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Evan329

ML Sound Lab IRs OMG!!!

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These are IRs bring out the best in the Helix as far as I'm concern. I find the effects sound 100% better. I have to apologize for what I'm about to type, the Helix literally sounds like an AXE FX. In a mix the guitars sound more 3D and vibrant. At least give them a listen you might be pleasantly surprised. 

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Apologies accepted ;) Amps sounds only as good as a speaker they are connected to.
Do they have any free samples?

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Ya I'm pretty sure. Search YouTube. They have a link at the bottom of the video. I have been using Ownhammer for about a year. These suit me better. This has been in the Fractal community for awhile, I truly believe this is what separates the two camps.

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Hi guys and thank you so much for the nice words. I've had a Helix for a few months now and I most definitely can make it sound like my real amplifiers with our IR's. I'll post clips soon. I don't necessarily feel like I miss having literally a hundred advanced options that something like my Axe-Fx III has. We're actually working on releasing some Helix compatible presets that work perfectly with our IR's so keep an eye out: ml-sound-lab.com

 

As for free IR's we keep things pretty tight but occasionally there are free IR's that get shared. Here's one to give you an idea what an "ML mix IR" sounds like: http://bit.ly/MLSoundLab

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Checkout the YouTube video on how they make their IRs, there is huge difference, that was enough for me. The proof is in the end product, simply put Quality. I don't work for them, I figured I would share this with people. 

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With only one cabinet offering it's kind of hard to take it too seriously yet.  Maybe once they've expanded their product line a bit more they might be worth looking at.

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Do they only have Mesa cabs or are there others? Could only find the Mesa ones.

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9 hours ago, DunedinDragon said:

With only one cabinet offering it's kind of hard to take it too seriously yet.  Maybe once they've expanded their product line a bit more they might be worth looking at.

Do a YouTube search they have a multiple cabinet for the AXE FX, they just started producing IRs for the Helix line up.

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ML sound lab  IRs been sold on the Fractal site marketplace  https://shop.fractalaudio.com/ml-greatest-hits-ultrares-collection/  

 

They have been doing things for more than a week ; )

 

3 hours ago, Evan329 said:

Do a YouTube search they have a multiple cabinet for the AXE FX, they just started producing IRs for the Helix line up.

 

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Very humbled by the hype you guys put up here. My own website just went online two weeks ago but I've done IR's professionally for about 5 years now. Chances are you've heard my IR's in use without knowing it. Periphery III (and IV by the way!) was tracked with ML IR's and quite many big name artists use them live as I've worked on some of those live rigs as well. There are more IR's on the way and my cabinet collection is pretty impressive. Just starting off with "MEGA Boogey" since those are by far the most requested ones.

 

This was released like an hour ago so I think you should have a look:

 

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Hi,

 

sounds great .... but, sorry if I'm a little slow or blind .... i don't really understand what i am getting with this package.

OK, IRs for Cab simulation. But which (Mic positions, ..)?

And what about the Rest of the Amp sounds - did you create them with the stock amp models?

Do the Presets contain any snapshots? Any EQ, Comp, effects, .... other than the pure model + IR?

 

I'm sure, it's easy to answer for you. :-D

 

Bye

 

Simon

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There are 4 mic positions for each mic type. I have no idea what happens with the amp models. The thing is with just the IRs alone the parameters on the Amps and Effects in the Helix react more like a real amp or effect. Line 6 did an amazing job in the amp model department, it truly shows with these IRs, all I have to say is WOW. It is surprising how the Helix responds to these IRs. ML Sound Lab is no Joke. That is my opinion.

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HI

 

thanks

6 hours ago, Evan329 said:

There are 4 mic positions for each mic type....

Which Mics do they  use?

 

6 hours ago, Evan329 said:

...The thing is with just the IRs alone the parameters on the Amps and Effects in the Helix react more like a real amp or effect. ...

Just  to be sure that i get you right: You say that even  the IRs  alone (without the presets) are a good value, correct?

