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lcuani

Speakers to dial Tones mainly for recording

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Hi. First of all, sorry for possible bad english.

 

I am about to buy helix along with some kind of speakers.  I know that there are tons of topis related to speakers to use with helix but most of them are old and dont answer my specific doubt (actually most dont aproach dialing tones with recording in mind).

 

My band have a pair of JBL EON615. I guess they might be good to dial tones to use live(most places i play already have a PA system with floor monitors) but i am not sure if tones to use live will translate well to record. 

For recording purposes i guess studio monitors with speakers of 5'',6'',7'' or 8''  are better suited.. am i right? if so, Could you give me some recommendations of something around $400?

 

 

And the other way around would work well? i mean... tones dialed to record could be used live with good fidelity? It seens way to much effort in having to dial each patch twice. One for live use and other for recording.

 

 

Finally..... Am i just thinking to much? i could just dial tones in the JBL and then record with them and the results would be good?

 

Thank you in advance for the help

 

 

 

 

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52 minutes ago, lcuani said:

Hi. First of all, sorry for possible bad english.

 

I am about to buy helix along with some kind of speakers.  I know that there are tons of topis related to speakers to use with helix but most of them are old and dont answer my specific doubt (actually most dont aproach dialing tones with recording in mind).

 

My band have a pair of JBL EON615. I guess they might be good to dial tones to use live(most places i play already have a PA system with floor monitors) but i am not sure if tones to use live will translate well to record. 

For recording purposes i guess studio monitors with speakers of 5'',6'',7'' or 8''  are better suited.. am i right? if so, Could you give me some recommendations of something around $400?

 

 

And the other way around would work well? i mean... tones dialed to record could be used live with good fidelity? It seens way to much effort in having to dial each patch twice. One for live use and other for recording.

 

 

lastly.. Am i just thinking to much? i could just dial tones in the JBL and then record with them and the results would be good?

 

Thank you in advance for the help

 

 

 

 

 

Speakers account for at least half your tone... so anytime you change from one speaker(s) to another, you can expect the tone change to a greater or lesser extent, depending on the circumstances.

 

The biggest hurdle to overcome is volume.... patches need to be dialed in at or near the volume at which you intend to use them. Our perception of sound,  particularly the relative loudness of different frequency ranges varies considerably with large volume differences. There's nothing that can be done about this, it's just how our brains work. You can't assume that a tone you've dialed in at stage volume will sound the same at bedroom levels, and vice versa.

 

Also, moving from whatever speakers you're playing through live, to listening through studio monitors or headphones while recording, is an additional variable. 

 

Bottom line is this... you can expect to have to do some tweaking of your patches for different uses, and some tones might require more adjusting than others. It's just the nature of the beast.

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11 minutes ago, cruisinon2 said:

 

Speakers account for at least half your tone... so anytime you change from one speaker(s) to another, you can expect the tone change to a greater or lesser extent, depending on the circumstances.

 

The biggest hurdle to overcome is volume.... patches need to be dialed in at or near the volume at which you intend to use them. Our perception of sound,  particularly the relative loudness of different frequency ranges varies considerably with large volume differences. There's nothing that can be done about this, it's just how our brains work. You can't assume that a tone you've dialed in at stage volume will sound the same at bedroom levels, and vice versa.

 

Also, moving from whatever speakers you're playing through live, to listening through studio monitors or headphones while recording, is an additional variable. 

 

Bottom line is this... you can expect to have to do some tweaking of your patches for different uses, and some tones might require more adjusting than others. It's just the nature of the beast.

Oh well. This is kind of a issue in recording tones since you never know what volume and through what speakers people will hear you... What would be a good aproach to dial a tone you intend to use in a recording?

 

Thanks for the help.

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1 hour ago, lcuani said:

What would be a good aproach to dial a tone you intend to use in a recording?

 

There's no magic formula... it's no different than recording the old fashioned way, with a mic-ed cabinet. You turn knobs until it sounds good to your ears, and doesn't get buried in the mix. Each track will be different...a tone that sounds amazing solo might disappear in a mix. Or a sound that fits just perfectly in a mix might sound like garbage on its own... but that's always the case, no matter what kind of gear you're using. 

 

There's a guy on youtube named Jason Sadites, who has a number of Helix tone-building tutorials. They're worth watching if you're not familiar with modelers. 

