Jump to content
Jeffsco

Had Enough Of The Hd500...buying A Kemper

Recommended Posts

+100

Great idea Dean. I bet nobody will take you up on it though. They don't have the time. If they did they would have got the tone they needed out of the PODHD.

Time? Who's got time to dial in a good tone? The Pod Poo Poo Patrol has got a dissertation to write on just how badly the Pod Sucks! Ain't nobody got no time to dial in no good tone! Shoooot!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

.  to sum up, the Kemper sounds about $4,000 better than the Pod HD.  

 

 

Kemper introductory price was $1500 and you could get one brand new for 1400 or 1450. One year after release and based on demand price went up to 2190 but  this week it's trending down to 1980.

 

With a little math the roughly $500 increase was just to see how much more they can get. At $1500 they were probably profitable, but the 2k price puts it in  a Category that attracts those who love to buy expensive products (cars, bed sheets with high thread counts, etc), basically products priced at several multiples of what they're actually worth.

 

Line 6 should have made a deal with Kemper to sell him the POD HD500 stripped down to a controller only, have them painted at a different color and sell it as a controller for the Kemper at $1000. I guarantee that many will buy it and swear by it.

 

but your idea of $4000 price tag might appeal to Kemper, even though I'm sure they would have already been charging 5k for it they knew they could.

 

I personally like to support companies who charge a fair price and don't gouge unsuspecting consumers, That's one thing that I highly respect and admire about line 6 but I still buy gear from many other companies also.

 

With all due respect to you and for the sake of debate and argument, can you please provide us with two tracks of a short performance, one of them being a DI track using the Kemper, as per my other post so we can try to Re-amp your performance and see if the Kemper is truly  $4000 better to the rest of us and not just you. In other words to eliminate the personal preference because to me personally, the kemper doesn't even sound one single dollar better than the POD HD and I'm referencing real tube amps that I own. So as you see, it's my word against yours until, you prove to everyone that what you're saying isn't just a personal preference to a specific expensive tool!

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Don't forget that Kemper is a GmbH - based in Germany which is Euro and subject to currency variations compared to the US (thanks to some Euro members not balancing their books). I am not saying the Kemper isn't just out to get as much money as they can make, just that it might be partially down to currently rates...

 

I am seriously considering a L3t at the moment imported from a German dealer because their price undercuts everybody in the UK by hundreds of pounds and a large part of that is currency rates

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Don't forget that Kemper is a GmbH - based in Germany which is Euro and subject to currency variations compared to the US (thanks to some Euro members not balancing their books). I am not saying the Kemper isn't just out to get as much money as they can make, just that it might be partially down to currently rates...

 

The dollar was weaker at the time of Kemper release. For united states customers, Kemper should have dropped in price if it was based on currency exchange alone, but many "small and boutique" companies do this introductory price thing.  They up the price  if demand is very high and they can get away with it. Currently "AMPLIFIRE" from Atomic is at introductory price of 599, but from clips I'm hearing it's not better than the HD but who knows, some folks like to pay more.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Old meambobbo did a great favor to all of us with his guide! It is a honor that he still pay a visit at our site after he did get a kemper. Hepdog, have in mind that most of the users complaining for pod HD, they do it because the love the unit and line 6, and want to improve... After all, the good results happen when you rise your voice against, rather when praising.

 

Absolutely. I have nothing but mad respect for Meambobbo—his guide is a great resource. Hope he sticks around, even if it is to smack us around a bit. ;)

  • Upvote 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's worth noting, that to achieve the dual amp stereo routing that the HD500 can do, you would need TWO Kempers... The Kemper for all it's wizardry, can only do one profile at a time...Plus I suppose you would need two of the new $600 Kemper remote foot controllers; which are on a waiting list to get one - though it cannot currently control things like FX parameters - delay rate, feedback, reverb decay, etc. Another feature we take for granted on the HD500. So, in addition to the $1,200 for two Kemper remotes, you'd need to also get a MIDI controller, and deal with programming it accordingly.

 

For me, I have too much invested in my dual amp Line6 rig as it is, to worry about spending $5,000+ on a dual amp / dual Kemper rig.. I suppose, I could run my Line6 rig as is (JTV59, HD500x, two DT25's) and also send the JTV 1/4" out the Kemper, into my pair of L2t's. I currently run the XLR outs from the DT amps to a mixer, then to the L2t's, for home recording, when I want to jam at full volume, but still want isolated, dual amp model recording signals..

