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Is there a difference? Digitech Drop vs Variax Guitar


themetallikid
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Ok, besides the pedal vs guitar and other obvious facts....

 

If I'm looking for a solution that will allow me to minimize guitar changes and be a better one and done solution....which would be better? 

 

My thoughts are that...

 

1) the Drop would need to be incorporated into a loop S/R which is then active/bypassed per preset vs setting tuning in variax per preset Advantage = Even

2) the drop is taking the signal and pitch shifting it down vs. variax does the same via the pickup system - Advantage Variax (only cause its being done at the source, otherwise pretty even here)

3) Drop will receive an E and put out an Eb/D note vs. Variax guitar will resonate an E note and put out Eb/D - Advantage = Even

4) Neither will be able to produce appropriate feedback on the altered tunings - Advantage - Even

5) Cost of pedal - $200ish vs guitar cost is $800ish

6) pedal only does tunings vs Guitar can change pickup/guitar sounds from the source, per preset/snapshot - Advantage - Variax

7) pedal seems to keep the tone in tact when shifting down a whole step (my max I'd be shifting down a whole step) vs Variax has more tuning options that are stable however palm mutes can sound weird (is this still an issue?) - advantage - Variax maybe?

 

So, it seems pretty even, maybe tilted towards Variax...am I missing something?

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58 minutes ago, themetallikid said:

Ok, besides the pedal vs guitar and other obvious facts....

 

If I'm looking for a solution that will allow me to minimize guitar changes and be a better one and done solution....which would be better? 

 

My thoughts are that...

 

1) the Drop would need to be incorporated into a loop S/R which is then active/bypassed per preset vs setting tuning in variax per preset Advantage = Even

2) the drop is taking the signal and pitch shifting it down vs. variax does the same via the pickup system - Advantage Variax (only cause its being done at the source, otherwise pretty even here)

3) Drop will receive an E and put out an Eb/D note vs. Variax guitar will resonate an E note and put out Eb/D - Advantage = Even

4) Neither will be able to produce appropriate feedback on the altered tunings - Advantage - Even

5) Cost of pedal - $200ish vs guitar cost is $800ish

6) pedal only does tunings vs Guitar can change pickup/guitar sounds from the source, per preset/snapshot - Advantage - Variax

7) pedal seems to keep the tone in tact when shifting down a whole step (my max I'd be shifting down a whole step) vs Variax has more tuning options that are stable however palm mutes can sound weird (is this still an issue?) - advantage - Variax maybe?

 

So, it seems pretty even, maybe tilted towards Variax...am I missing something?

 

Have you heard them both in person? To me the Variax steamrolls the Digitech Drop - and I love the drop.  I hope the Helix mimics one at some point, but the Variax eats it for breakfast. 

 

My first position is that people who use a Drop or Variax have to decide they care far more about what their audience hears than what they hear, and as long as that's the case, here's the difference:

 

1. The Variax can have far more variations of tunings than the Digitech Drop, which can only go in even across the board reductions (so for the Variax, you could have one string tuned up a half step, another down two steps, another up three steps . . . simply not possible with the DD). Now, maybe as a player that's not something you have ever had a desire to deal with - but it's still a distinct advantage. 

 

2. The Variax sounds far closer to real, particularly the lower dropped the tuning.  The Variax will play a very convincing baritone guitar - the digitech drop does not. 

 

3. You mentioned this, but it's a BIG deal - the Variax will mimic tons of different guitars, including acoustic. The digitech drop will not do a good job of drop tuning acoustic guitars, nor can it sound like anything other than the guitar you're already using. 

 

4. The variax will integrate with the Helix to the point that you can have the tunings shift on the fly with simple button presses. That type of interaction is not possible with the drop tuner. 

 

5. Speed. 

 

You are correct that the DD has the advantage of cost and in some cases simplicity.  Those are its only real advantages. If a guitar player is only wanting simplicity, yeah, I'd steer them the Digitech route, but if they truly want to mess with alternate tunings both at home or in a live setting, there is no substitute for the Variax (well, except maybe being above average wealthy and having 30+ guitars shuffled out by paid roadies like John Rzeznik of the Goo Goo Dolls does). 