 

In general I would like the shop to have more and more detailed information about what you get by buying the packages. ;-)

No offense, but there are just 1-2 pictures (of course artificial ones since this is a pure digital product) and a little text about how great the product is.

I guess the shop itself is just started and yet 'work in progress'...

 

 

 

 

 

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Hi! Let me try and clarify things for you guys. As of yesterday we're also offering Amp Packs, before that we've done Cab Packs that are impulse response (IR) collection.

 

Here's a video overview of our MEGA OVERSIZE Cab Pack and how it works with Helix:

 

This particular Cab Pack comes with 8 mics and 5 brightness positions per mic. In addition 8 real life mic mixes. When you get these packs there's a separate format for Helix but it also comes with extremely high resolution 96khz 24bit 500ms IR files that ensure that the IR's are future proof.

 

This is the microphone list:

Shure™ SM57
Shure™ SM7B
Shure™ SM58
Royer™ R121
Sennheiser™ e906
Sennheiser™ MD421
Beyerdynamic™ M160
Neumann™ KM184

 

Yesterday we released our first official Amp Pack which includes "A.M.P."s as in A = authentically M = matched P = presets. The purpose of these presets is to end the debate of "do modelers sound like real amps"  and actually create soundalike presets of real life tube amplifiers. Here's a comparison clip between the real amp vs ML Amp Packs:

 

 

ML Amp Packs come with one sample IR to get you going. Of course ML Amp Packs and Cab Packs work perfectly when used together.

 

Ask me anything. I'll chime in every now and then to answer any questions.

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So, if I am following the marketing talk correctly.... :)

 

AMP Pack = Presets + 1 Cabinet IR

CAB Pack = Cabinet IR's w/various microphones and placements

 

For those of us that just want good cabinet/mic choices, are there options other than MESA for the Helix? 

 

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I’m intrigued. Will you be posting other cab configurations (1x12, 2x12, 4x10)?

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3 hours ago, codamedia said:

So, if I am following the marketing talk correctly.... :)

 

AMP Pack = Presets + 1 Cabinet IR

CAB Pack = Cabinet IR's w/various microphones and placements

 

For those of us that just want good cabinet/mic choices, are there options other than MESA for the Helix? 

 

Yes this is a much clearer way to say it. :)

1 hour ago, Verne-Bunsen said:

I’m intrigued. Will you be posting other cab configurations (1x12, 2x12, 4x10)?

There will be more Cab Packs and Amp Packs on the way for sure. I have quite an impressive collection of super rare amps and cabs after all. F.ex. all variants of the pre-Rola Greenback. ;)

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40$ is far too much to take a chance on a single cab. It may be ok for the next guy, but i already have to many IRs Ive gotten stuck with (and from the most noteable vendors) because there is no demo available. $80 on celestion IRs, and i get far more than MLSL offers, and i may as well have taken that money and thrown it in the garbage. Sorry but celestion's latest release of the suhrs really pushed me over the edge on that whole deal.

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Hmm... so if you're unhappy with another IR producers work... shouldn't that have the opposite reaction? :D Won't really comment on other people's work but it should go without saying that "not all IR's are created equal". I would gladly debate that we at ML shoot the most realistic, clean and authentic IR's and that's just because of the IR shoot method has been tried and tested and fine tuned for about 8 years and we've been a big part of the further development of the IR format into mic+di shooting and raw non-minimum-phase-transformed file formats. Still most of an IR producer's job is to know how to mic up cabs well and that takes years of practice. I've had a self-built 4x12 sized xyz-axis microphone robot for 3 years prior to Dynamount creating that xy-axis robot which is what pretty much every other IR producer is using. If you've ever miked a guitar cab you'll know that a guitar speaker sounds completely different if you f.ex. pull the mic straight up or to the side. The best mic positions are usually somewhere in-between "straight up" or "to the side" and most IR producers never even try those positions. Try the freebie and if it's not at all your thing then you'll at least know: bit.ly/MLSoundLab

 

 