 

I like how the HD500 + DT25 creates something that goes beyond what either device can do by itself. The DT amps are both the solution for sound amplification, AND an integral part of the tone creation. The XLR signal coming from the DT's sounds stellar. Fewer options than programming the HD500 and every single 'studio/direct' detail - but the trade off is, amazing real tube tone, while still preserving the isolated XLR direct signal. To get that in stereo, you need two DT's; but that's still a lot less than two Kemper's.

 

I also really like how the JTV integrates into the system; splitting the mags and models, for example, is my new thing. I love the sound of the variax mags through one amp model, into one DT, and the variax models into another amp model, and it's own DT. Balancing those sounds is killer, it just sounds stellar - both live from the amps, and through the XLR recording signal. A JTV is no slouch on price either - but, for the price of two Kemper's to get dual amp models, you could buy an HD500x, a JTV, two DT25's, and still have $500 left over.

 

I imagine Kemper + Stagesource sounds pretty stellar though! :) Get a pair of L3t's dialed in... OR even the L2t's, those little guys are loud and punchy, with really tight low end. Annoying fan noise... but that doesn't really matter if everything is going direct.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This discussion is so boring.........God bless.  Go.......Use a Kemper.....or what ever you want.......I'm not trying to be mean or anything else.......Hopefully all the folks that are debating the finer point of this discussion will respond and discuss issues with folks who want to make their HD work rather that try convince someone their $2000 Kemper isn't as good as a HD 500 with 2 L2ts.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Dean, I'll happily accept the challenge. Give me some time. I have to move things around to get back to doing any recordings, but I promise it will be the first thing I get to.

 

I have written a Pod HD vs. Kemper comparison, and there are numerous things I prefer about the Pod. And as mentioned, although I dont use one, the Pod can control a Variax. Same with a L6 DT amp. I wont release my comparison without comparison clips, though, which I dont have time to record for some time.

 

I dont have any agenda against the Pod or L6, although the HD certainly left me with a bad taste in my mouth, not because it sucked, but it glimmers with such promise that it never reaches.

 

Of course this is all just my opinion. You are welcome to ignore it and i respect you whatever your conclusion.

 

You can debate price and theories of value and claim gouging, etc. Theres only one way to look at value - different people place different values and prices on different things. Arm chair quarterbacking about what should and shouldnt be doesnt mean anything.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hmm, that last post didnt convey what i wanted to say which is that i generally like this community and am not here to dog the Pod in general. I may come off that way in THIS thread, but thats just because i like the Kemper so much.

 

I never intend to take my tone guide down, and i answer all the emails i get through my site trying to help people get the best tone they can from the unit. I understand affordability is a big issue. It was for me, and it was difficult to scrap together the money for the Kemper especially since im not a professional. We all want the best tone possible. The Pod HD is definitely a step in the right direction.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah, I feel positive about any and all gear that advances the world of music! I love my L6 gear, it's awesome, but that doesn't stop me from finding inspiration from Kemper, or any other thing. Keep the groove going, find the melody, and always remember that the one is where you think it is.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Dean, I'll happily accept the challenge. Give me some time. I have to move things around to get back to doing any recordings, but I promise it will be the first thing I get to.

 

 

meambobbo,

you're a good sport and awesome human being. I think it would be fun.  I'm personally never offended by anything in the course of a discussion and that's all this is, a discussion. I happen to think that advancement in modeling in the last five years created a new league of modelers and software plugins that are capable of producing very good guitar tones. I think that most important ingredient will always be the performance and that's why those who demonstrate all new gear are usually very skilled performers.

 

I'd be willing to bet that if we have direct tracks of demos, and re-amp in most modeling gadgets nowadays, the results will be very similar. I think Pod Hd is right up there with the big boys, might need a little more work and experience, that's about it.

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To be fair to the HD pricewise it's unbeatable for what it does, miles behind Axe or Kemper but fathoms in front of GT100 or RP1000, it's in a league of it's own, so no argument threr. Just wish Line 6 and Yamaha stop mucking about and create something new, not a budget priced toy, but something Alex Lifeson or Andy Summers would use onstage. Something that would kick Roland and Fractal in the butt, They have the resources so go get em! All competion is good, We would all only benefit from it.

  • Upvote 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I love this thread. Sure, it's a bit chatty and there is some off-topic avocado flying around but it seems that in the end we might get real comparison clips from respected members of the community here which would be fantastic. Just pretty please don't let this fade away. Perhaps start a new clearly labelled thread for that which we'd try to keep avocado-free?

 

Anyway, whenever you're ready... :rolleyes:

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Enjoy the Kemper OP, i've thought about getting one but the price is just too high right now. 