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A Variax is far more flexible in terms of tones and tunings... (eg: instant drop D, open tunings, etc.. etc... it's not limited to full guitar drop tunings)

that said.... the Drop "does what it does" very well, and will work on any guitar you plug into it.

 

I carry my TELE and my VARIAX to every gig... but my VARIAX is an older 300.

If I had a JTV or Standard loaded with magnetic pickups it would become my primary guitar pretty quickly. 

 

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My JTV-69S with SVL Daytona single coil pickups is my main gigging guitar. I also replaced the neck with a Warmoth with stainless steel frets. This should indicate the value this guitar has for me. My Les Paul and Strat both stay at home, and I use a black Epiphone Sheraton II Pro as my backup guitar.  I use a few open tunings, including some for acoustic guitar. Using a Variax with Helix makes this so easy its hard to imagine any other solution.

 

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Wow, thanks guys for the info, thats pretty much what I'm hoping to really discuss.   

 

I dont have much use (yet??) for alternate tunings really.  My band covers songs that right now range from Standard E/Eb/D, and the drop 'D' versions of those as well.  I'm assuming that can all be programmed via presets/snapshots, so there is definite ease of live use there.  

 

The additional use of different style guitars would be great...especially acoustic....It'd be nice when we do acoustic shows to have that flexibility of doing a clean bluesy electric and acoustic without having to get up between songs.   

 

Regarding the variax pickup system, I've read the palm mute 'issues' and also read they arent much of a problem anymore cause the technology is so much better now....however without hearing it for myself, I have a hard time overcoming my hesitancy.  A lot of the drop D, and whole step down does have some chugging palm muting as an integral part of the song riffage...and between me and the other guitar player...I tend to carry the bulk of that chunk in the tone...I've listened to videos and I can hear what people complain about, but then I hear others say it isnt that bad......opinions?  

 

If it helps, we cover everything from Johnny Cash/Neil Diamond to Metallica/Nickelback (yeah, I said it, lol) and lots of 80's/90's stuff in between....

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I personally am not bothered by the palm muting concerns people have. I can hear the differences in videos too ... to me though the Variax palm mute still sounds good, and in fact, all my guitars sound a little bit different palm muted so to me just goes with the territory of a different guitar.

 

Now, does the Variax emulate the palm mutes of a epiphone casino as well as the rest of the epiphone casino? ... no. Is it performable and audiences are fine? Yes.

 

One caveat .... I don't do high gain metal core stuff. Nor have I experimented really. If that's your gig I could see an argument, but then again, the Shuriken was designed by a metal player and he loves and uses it.

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I dont do metalcore...but things like the main verse riff to Enter Sandman, or Sad But True....a lot of Green Day we do (basket case).  

 

I'm not above the idea that most of the audience wont be able to tell the difference anyway....but if something isnt to my liking it will eventually wear on me....I'm thinking this wont be the case though.  Id imagine if it was that bad of an issue, the platform wouldnt survive or people would be crying more about it.  

 

So whats the difference between the models?  I've looked a bit online but havent really fully researched it...is there any significant difference in models?

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1 hour ago, themetallikid said:

Regarding the variax pickup system, I've read the palm mute 'issues' and also read they arent much of a problem anymore cause the technology is so much better now....

 

Well the tech hasn't changed since the JTV's were introduced, pushing 9 years ago now....the bottom line is that the issue of "piezo plink" is highly variable. Some guitars suffer from it, some don't, and I don't think anyone has come up with a satisfactory explanation as to why that's the case....L6 included, as they officially stopped devoting resources to a diagnosis and/or cure some time ago. An official "we're not pursuing this anymore" was posted in some long dead thread on a subject a while back.