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Studio monitors for recording tones, you'll get better detail than you will from lower-priced PA-style speakers. In that price range I'd say look at KRK Rokits, or Tannoy 502s. I was looking for something around that budget and ended up with the Tannoys over the KRKs, just because to my ears the KRKs have a weird boxiness that I don't hear anywhere else when listening to fully-mastered album reference tracks. You will have to dial in different patches for recording/live use due to volume, but I can get a pretty solid idea of my live tones at home, then do the minor tweaking at gig volume, which usually consists of shaving off a little more high and low end then I would for recording (even if I'm cutting that stuff out later in mixing, I prefer to track just a little fat and bright just in case).

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42 minutes ago, lcuani said:

Oh well. This is kind of a issue in recording tones since you never know what volume and through what speakers people will hear you...

 

This is true... but it's an issue that applies to the entire mix, not just your guitar sound. It's why studios usually have multiple sets of monitors.  Big ones, little ones, good ones, and $hitty ones... because out there in the world the finished product has to be listenable on everything from $5 ear buds, to systems you and I couldn't afford if we worked nonstop for 3 lifetimes. It's a challenge to say the least, and like everything else,  the only thing that makes you better at it is repetition.

 

Recordings are audio jigsaw puzzles. Everything has to fit together just right, or the whole thing becomes an indecipherable mess. That's why there's a short list of world-class recording engineers out there, and the same names appear on album after album...

it's an art all by itself. 

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39 minutes ago, gunpointmetal said:

Studio monitors for recording tones, you'll get better detail than you will from lower-priced PA-style speakers. In that price range I'd say look at KRK Rokits, or Tannoy 502s. I was looking for something around that budget and ended up with the Tannoys over the KRKs, just because to my ears the KRKs have a weird boxiness that I don't hear anywhere else when listening to fully-mastered album reference tracks. You will have to dial in different patches for recording/live use due to volume, but I can get a pretty solid idea of my live tones at home, then do the minor tweaking at gig volume, which usually consists of shaving off a little more high and low end then I would for recording (even if I'm cutting that stuff out later in mixing, I prefer to track just a little fat and bright just in case).

I've been looking the krk rokits. Stayed in doubt if i should go for the 5'', 6'' or 8'' version. I intend to use it kinda close in my home studio. I guess the 5'' and 6'' are more suited to this application right?

 

Ty for helping.

 

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2 minutes ago, lcuani said:

I've been looking the krk rokits. Stayed in doubt if i should go for the 5'', 6'' or 8'' version. I intend to use it kinda close in my home studio. I guess the 5'' and 6'' are more suited to this application right?

 

Ty for helping.

 

Honestly, I'd go for the biggest speaker you can afford or reasonably use in your space, just because you'll get a more accurate picture of your low-end. I use 5" drivers and they're fine for most things, but having more low-end would be nice. Apartment living and not wanting to completely drive my neighbors insane has kept me from buying one yet.

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Pretty much what others have said. If you aren't super interested in how it sounds live, then just use the speakers you'll be mixing on (assuming you will be doing the mixing). If you aren't mixing, then good studio monitors. I actually went with 5" speakers and a sub. If I didn't have the sub, though, I'd probably go for 8" drivers. But the setup I have sounded the best to my ears.

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Just now, njglover said:

Pretty much what others have said. If you aren't super interested in how it sounds live, then just use the speakers you'll be mixing on (assuming you will be doing the mixing). If you aren't mixing, then good studio monitors. I actually went with 5" speakers and a sub. If I didn't have the sub, though, I'd probably go for 8" drivers. But the setup I have sounded the best to my ears.

ty. If i end up going for a 5'' speaker, what sub would u guys recommend me

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Whichever matches your speakers. Not strictly required to match, but I'd imagine the manufacturer tunes it to work well with their speakers. You want to make sure you aren't missing any frequencies. My setup is all Yamaha, HS50m and HS10 or something like that, but there are other good options.

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15 minutes ago, njglover said:

Whichever matches your speakers. Not strictly required to match, but I'd imagine the manufacturer tunes it to work well with their speakers. You want to make sure you aren't missing any frequencies. My setup is all Yamaha, HS50m and HS10 or something like that, but there are other good options.

That's what I would suggest. 

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