 

I think one of the problems people have with the Pod HD is bloated patches with too much EQ, boosts and such. My best patches just use the amp model and whatever FX i need. I don't use any mid focus or extra EQ's. They might sound good around the house but playing in a band the models sound great as-is. Once you are dealing with 12 different EQ's and tweaking a bunch of cab parameters, of course it's going to be rocket science to perfect your tone. Not all the models are great, but the ones that are sound good "right out of the box". 

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think one of the problems people have with the Pod HD is bloated patches with too much EQ, boosts and such.

 

I agree, using the K.I.S.S rule can pay off big.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Enjoy the Kemper OP, i've thought about getting one but the price is just too high right now. 

 

I think one of the problems people have with the Pod HD is bloated patches with too much EQ, boosts and such. My best patches just use the amp model and whatever FX i need. I don't use any mid focus or extra EQ's. They might sound good around the house but playing in a band the models sound great as-is. Once you are dealing with 12 different EQ's and tweaking a bunch of cab parameters, of course it's going to be rocket science to perfect your tone. Not all the models are great, but the ones that are sound good "right out of the box". 

 

Yeah; the Kemper is just outside the range of G.A.S. impulse spending; anything that costs the entire tax return, for example, gotta hold off!

Knowing going in that I would need to also find a floor controller option, that's also holding me back; and quite frankly, I like using dual amp models with my HD500/JTV/DT25 rig! And two Kempers' is definitely too much $$$.

 

I agree with the HD500 patch tweaking; keep it simple. I try to make the foundation of my tone the amp model; where with everything FX related "off", that amp tone still sounds good, and sits in the same basic volume range that I want be near. I work with the tone and volume knobs on my guitars alot, so I never really think about the patch volume as 'absolute'.

 

I feel that when the effects and drive boosts drastically increase the volume or change the fundamental tone of the guitar + amp model, regardless of amplification options - that once that occurs, you lose something. Stick with effects that compliment the amp model and guitar choice. Get your volumes right without using compressors or boosts or eq's or anything. Then when you add compression effects, dial back the amount of volume boost. Often we repond favorably to 'louder' as seeming like it's more 'full' sounding; but that doesn't translate to stage and recording. Listen to your favorite songs and albums; it's not 'louder' during that more intense part; it's the perception of volume increase. The way they digitally master everything now, it's all relatively equivalent in output level.

 

Listen for tonal changes, and let your ear strive for those critical changes where it gets better sounding, not just louder. Personally, as far as patch programming the HD500 goes, I take a somewhat on the fly approach. I also use DT amps with it, and so I very rarely ever use it in studio/direct mode anymore.

 

I suppose the place the Kemper succeeds in, is taking a narrow slice of your amps settings. Yes, you can adjust the tones and drive of the amp 'profile' once it's created; but still, it's a snapshot of your favorite settings. And often, if you're using a real amp on stage, once your amp is set, you don't change it around much; other than maybe switching channels. So in that sense, the Kemper makes a lot of sense. The Line6 approach, is to give you ALL of the options and control over changing your amps sound, not just a snapshot - but ultimately, for your patches to work well and be consistent and realistic, you still need to dial in the amp, and then don't mess with it. If you are all over the place with tone knobs, and drives, and volumes, plus using alot of FX, then try to balance volumes, it's nearly impossible; or at least, challenging in a non-rewarding way: it's work, not fun.

 

Which is why I still really prefer the HD+DT combination, over going true "FRFR". I really like the XLR outs from the DT, and I don't need to experiment with a bunch of different studio related settings. So I can see why people like the Kemper route, despite the price; especially people who might otherwise eschew digital amp modeling. Because the Kemper is the most likely you can plug and play, and get close to what being with the actual amp feels like. You can probably make analog pedals work quite well with the Kemper; possibly more so than with the HD. I've experimented a bunch with the HD and using analog pedals, yeah, ok, but not great. Ended up going back to using the JTV/HD/DT in dual inputs / dual amp models / dual DT's. And for me, I like it. I tweak less and play more.

 

But I still want a Kemper :) And that's why they call is The G.A.S. :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For all those fine folks who find the Pod a bit "lacking" in some sort of fashion, I'd like to know the following.....

 

*Do you primarily gig with your Pod, "headphone bedroom jam" or use it for recording?

 

If you are a giging guitarist.....

 

*Did you use the Pod in concert with a Variax, and a DT or L-Series speaker via L6 link? (Dream Rig)

*If you didn't have a complete "Dream Rig", how were you connecting your Pod to your amp? (4CM? In front? Amp Fx loop? Vulcan Mind Meld?)

*What type of amp are you connecting your Pod to? 

*What kind of music do you play? Smooth Jazz? Metal? (Djenty stuff) Blues? Classic rock? Worship? (which is a horrible descriptor for that type of rock music!)