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1 hour ago, MLSoundLab said:

Hmm... so if you're unhappy with another IR producers work... shouldn't that have the opposite reaction? :D Won't really comment on other people's work but it should go without saying that "not all IR's are created equal". I would gladly debate that we at ML shoot the most realistic, clean and authentic IR's and that's just because of the IR shoot method has been tried and tested and fine tuned for about 8 years and we've been a big part of the further development of the IR format into mic+di shooting and raw non-minimum-phase-transformed file formats. Still most of an IR producer's job is to know how to mic up cabs well and that takes years of practice. I've had a self-built 4x12 sized xyz-axis microphone robot for 3 years prior to Dynamount creating that xy-axis robot which is what pretty much every other IR producer is using. If you've ever miked a guitar cab you'll know that a guitar speaker sounds completely different if you f.ex. pull the mic straight up or to the side. The best mic positions are usually somewhere in-between "straight up" or "to the side" and most IR producers never even try those positions. Try the freebie and if it's not at all your thing then you'll at least know: bit.ly/MLSoundLab

 

 

The whole "try the free one to evaluate the others" doesnt work.  Its like test driving a dodge to buy a chevy.  Ive tried the freebie. It doesnt say anything about your other IRs.  In ownhammer speak - why would i try the free mesa when im contemplating a marshall cab?

 

Im happy with Ownhammer and Redwirez. Ive heard about all the clips with your IRs and theyre not doing anything i cant do.Thats why $40 is too expensive. However its always cool to explore new possibilities, but not at the risk of hope.

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38 minutes ago, willjrock said:

The whole "try the free one to evaluate the others" doesnt work.  Its like test driving a dodge to buy a chevy.  Ive tried the freebie. It doesnt say anything about your other IRs.  In ownhammer speak - why would i try the free mesa when im contemplating a marshall cab?

 

Im happy with Ownhammer and Redwirez. Ive heard about all the clips with your IRs and theyre not doing anything i cant do.Thats why $40 is too expensive. However its always cool to explore new possibilities, but not at the risk of hope.

 

Well . . . I think you can glean a little more than that. First, for your car analogy you'd be better off comparing a Dodge Stratus to a Dodge Neon. Keep them in the family.

 

IF you were to test drive a Dodge Stratus, and you loved it and felt it was well built, you could infer that their other cars might also demonstrate some level of quality.  If you try an IR for one type of cab and you can tell, even if it isn't your kind of cab, that it is done REALLY well, you can safely infer that their other IRs are too.

 

No analogy is ever perfect though. FOR IRs there isn't much more they can offer other than listening tests and a freebie or two.  The only other option is to give it all away . . . and then there's no reason for you to buy it.

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15 minutes ago, Kilrahi said:

 

 

 

No analogy is ever perfect though. FOR IRs there isn't much more they can offer other than listening tests and a freebie or two.  The only other option is to give it all away . . . and then there's no reason for you to buy it.

Theres gotta be a way. My god we can get to the moon! 

 

Model an amp that sounds good with the IRs, release them together, as a package, baked into one another for lack of a better description, and put a time restriction on the demo?? Im going to say its do-able somehow.

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I think the Problem is that IRs are pure Data and i No way coupled Go a Software that could implement Restrictions. So the vendor has to rely on the customers integrity.

And i can understand why they shy away from trail versions.

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Yeah but if i were to go buy them right now, i could hand you the whole collection without any trouble at all. I could sell them if i wanted to. Whatever, its not hurting me any,  other than it would be nice to demo stuff.  

 

All im saying is that IRs are always a chance. $40 is way too much when the best IRs in the world are available for 15$ and less

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16 minutes ago, willjrock said:

All im saying is that IRs are always a chance. $40 is way too much when the best IRs in the world are available for 15$ and less

 

But how do you knooooww they're the best? You haven't tried these yet. (wink wink)

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12 hours ago, willjrock said:

Theres gotta be a way. My god we can get to the moon! 