 

From reading numerous discussions about it over the years, the only thing that's obvious is that there are multiple factors involved. What you play and how you play it being at the top of the list... with most of the complaints coming from the high-gain "chugga-chugga" demographic. 

 

In the end, you'll either have the problem or you won't. It's the luck of the draw, and there's only one way to find out. 

 

You might want to hold off on buying anything at this point. There hasn't been a meaningful Variax firmware update since 2014... when development is stagnant for that long, it usually means that the platform is pretty much dead, and resources are going into whatever the next generation of Variax is gonna be.  Wouldn't surprise me if it shows up in the not too distant future.

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yeah I'm not looking to push the purchase button quite yet, as I've got a cruise/vacation coming up and wanna make sure I dont short that budget....but Its been on my radar for awhile.  

 

In regards to it being a hit or miss issue (assuming nothing new comes out, your right that does seem like a long time for something to be not updated, and with NAMM coming...who knows), your saying the same player/preset song could be played over different guitars of the same model and some have it more than others?  Hmm, I suppose even with the same player there will be variances in hand position and pressure and all that...but if they can't ID the problem and have stopped researching it that long ago, I'm guessing they maybe went back to the drawing board and instead of issuing a 'fix' of some sorts they maybe are doing a complete overhaul....who knows.  


I appreciate the info Cruisin, as I'm a little late to the variax game and trying to catch up.  

 

 

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I personally am very happy with the purchase of a used JTV-89. It has become one of my favourite and most used guitar and I have decent selection of nice guitars. I play a large variety of material with all different tunings and styles of music and the guitar has been a godsend for that, specially with the helix control to boot. I do notice the palm muting sounds different and I have to adjust my technique for it but it works fine. I also play green day tunes, here and there,  that require a lot of palm muted downstrokes in e-flat and that is when I noticed a slight tonal difference but it is still very usuable and no one from the audience notices, just me. The one thing I didn’t expect is to utilize the models of guitars as much as I do to get an artists certain guitar tone. Early Billy Joe Armstrong: P-90 so I go with the Special model, etc. I suggest getting a used one if you can; so, you can save yourself some dough and if a new model comes out with current tech you want be at a total loss. I have been wanting another since I started getting into my JTV-89. Hope this helped. 

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3 hours ago, themetallikid said:

...but if they can't ID the problem and have stopped researching it that long ago, I'm guessing they maybe went back to the drawing board and instead of issuing a 'fix' of some sorts they maybe are doing a complete overhaul....who knows.  

 

 

 

 

That's my guess... if memory serves, the last time there was anything genuinely "new" in a Variax firmware release, was nearly 5 years ago. I think it's safe to say that they're done developing the platform as it currently exists. What's next and when is anybody's guess. The focus for the last couple of years has clearly been the various Helix iterations.

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So, I'm asking this just cause Variax tech is new to me....visually I think this is a stupid question, lol.......with the Shuriken....am I losing the ability of a neck pick up sound or middle position?  

 

 

Its hard for me to type that cause visually its obvious....but didnt know with the software you can make that one pickup function as a neck/middle position.  

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5 hours ago, themetallikid said:

So, I'm asking this just cause Variax tech is new to me....visually I think this is a stupid question, lol.......with the Shuriken....am I losing the ability of a neck pick up sound or middle position?  

 

 

Its hard for me to type that cause visually its obvious....but didnt know with the software you can make that one pickup function as a neck/middle position.  

 

Your losing the ability for the passive traditional pickups to have that, yes.

 

However, at the bridge are the piezo pickups. These are the pickups used by the software to model other guitars, alter tunings, and alter pickups. With those, you can still model bridge, middle, AND neck pick ups, and it works quite well.

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Ok, So you can still use it as a regular guitar per preset/snapshot, and/or use it with the piezo pickups to take advantage of the alternate sounds. 

 

 

makes sense then...advantage Variax then. 

 

Using the software I no longer have to handle pickup changes for tone, just hit a different snapshot. 

 

The tones are snapshot selectable, not just preset?

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