 

Lastly, are you trying to sound like someone else? (Cover Band for example) Or are you trying to sound like you? 

 

I believe that there may be an identifiable commonality here. If you could humor me and answer these questions, I think it would be very helpful to people trying to find the take aways from this conversation. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I own several pod versions but ya know what... my AXSYS 2 212 still gets some pretty damn nice tones above all else tube or modeler.  :D 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To answer Tboneous' question:

 

I use the PODHD Desktop's Pre version of the amps and some things like Noise Gate, Delay, and Reverb into the FX Return of a pair of Marshall amps with a 20ms delay between the L and R outputs for a stereo effect. Basically the PODHD is a digital pre-amp for my tube amps. I'm a gigging guitarist in a Sabbath Tribute band. Classic Metal I guess you'd call it.

 

I'm happy and would be thrilled with a Global EQ just to do some final polishing. But not having a decent EQ in the PODHD for so long I finally figured how to tweak Res, Low Cut, Input Z, Early Reflections, Input1 and Input2 set to something else, plus the standard Bass Mid and Treble, I got what I needed.

 

I think that's what turns people off is the weird things you have to learn about the PODHD.

Example:

1) Input 1 and 2 should be different by default.

2) Input Z should be explained better cause that really helped me when I lowered it.

3) DEP Parms and E.R. could be explained better and maybe some different defaults.

4) Global EQ should have been included from day one.

 

I'm still a firm believer that the amp and speakers you use make a huge difference and getting the PODHD to work properly with what you have makes a huge difference. The settings I use probably won't come close to what someone needs for a 4cm setup or FRFR system or DAW. And maybe the Kemper or AXE has a bigger advantage in some of those setups.

Thanx for the reply.

 

I assume since you didn't address it, you don't use a Variax correct? You seem happy with your set up less the global eq thing. I was asking to hear from those who decided that the Pod could not give them what they needed. That doesn't sound like your situation. Sorry if I wasn't clear.

 

I want to hear from those who gave up on the Pod and have moved to other gear. I am curious because if there is a common denominator among those who felt it was necessary to turn in their Pod, which I tend to think there is, it would be helpful to know what that commonality is.

 

I mean if everyone who is convinced that the Pod isnt cutting it is using 4CM through a Honer amplifier, you can see that wouldn't apply to everyone. It could mean that it isn't the Pod that is lacking, but maybe how people are using it and with what and with what expectation of tone. Are you wanting a Fender twin clean tone while plugging it into the front a 25 watt Blackstar? Then your issue is not the Pod. Are you trying to get a Death Metal tone out of your Fender Champ and Tele Thinline? Then your issue is not the Pod.

 

More importantly, those issues wouldn't apply to everyone and using statements like " The Pod is lacking something" may only be a tiny part of a bigger problem that very little to do with the Pod.

 

Of course those examples are silly but hopefully illustrate what I'm getting at.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Are you trying to get a Death Metal tone out of your Fender Champ and Tele Thinline? Then your issue is not the Pod.

 

 

 

I've got this image of a roadie handing a Tele to the guy from Slayer, and just getting a confused look..."What's this?", lol

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've got this image of a roadie handing a Tele to the guy from Slayer, and just getting a confused look..."What's this?", lol

 

Good Lord!!! LOL

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've got this image of a roadie handing a Tele to the guy from Slayer, and just getting a confused look..."WTF is this?", lol

There, all fixed...

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sorry Tboneous, I removed my post.  I didn't read your question close enough.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sorry Tboneous, I removed my post.  I didn't read your question close enough.

There was no need to remove your post. It was very much welcomed and appreciated. It's good to hear from those who are having success with their gear. 

 

I'm just sorry that no one else who feels the Pod is lacking in one way or another; those that have been so very vocal about how "off" the Pod is and how "on" a Kemper is in this case, are not answering my questions.

 

I understand. I mean, who the hell am I that anyone would need to answer to? I'm just another dumb @ss who doesn't realize that his Pod sucks! AND...This IS one hell of a long thread! People are probably just tired of the topic and want to move on. 

 

If those folks would answer my brief survey, I could find out if my hypothesis is true:

 

They primarily gig with the Pod with Recording coming in second.

 

If they are a giging guitarist.....

 

They are not using a complete "Dream Rig" (No Variax, No DT or L)

I can't tell if they are a 4CM, FX loop or Front of the amp kind of person. Very rarely direct through the PA.

They are connecting to an amp that his known for it's gain stage (Marshall, Randall, 5150, etc)

They ain't playin' no smooth jazz! Metal Baby! Hard Rock~N~Roll!!! Let me put it to you this way, No Mr. Bojangles covers! Know what I'm sayin'?