 

Yet neither Amtrak nor the post office can turn a profit... life is weird. ;)

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Hi

 

1 hour ago, willjrock said:

Yeah but if i were to go buy them right now, i could hand you the whole collection without any trouble at all. I could sell them if i wanted to. Whatever, its not hurting me any,  other than it would be nice to demo stuff.  ....

I think the human psychology makes a difference here: When you've paid for something you are far less likely to break the contract, because  you 'own' it in a different/deeper way.

I know it still may happen but the 'self-excuses' for stuff you didn't pay for are waaaaaay more established ('Didn't  found the time to check',  'Is  not really THAT good', 'No-one pays for that', 'Can't afford it', ....).

I can understand that MLSoundLab doesn't want to get WinRAR-ed. ;-)

 

 

1 hour ago, willjrock said:

...

All im saying is that IRs are always a chance. $40 is way too much ...

It's  too much for me too. Esp. since i am not really a 'Mesa man' and i think, my hearing is just  not that evolved to figure out all that nuances between different IRs.

(Got myself a few 3Sigma packages for 30 Eur and are not through with them ;-) )

 

Maybe a way would be to release ONE trial/free IR (per cabinet perhaps) and offer a complete set with different Mics, combinations and positions only to paying customers.....

 

Bye

 

Simon

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Yeah I mean it's unprotected digital goods we're talking about here. The problem with sample IR's is that if that IR is meant to be impressive then it's most likely one of the best IR's in the pack. If it's not then it might not impress too many people. I probably don't have to explain the risks of giving away most of the best IR's for free. And 29.99€ is $34.45. It's a store in Europe and our currency is the euro. :) But sure this is the digital age... just imagine someone going to a guitar store looking for a tubescreamer and demanding a mini tubescreamer for free before they make the decision to get the big tubescreamer?

 

 

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30 minutes ago, MLSoundLab said:

...just imagine someone going to a guitar store looking for a tubescreamer and demanding a mini tubescreamer for free before they make the decision to get the big tubescreamer?

 

 

 

If I may venture upon a larger theme for a moment...as ridiculous as it is, this is the world we live in now. There is an (increasingly vocal) contingent of folks who believe that nearly everything is a birthright... and they act accordingly. And in the relentless pursuit of votes, our fearless leaders promise them mountains of free $hit. Comical expectations for everything under the sun is the inevitable result. One needn't look any farther than the confines of this forum for repeated examples of exactly this behavior...the relentless griping about content/ quality/ frequency of firmware updates. There are those who think that because they spent money on "Unit X" 3 years ago, that they're entitled to a lifetime of product evolution... it's bizarre. 

 

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1 hour ago, brue58ski said:

 

But how do you knooooww they're the best? You haven't tried these yet. (wink wink)

Well i DID try the "best IR in the world" and lets just say I dont use it at all. Yeah i have bent modeling amps to fit that IR, and it sounds OK, but its unlike the other IRs i use, and the other IRs sound the way i know a cabinet to sound. Cabs that i own. 

 

32 minutes ago, cruisinon2 said:

 

Yet neither Amtrak nor the post office can turn a profit... life is weird. ;)

Nor, as a 47 year old man, can i tie a tie, so i get it.

 

1 minute ago, MLSoundLab said:

 just imagine someone going to a guitar store looking for a tubescreamer and demanding a mini tubescreamer for free before they make the decision to get the big tubescreamer?

 

 

Poor analogy. I can order a tubescreamer from sweetwater, try it for 30 days and then return it. I really cant think of an Item a user CANT try first (yes i get the whole digital goods thing) ........and nobody is "demanding" anything here. Furthermore a demo is a sidenote of the main issue i have. Charge a hundred for them if you want. Thats totally your prerogative.  

 

4 minutes ago, MLSoundLab said:

And 29.99€ is $34.45.

In the states it is, but in Canada its $45, so i split the difference.

