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willjrock

Powercab plus or ASC 10?

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Im going to grab a stereo FRFR set-up. Ive heard the ASM 10's and they sound a LOT better than the ASM 12s. Its kinda not even close....but i have NOT heard a powercab plus yet.

I get that Helix will integrate with powercab better, and there are more features with the powercab plus, and for less money on top of all of that, but i'll end up gravitating to the pair that sounds the best, which in theory i guess they should sound about the same. Though i *think* the powercab plus has a twelve in it? That would mean more to me if i were only getting one unit.

 

Which would you lean towards with tones being your main focus? If you have any reasoning youd like to share that would be cool too. Im guessing here, but the powercab probably carries firmware that will come with updates?  growth is something that probably should not be ignored all together. Thanks for any thought.

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Powercab and the ASM 10's are both FRFR, but  a different kind of FRFR. They're both optimized for electric guitar by having the woofer being essentially a coaxial guitar speaker. A tweeter is added to provide high frequencies for typical guitar speaker IRs and acoustic guitar tones. If you use these for vocal monitoring, keyboards, or bass, you might be disappointed compared to reasonably good PA speakers. But for electric guitar, they might be just what you need.

 

The difference between ASM 10s and Powercab Plus is the ability to set Powercab plus to Flat/LF Raw or Speaker mode/Natural to just use the woofer without the tweeter as a traditional 1x12 cabinet. I don't know if the ASM 10 can do that. Powercab Plus also has a level control on the tweeter so you can flexibly control the FRFR high end, something that modeling amps tend to struggle with. 

 

Powercab plus can also provide different speaker models by applying specific EQ processing on top of Flat/LF Flat mode. 

 

But Powercab plus and Helix are just getting started. The integration between Variax, Helix and Powercab covers the whole signal chain. To me, this is hard to beat. Sure there are things that might sound better if you optimize each one. A vintage Les Paul will sound better than the Variax Lister model, a vintage tube amp will sound better than Helix, a 1x12 with a Celestion G12-65 will sound better than Powercab Cream - at least for the one thing they all do best. But the combination in an integrated system has the advantage of simplicity, flexibility, ease of use, broad tone range and reliability that might be a lot more meaningful than subtle tone differences that are totally lost in the mix in in most live gigging situations.

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Suprised you didn't like the ASM-12's- I love mine. I have a pair of ASM-12's and like one of the reviews I read, they are suited more for the 4-12cabinet guys versus the ASM-10's. The ASM-10 should be a little brighter and more "mid-rangey" as was also said in the reviews because of the 10" speaker involved. That just makes sense. I think both cabinets (PowerCab or ASM-10) would suit you well. One other thing- if Line 6 really does "FIX" the midi control part of L6-Link, and the PowerCab plus uses that, it could be another reason to keep everything Line-6. That said, I just love the tones out of my ASM-12's for both Helix and my Kemper, and they also have very nice reviews as well. As always, YMMV. Good luck with your search for the holy grail of tone and let us all know if you find it! ; )

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34 minutes ago, spikey said:

One other thing- if Line 6 really does "FIX" the midi control part of L6-Link, and the PowerCab plus uses that, it could be another reason to keep everything Line-6.

 

It's gonna arrive in the next update. The powercab command will be integrated in the helix's output block as it's done for variax in the input block.

The plus of the PC is that the inside speaker models deliver the sound of the speaker alone (without mic'd)....

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11 hours ago, spikey said:

Suprised you didn't like the ASM-12's- I love mine. I have a pair of ASM-12's and like one of the reviews I read, they are suited more for the 4-12cabinet guys versus the ASM-10's. The ASM-10 should be a little brighter and more "mid-rangey" as was also said in the reviews because of the 10" speaker involved. That just makes sense. I think both cabinets (PowerCab or ASM-10) would suit you well. One other thing- if Line 6 really does "FIX" the midi control part of L6-Link, and the PowerCab plus uses that, it could be another reason to keep everything Line-6. That said, I just love the tones out of my ASM-12's for both Helix and my Kemper, and they also have very nice reviews as well. As always, YMMV. Good luck with your search for the holy grail of tone and let us all know if you find it! ; )

I DO like the 12's a lot,  but the 10s were just sooo much more defined (which i know is not always important to everyone) and crisp sounding, and they just seemed perfect. Its possible that there may have been other factors at play. The room for one. If i were playing live a lot maybe the 12's would be a good choice? Maybe the 10s work better in a studio environment? Not sure.

 

On 2/4/2019 at 6:20 PM, amsdenj said:

Powercab and the ASM 10's are both FRFR, but  a different kind of FRFR. They're both optimized for electric guitar by having the woofer being essentially a coaxial guitar speaker. A tweeter is added to provide high frequencies for typical guitar speaker IRs and acoustic guitar tones. If you use these for vocal monitoring, keyboards, or bass, you might be disappointed compared to reasonably good PA speakers. But for electric guitar, they might be just what you need.