Lastly, they are attempting to sound like someone else. ("..been playing on my Schecter Demon 7, sounds exactly as meshuggah." custom tone 2012)

 

Basically the order of the day for most of these unhappy Pod campers is HI GAIN! "The purpose of this guide is to provide the details Line 6 didn't provide, mostly geared towards getting high gain tones with the Pod HD 500" Pod HD Guide By MEAMBOBBO)

 

​I'm not making any judgments here and I am happy to be wrong as is often the case with me. But if my hypothesis is anywhere near the ball park, then saying stuff like:

 

"Had enough of struggling to get what I need from the HD500"

"Mostly...I'm very tired of the limitations of the HD500"

"What's the point in having great tones if it takes you forever to tweak them?"

"The Kemper is better"

 

...is far too global a statement.

 

Maybe it's you who is struggling to get what you need. Maybe it's you who finds himself limited. Maybe it's you who can't tweak in a timely manner. 

Maybe none of that is a global issue with the Pod but an issue of what you are using, how you are using it and what goal do you have? Not saying that is the case. I'm just asking the question.

 

With my Variax, my DT50, DT25 and L2m, I don't have any problem quickly pulling up a tone that sounds killer. I sometimes pull up a blank patch and build a preset while we are rehearsing and write anew song on the spot based on some weird Fx that I put in the chain. I mean for me it's that easy. But I'm not a Hi Gain guy and my goal is to sound only like me.

 

I know I rambled here for a while. I hope this makes sense.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I understand some of the frustrations people have with the PODHD.  I damn near beat it to death with a hammer when I first got it, I was so frustrated.  More than once I considered selling it and giving up.  But then a bunch of really good people on this forum helped me figure out what I needed. 

 

I think that's key for Line6 to understand and help them make the product easier to deal with and maybe what could have inspired the Firehawk.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I can't help with what makes people unhappy with the HD500. I can only add another data point for people who use and are happy with the HD500.

 

I use my HD500 for live performance gigging and about once in a blue moon to record with.

I have the Dream Rig of Variax JTV -> POD HD500 -> L2m Speaker.

I play music from the 60s and 70s, no high gain or metal stuff in our sets.

My patches tend to be pretty simple. For the most part an amp a tube screamer and some reverb, and a boost at the end for solos (A few songs require effects like a flanger or phaser).

 

Even with my simple patches I have learned a lot and have made them sound better with advice I gleaned from this forum.

 

-Max

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think that's key for Line6 to understand and help them make the product easier to deal with and maybe what could have inspired the Firehawk.

 

Ease of use is immensely important to us, and we've learned a ton about what does and doesn't work from POD HD. Yes, Firehawk reflects much of what we've learned, but there's always room for improvement.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I can't help with what makes people unhappy with the HD500. I can only add another data point for people who use and are happy with the HD500.

 

I use my HD500 for live performance gigging and about once in a blue moon to record with.

I have the Dream Rig of Variax JTV -> POD HD500 -> L2m Speaker.

I play music from the 60s and 70s, no high gain or metal stuff in our sets.

My patches tend to be pretty simple. For the most part an amp a tube screamer and some reverb, and a boost at the end for solos (A few songs require effects like a flanger or phaser).

 

Even with my simple patches I have learned a lot and have made them sound better with advice I gleaned from this forum.

 

-Max

Alrighty then! Now we's gettin' somewhere!

 

Gigging Guitarist Check!

You have a Dream Rig. Check!

No Hi Gain. Check!

Simple patches = limited tweaking Check!

 

Happy Camper! Check!

 

The hypothesis is being fulfilled Obi Wan!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here's a quick Scientific challenge to prove that the POD HD is just as capable as Kemper or AXE II

 

and No it's not a challenge of playing Skills either.

 

Anyone who's reading this thread who has an AXE FX or Kemper can post  a downloadable link to two small files of MP3 quality of 160kbps or above of a short performance using their favorite patch in that device (Kemper or AXE II). The two tracks should be of the same performance, one of them is a DI track,  so I, or any POD HD owners, will re-amp that track using the POD HD  to "Tone Match" or "Profile" the wet track using only the POD HD and human ears

 

  :D 

 

I personally guarantee that I will get you a sound that will be very close and if not identical it might be better and I will post the HD 500 Patch. If you keep posting different sounds, I will keep posting corresponding  patches using HD500 until you have enough to consider whether you want to keep your Kemper or AXE. If you're interested  that  we get closer patches, it would be nice to give little information about the amp or pedals used.

Fair enough?  I think it's more that fair and it's the only way that will give an accurate representation of what each unit can do.