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So buy the other IRs. It's not that complicated. If you don't like the price, don't spend the money. ML has been getting major praise on a bunch of forums lately, and they think they have a killer product, so they charge accordingly. Since the IRs don't run in a specific program, its pretty hard to time-limit their usage for demo purposes. That's why a lot of VST amp sim manufacturers (including L6) have made their included/purchased IRs semi-proprietary. It's been seen A TON on other forums where people will buy Ownhammer IRs, rename them, and then include them in for-sale preset packages, and that's BS. I'm gonna try out the freebie tonight, because I'm already using MESA OS IRs, so I have a good comparison already. But complaining that you can't try the whole pack for free is kinda entitled and asinine. 

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Hi MLSoundLab

 

you don't have to justify your business to me. ;-)

I already suspected the 'unprotected-digital-goodness' as a  major problem and am full on your side (esp. as musician and software devolper ;-) ).

Also to get this out of the way: I am NOT begging for something for free/cheap here ... i don't think i am a potential user of Mesa IRs!

 

40 minutes ago, MLSoundLab said:

....The problem with sample IR's is that if that IR is meant to be impressive then it's most likely one of the best IR's in the pack. If it's not then it might not impress too many people. ..

 

On the other hand: If the customer doesn't have a chance to evaluate the product at all .... how can he  be impressed? :-D

(the youtube videos of ALL IRs are impressive to the same degree  .... and if  you listen to them via cheap headphones this degree is rather low :-D ).

But i see your point: You can't win customers with a low quality sample.

On the other hand: Aren't  ALL of your IRs high  quality (and only different in character)?

 

41 minutes ago, MLSoundLab said:

... just imagine someone going to a guitar store looking for a tubescreamer and demanding a mini tubescreamer for free before they make the decision to get the big tubescreamer?

It's the other way round: Imagine the guitar store would not let you try the tubescreamer before you have bought it (and without the chance of giving it back) and only refers to Youtube videos. :-D

 

 

40 minutes ago, MLSoundLab said:

...And 29.99€ is $34.45. It's a store in Europe and our currency is the euro....

... and i am working my way through my 3Sigma Collection of 6 Cabs, 2 amps, 5 positions and 2 combinations each for the same price - together. ;-)

Don't want to offend you (and maybe i will change my mind some day) .. but i am experimenting with my VW,  Toyota, Citroen and Ford and  am not really the right type for your Porsche.

 

Rock on

 

Simon

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14 minutes ago, gunpointmetal said:

So buy the other IRs. It's not that complicated. If you don't like the price, don't spend the money. ML has been getting major praise on a bunch of forums lately, and they think they have a killer product, so they charge accordingly. Since the IRs don't run in a specific program, its pretty hard to time-limit their usage for demo purposes. That's why a lot of VST amp sim manufacturers (including L6) have made their included/purchased IRs semi-proprietary. It's been seen A TON on other forums where people will buy Ownhammer IRs, rename them, and then include them in for-sale preset packages, and that's BS. I'm gonna try out the freebie tonight, because I'm already using MESA OS IRs, so I have a good comparison already. But complaining that you can't try the whole pack for free is kinda entitled and asinine. 

Why are you even speaking right now?  Not interested in comments from the peanut gallery.  Im having a conversation, and you think you need to rush to MLSL defense by attacking me?  What, are you his bodyguard lol? or are you just trolling on in, attempting to start drama -as usual. The only thing assine here is you thinking youre qualified to give me orders. 

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47 minutes ago, gunpointmetal said:

....But complaining that you can't try the whole pack for free is kinda entitled and asinine. 

Would be ... but using strawman argumentation definitely is. ;-)

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12 minutes ago, willjrock said:

Why are you even speaking right now?  Not interested in comments from the peanut gallery.  Im having a conversation, and you think you need to rush to MLSL defense by attacking me?  What, are you his bodyguard lol? or are you just trolling on in, attempting to start drama -as usual. The only thing assine here is you thinking youre qualified to give me orders. 

Yes, I'm his bodyguard, and you're obviously 14-15. If you felt personally attacked by my comments (as I didn't quote, or mention any specific post) might be time for some introspection.