 

The difference between ASM 10s and Powercab Plus is the ability to set Powercab plus to Flat/LF Raw or Speaker mode/Natural to just use the woofer without the tweeter as a traditional 1x12 cabinet. I don't know if the ASM 10 can do that. Powercab Plus also has a level control on the tweeter so you can flexibly control the FRFR high end, something that modeling amps tend to struggle with. 

 

Powercab plus can also provide different speaker models by applying specific EQ processing on top of Flat/LF Flat mode. 

 

But Powercab plus and Helix are just getting started. The integration between Variax, Helix and Powercab covers the whole signal chain. To me, this is hard to beat. Sure there are things that might sound better if you optimize each one. A vintage Les Paul will sound better than the Variax Lister model, a vintage tube amp will sound better than Helix, a 1x12 with a Celestion G12-65 will sound better than Powercab Cream - at least for the one thing they all do best. But the combination in an integrated system has the advantage of simplicity, flexibility, ease of use, broad tone range and reliability that might be a lot more meaningful than subtle tone differences that are totally lost in the mix in in most live gigging situations.

You sure make some great points man. Steve too.  After hearing the ASM 10s compared to the 12s im prob just a little afraid of the 12 inch speaker. But youre right, it seems kind of crazy to pass up on all that PC plus has to offer.

 

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The things I’ve struggled with the most with Helix is controlling the high end out of cab and IR models, and controlling the woffie bass with PA speakers as a backline on the floor and in a corner - where I usually get put for gigs. In the studio its entirely different. Good studio monitors (I use Yamaha HS8s), and Helix effects in front of S-Gear is to die for. Live gigging is more challenging. I haven’t used Powercab live yet (next gig is 15 Feb), but I’m hoping it will naturally tame both the low end boom and the high-end ice-pick simply because its an “enhanced” guitar speaker, not a PA speaker used for guitar.

 

I’m going to start using Powercab the same way I used a par of JBL EON610s in the past - in FRFR mode. I still think Powercab provides a more natural guitar tone in compared to PA speakers. But I haven’t been able to try it live yet. 

 

I use IEMs or high-end ear plugs during gigs to protect my ears. So I’m a bit challenged to really know what that Powercab is doing. Here’s hoping its going to tame those lows and highs a bit for a more warm, inviting guitar tone.

 

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Powercab also has the LF Raw mode with the HF driver off and no EQ.  Its basically like running a traditional guitar cab with a good transparent solid state amp.

 

I have two Powercabs and love LF Raw mode.  They are surprisingly good traditional guitar speakers as well as FRFR.  I actually like them better than my Mesa Recto 212 V30 cab + SS amp with Helix.

 

Just another versatility option you get with the Powercabs.

 

Never tried the ASM's though.  

 

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The gig on Feb 15 with Powercab Plus when very well. As usual, I was stuck in a corner, Powercab on the floor, and the PA sub is partially in front of my amp. So I expect a little too much low end, and account for that with low cuts. I used Powercab in FRFR mode and my usual Helix patch with an IR. It was great. I did have a bit of a problem getting loud enough, but that's not unusual for me - I always try to do my part to keep the tempo and volume down for live gigs. I also use IEMs to protect my ears. So I didn't really get to hear the Powercab. But audience feedback was good and I'm sold on Powercab. Next gig I'll push it a little harder. But I don't want to us a stand or anything that would expose me to too much backline volume. My ears just won't take it.

 

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Guys would the plus play nicely with helix native presets ?

 

what I am getting at is I plugged in my rig kontrol 3 sound out to an amp but the native presets sounded odd not a pure good sounding preset like it sounds in my headphones

 

Would this give me that sound I hear in my daw thru my headphones - basically can I use a helix preset in pc and have it sound great thru this cab ? and store it without having my pc after its stored if it can do that - pretty interesting if so

 

Go easy I 'm a drummer so all of this is stuff is overwhelming :) thanks much 

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Dunno about the PC+ with Native rsvette, but they sound great with Helix rack!

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Thanks much Spikey - forgot to mention I have studio surround setup and they didnt sound right either

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Hey guys, I'm running a Friedman ASM12 with my helix.

Did any of you find it lacking power? It;s seriously silent in our rehearsal room and even more so in a band mix it. It just shimmers. I literally had to add +4db on all my presets. 
That's with the ASM on 8 and going pretty hot with the limit red light blinking like mad.. 

Maybe it's just me trying to replicate a full blown 4x12 and i should get this idea out of my head that a small monitor could replace a directional cab with 4 speakers? 


The helix is using xlr (line) with amp model on 8.8 channel volume, (toggle volume control disabled for xlr so it's maxed out), regular ownhammer IRs with -18dB, nothing in the EQ that would cut this down. 

Are any of you using the helix in a sense that your other band mates can hear you or is it just for your own personal monitoring? thx

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