 

Any other approach involving two different performances by two different players will be skewed for very obvious reasons (more skilled player will sound better regardless) . Anyone who has a Kemper or AXE II should be able to provide a direct track fairly easy, but I have a feeling that no one will provide direct tracks because sadly people in general don't like to face reality head on. I don't think someone who spent 2500 or more on AXEII is interested in having his direct track Re-amped using the POD HD coming out sounding the same and better. Make no mistake about it, it will sound just as good or better using the POD HD.

 

I personally think that you will fail to achieve what you guarantee. I will explain why and maybe someone can throw some arguments in to change my mind.

If we are set to "tone match" tones from AXE2 to POD HD (using only the unit and nothing more), we are going to have a huge obstacle on our way - impulse responses. While the AXE allows for custom impulse responses to be used, the POD is stuck with what's inside the unit (it ain't the best either). There's no going around this issue imho.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Note that the challenge is based on the auditory perception of sound, not on any technical methods or specifications used to generate the sound.

 

I agree with you that there's no getting around the IRs as well as many other technical differences. But the question is: how much does it matter, based on a comparison of the resulting sound? You may well be right that the challenger is doomed to failure. But as far as I know nobody has taken him up on the challenge. We can talk technical differences all day long, and for the price difference I sure hope there's a sound difference. But that's the challenge, isn't it?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Note that the challenge is based on the auditory perception of sound, not on any technical methods or specifications used to generate the sound.

 

I agree with you that there's no getting around the IRs as well as many other technical differences. But the question is: how much does it matter, based on a comparison of the resulting sound? You may well be right that the challenger is doomed to failure. But as far as I know nobody has taken him up on the challenge. We can talk technical differences all day long, and for the price difference I sure hope there's a sound difference. But that's the challenge, isn't it?

 

I'm interested to see what will happen as well. I'm just thinking that it won't be easy (if possible at all) to get certain tones. I have the HD Pro and I love it. The problem is that the IRs that are inside the unit are too limited. The HD really shines when you use custom IRs (bypass cab/mic and add IR from the DAW), especially for high gain tones. I would gladly throw few hundred bucks for a custom IRs feature, it will really unlock the potential of the unit.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I can't help with what makes people unhappy with the HD500. I can only add another data point for people who use and are happy with the HD500.

 

I use my HD500 for live performance gigging and about once in a blue moon to record with.

I have the Dream Rig of Variax JTV -> POD HD500 -> L2m Speaker.

I play music from the 60s and 70s, no high gain or metal stuff in our sets.

My patches tend to be pretty simple. For the most part an amp a tube screamer and some reverb, and a boost at the end for solos (A few songs require effects like a flanger or phaser).

 

Even with my simple patches I have learned a lot and have made them sound better with advice I gleaned from this forum.

 

-Max

 

I'm also really happy with my rig and the points from Max EXACTLY mirror mine.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I always intended to start a thread to thank you all for your support in the past, the entertaining and informative reads I've enjoyed here, and not least Line6 who've managed to provide go-to tones for me since the early to mid '90s.

 

Whilst I'll be hanging onto my Variaxes, along with the 4 power supplies and half-dozen USB interfaces I've purchased just last week to compensate for my not being able to use VDI, which I'm a huge fan of, I'm truly sad to say that for the time being at least, my epic POD journey has been suspended. I don't doubt that L6 will learn from feedback it receives on the HD line, but for me, it was the proverbial straw. I need to practice as I'm a terrible player, and the thousand-or-more hours I put into the HD editing over 2 years would obviously have been much better spent doing exactly this! We live and learn... I more slowly than others, it seems.

 

Anyway, rather than start that thread, I'm going to use this opportunity to thank you all again for a fun and informative forum. So many good folks have plunged a lot of their time and energy into it; I appreciate that. Good stuff. I'll still monitor things here to track L6's progress with the POD line, as well as to try to keep up with all things Variax, as I've always been a HUGE fanboy, as I was until fairly recently of the POD line. Don't get me wrong, I still reckon the original PODs, the POD 2s and PODxts were the best units for me, with the X3s a little behind them only 'cause of the increased complexity. It's just that the HDs, for me at least, have fallen a long way behind. Hi-Fi, powerful, scratchy-sounding... and impenetrable!

 

Anyway, now that I've thanked you all, a few more boring specifics for those who may be interested. Feel free to skip this stuff as the bottom line has already been articulated.

 

Thank you all again!

 

Meambobbo wrote:

And if you think the Kemper is a slight tone improvement, I would question if you've ever played one.

 

I agree. Talk of a "slight" improvement and even a mention of there being a 5% difference are borne out of ignorance in the truest sense of the word, meaning, "to ignore". It's not about stupidity; it's about being uninformed.