4 minutes ago, Simon268 said:

Would be ... but using strawman argumentation definitely is. ;-)

What is the Strawman argument here? There's a sample, if you don't have any use for that cab, or care to sample it to compare to other similar IRs, don't worry about it. Any IR freebie pack isn't going to included every microphone combination/setup, so giving you one versus giving you five isn't going to make much a of a difference, and if you find the one you like in a pack of five freebies, you're not gonna spend any money anyways.

 

You guys talk like this guy owes you something other than what's being offered or you're somehow being bamboozled on a product you're not even buying.

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9 minutes ago, gunpointmetal said:

...What is the Strawman argument here? ....

 

It's going from 'I find it too risky to spend 40 bucks for something i don't have ANY chance of getting an impression of by myself' to

1 hour ago, gunpointmetal said:

...But complaining that you can't try the whole pack for free is kinda entitled and asinine. 

 

(i think ignoring the arguments of others and using belitteling language doesn't strengthen the argumentation either ... but i think that's 'common internet style' - unfortunately)

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But you do have the chance to get an impression, and again, if my comments felt like a personal attack, that's on you friend. My conversational style isn't dependent on my location relative to a keyboard, just don't have time for soft language. Sorry, or something.

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38 minutes ago, gunpointmetal said:

But you do have the chance to get an impression, ...

First: I added the '... by myself" part for a reason.

Second: Must have missed  it. Can you show me, where?

Third: Don't  point to YT-Video - hearing YT compressed sound of other guitarists playing other tunes on other guitars through other gear doesn't really transfer good my playing, tunes, guitar, gear ... and esp. FEEL.

Would you buy a tubescreamer just  based on YT? (esp. if you have other tubescreamers and that new one only adds subtle nuances)

 

38 minutes ago, gunpointmetal said:

...if my comments felt like a personal attack, that's on you friend....

Really? How can 'entitled and asinine' be understood as respectful and  objective?

When was the last time you called your mother that?

And how impressed was she by you saying, you didn't have time for '...soft  language...'?

 

 

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21 hours ago, MLSoundLab said:
13 minutes ago, Simon268 said:

 

First: I added the '... by myself" part for a reason.

Second: Must have missed  it. Can you show me, where?

Third: Don't  point to YT-Video - hearing YT compressed sound of other guitarists playing other tunes on other guitars through other gear doesn't really transfer good my playing, tunes, guitar, gear ... and esp. FEEL.

Would you buy a tubescreamer just  based on YT? (esp. if you have other tubescreamers and that new one only adds subtle nuances)

 

Really? How can 'entitled and asinine' be understood as respectful and  objective?

When was the last time you called your mother that?

And how impressed was she by you saying, you didn't have time for '...soft  language...'?

 

 

Hmm... so if you're unhappy with another IR producers work... shouldn't that have the opposite reaction? :D Won't really comment on other people's work but it should go without saying that "not all IR's are created equal". I would gladly debate that we at ML shoot the most realistic, clean and authentic IR's and that's just because of the IR shoot method has been tried and tested and fine tuned for about 8 years and we've been a big part of the further development of the IR format into mic+di shooting and raw non-minimum-phase-transformed file formats. Still most of an IR producer's job is to know how to mic up cabs well and that takes years of practice. I've had a self-built 4x12 sized xyz-axis microphone robot for 3 years prior to Dynamount creating that xy-axis robot which is what pretty much every other IR producer is using. If you've ever miked a guitar cab you'll know that a guitar speaker sounds completely different if you f.ex. pull the mic straight up or to the side. The best mic positions are usually somewhere in-between "straight up" or "to the side" and most IR producers never even try those positions. Try the freebie and if it's not at all your thing then you'll at least know: bit.ly/MLSoundLab

 

 

try the link the manufacturer posted, dur. 

If my mother was being asinine and entitled, you bet I would call her on it, and I'm pretty sure I learned the "leave the BS at the door" from my 'rents.

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