 developers understand this and at least have the issue in the backlog.

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I gave up waiting for this to be addressed and sold my Helix.  Midi command center promised to be the hub of my midi setup, and this bug was ridiculously frustrating as an Ableton user.  The bottom line for me is Line 6 fell short of the mark here.  I don’t see how this would be a complicated fix.  If nobody cares why the hell did they add this feature in the first place?

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2 hours ago, Evil_Patrick said:

Popularity is not a guage of the severity of a bug. Severity and priority should be evaluated as a pair.

 

No one should be here to debate flavors of ice cream. Everyone should be here to share problems and solutions. 

 

This problem will need to be resolved by a code review, therefore this problem will never have a user-discovered workaround. That's what I'm sharing. I'm hopeful that the Line 6 developers understand this and at least have the issue in the backlog.

 

Like it or not, a bug like this requires significant resources to fix, and resource allocation happens on a priority basis determined by customer demand.

I prefer chocolate, but while I feel for the 5 mint pistachio fans out there, and hope that at some point resources get allocated to find and fix this bug, I wouldn't hold my breath. 

If this bug severely impacts your situation, you need to do what @nuggs_1did.

Sell your Helix and get the modeler whose command center addresses all of your needs. (see below for possibly viable alternative)

BTW @nuggs_1, which modeler did you settle on?

 

1 hour ago, nuggs_1 said:

I gave up waiting for this to be addressed and sold my Helix.  Midi command center promised to be the hub of my midi setup, and this bug was ridiculously frustrating as an Ableton user.  The bottom line for me is Line 6 fell short of the mark here.  I don’t see how this would be a complicated fix.  If nobody cares why the hell did they add this feature in the first place?

 

It's really easy, when you've never seen the code or, in fact, aren't even a BASIC level programmer, to not be able to understand the complexity of a coding problem.

As to why the feature was implemented if nobody cares, not all development ideas turn out to be winners. MAYBE if it worked, it would become a wildly popular feature.

Apparently, in retrospect, L6 doesn't think so. Sucks, I get it, but it is what it is.

 

In the meantime, there are tools, such as the BOME MIDI translation SW and HW, that can take most any MIDI command and convert/expand it to do most anything you want it to.

If you can't find an alternative to Helix that does the job, it's something to think about.

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2 hours ago, rd2rk said:

BTW @nuggs_1, which modeler did you settle on?

 

I originally went with a Strymon Iridium and got a Morningstar MC-8 for midi.  I have since replaced the Iridium with an HX Stomp.  Would still love a Helix if this were resolved, I love the footprint and not needing all the extra pedals currently in my rig.

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