 

Meambobbo wrote:

i had a great opinion of line 6 from 2003 until about 2 years ago

 

... and I from the early '90s until about 2 years ago.

 

HD500

Owned every POD since 1.0, including 2 POD 2s, 3 PODxts, 3 BassPODxts, 2 XTLives, an X3 Live, HD500 as well as the Pro versions of the POD 2.0, BassPODxt and PODX3. The HD500 killed it for me. I considered reverting to the PODxt or even the POD 2, especially given their cost these days on eBay. I used to use "manual mode" on those puppies, and it only ever took seconds to get cream out of them. I can't for the life of me get full-fat cream out of the HD.

 

I spent 2 years editing the HD500. My health issues made this a physically painful procedure, no matter the position I placed the unit (and myself!) in. 2 years of pain, followed by perhaps 3 or 4 months to "fully" recover. What I have to show for this effort is a set of 4 presets for each amp - clean, overdrive, heavy and lead. I took painstaking care to optimise all parameters so as to render the presets, to my ears at least, almost universally useful. That is to say, using practically any axe one could think of, one would have good starting points with any of 'em. All scratchiness (the main challenge) was dialled out without the use of EQ! That, I can tell you, took some doing.

 

I'm still proud of what I was able to achieve, and would have been happy to stick with these presets, if it weren't for one thing: The unit's latency. It's even worse when coupled with one of my Variaxes. That immediacy one experiences from, say, a nice tube combo, was sorely missed. I'd say I'm a crappy guitarist, having spent my time thus far learning audio engineering, keys, bass and vox, so it could be that this factor is more important to someone in my position than to an already-proficient guitarist. Nevertheless, as crappy as I am, through the HD I play like a crappy version of myself, and believe me, that's crappy! The one time I got to borrow my step-dad's Vox valve combo (one of those white 4w jobs), I played out of my skin, which for the uninformed was obviously still crappy, but waaay less so. I learned a valuable lesson that day, mid-way through my 2-year HD tweak. I stubbornly pressed on 'though, and as I said, all worked out well, but for that damned latency. BTW, this is with all FX off, in case you're thinking it's just 'cause I piled 'em on or something. This throughput delay seems to kill my ability to "connect" with a guitar. I don't know how else to put it. So, more than any shortcomings sound-wise, it's the unit's latency that finally did me in. Sure, the editing was a nightmare, but like all nightmares, it ended, and right now I should be enjoying the fruits of all that labor.

 

FWIMBW, I have an ear, a damned fine one, although I'm sorry I felt I needed to say that; it seemed necessary to address the inevitable conclusion many might have come to when I said I was a crappy guitarist that I just don't know how to tweak or that I wouldn't know a good sound if it fell on my head. I can assure you, this is not the case. Been a bass player, vocalist, synth programmer and AE for 30 years, so chasing and tweaking sounds is second-nature to me.

 

Variax

I've owned 6 Variaxes starting with the V'ax 700 right through to the JTV59, JTV69, JTV89 and 89F. It literally took 6 guitar purchases and 6 or 7 years of tweaks, repairs, wholesaler swaps (parts and guitars) and modifications to arrive at the two I kept - the 69 and 89F. The 69 had 14 or 15 issues upon arrival, but the 18 months of work I put into it was well worth it as now it's just "there".
 
I bought 3 spare (4 total) power-supplies and 6 USB interfaces for my Variaxes just last week, now that I've decided to leave the PODs for the time being. I've always loved the VDI system, so much so that I still haven't to this day used a battery! Hopefully the power stomp-units I bought will do the job from now on. I already miss the VDI thing, but what can one do? If I use the HD500 (for example) for its VDI port and run the unaffected guitar out of that into a Kemper, I daresay I'd still be introducing unnecessary latency, a larger foot print, a more failure-prone option than the power-supply footswitch and, last but not least increased power consumption (actually a real issue for me).
 
So, bottom line, IMHO, is that the Variaxes rock, provided you can find something you're happy with. Perfection you won't get, and you'll probably have to be prepared to do a whole lot of setup-tweaking, but, again IMHO, it's all worth it with these puppies.

 

Meambobbo wrote:

My Pod HD guide is what... 14 really long web pages?  My Kemper guide is 1 page.

 

My 2nd priority for a processor / modeller, beaten only by the latency factor. Haven't had to open the manual yet, 3 weeks in.

 

Meambobbo wrote:

Anyway, I don't want to poo poo the HD too much.  I just really love the Kemper.

 

Same here... and my Variaxes.

 

As I implied earlier, I'd love to see L6 get the POD line back on track; I suspect it's already been done and we're just not aware of it yet, so I'm not suggesting anyone go out and ditch his or her unit. I'd say, if you're not 100% happy, see if you can hang in there 'till the boffins at L6 release the next iteration. I feel certain our squeals of agony, as well as positive feedback, would have been heard. Surely!

 

Again, thank you for your time, folks, and sorry about the rant. I've nothing to add, and as I'm a slow typist (this took hours!) I'm not likely to respond or partake in a debate about this stuff. I only wanted to update where I'm at with my L6 gear, having been a huge fanboy for so damned long! Folks have questioned why one would even bother to do what I'm attempting with this post. May I say that some, including myself, can't just throw things out without first acknowledging the support and friendship encountered, as well as the usefulness of the product in question.

 

All the best, folks,

Nicky

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I spent 3 hours on a post last night, only to be confronted by the following message when I tried to submit it:

 

This post will need approval from a moderator before it is shown. This restriction will be lifted when you have 1 more approved posts

 

I'm posting this in case said effort disappears into the ether. If nothing else, it may get me closer to being able to post again without "approval".

 

This is new to me; I've not been restricted in any of the many forums I've posted in in the past, including this one. AFAIK, I've not been rude to a single soul throughout the 15 years I've been doing this, so I must say this "vetting" procedure feels, for want of a better description, very 1984.

 

Hopefully that huge post makes/made it through the x-ray machine...

 

EDIT:

PHEW! Looks like it made it through. Ripper.

 

Just had a look at my CP to see if I could find an explanation for this "censorship". My account details haven't changed, although I think my avatar is gone. However, there is no record of my posts.

 

Yup. All my posts are gone. Well done, L6. I'm devastated; many more hours down the drain.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I spent 3 hours on a post last night, only to be confronted by the following message when I tried to submit it:

 

This post will need approval from a moderator before it is shown. This restriction will be lifted when you have 1 more approved posts

 

I'm posting this in case said effort disappears into the ether. If nothing else, it may get me closer to being able to post again without "approval".

 

This is new to me; I've not been restricted in any of the many forums I've posted in in the past, including this one. AFAIK, I've not been rude to a single soul throughout the 15 years I've been doing this, so I must say this "vetting" procedure feels, for want of a better description, very 1984.

 

Hopefully that huge post makes/made it through the x-ray machine...

 

The vetting procedure is simply to filter out possible spam accounts. Before Line 6 moved the forums to this platform, the old forums were being overrun with spam. The number of post that get deleted here that aren't spam is very, very small. You basically have to be outright vulgar or insulting in order for a post to be deleted. No one deletes post simply for being critical of the company or products.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The vetting procedure is simply to filter out possible spam accounts. Before Line 6 moved the forums to this platform, the old forums were being overrun with spam. The number of post that get deleted here that aren't spam is very, very small. You basically have to be outright vulgar or insulting in order for a post to be deleted. No one deletes post simply for being critical of the company or products.

Aah... thank you, Phil. Much appreciated, mate.

 

Still no idea why my avatar and posts have disappeared. All account details remain the same; even the eMail address is up to date, and I've logged in to download software just last week, as I do regularly.

 

Strange, and as I said, hugely disappointing; it's kinda like losing a song, when you lose words / thoughts you wrote, especially if trying to help someone.

 

Hooroo, and thank you again, Phil,

Nicky

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Aah... thank you, Phil. Much appreciated, mate.

 

Still no idea why my avatar and posts have disappeared. All account details remain the same; even the eMail address is up to date, and I've logged in to download software just last week, as I do regularly.

 

Strange, and as I said, hugely disappointing; it's kinda like losing a song, when you lose words / thoughts you wrote, especially if trying to help someone.

 

Hooroo, and thank you again, Phil,

Nicky

 

Well, it appears that this is the first you've posted here since they switched the forums over. Everyone had to go through the same approval process when they made the switch even if they posted on the old forums. I don't remember exactly when they changed it. It's been over a year, I think.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, it appears that this is the first you've posted here since they switched the forums over. Everyone had to go through the same approval process when they made the switch even if they posted on the old forums. I don't remember exactly when they changed it. It's been over a year, I think.

 

 

A-ha! That x'plains it, mate. I've read regularly, at least every 1 or 2 weeks, but haven't posted in a while. Doh!

 

Fixed the avatar anyway. I mean, a man's gotta get his priorities right, no? LOL

 

Thank you again, Phil,

Nicky

 

EDIT: I just realised that this must also be why Safari asked if I wanted to save the password etc. I answered "no", 'cause it already has this info. I'm not sure if I should say yes or not. Hmm... suck it and see?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just because you aren't notified of the need for approval in other places, does not mean that it does not exist. They just aren't telling you.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...