Sound Question

[joseroys]

Hi there.  Spending more time with my Helix and getting further with it.

 

I was reading about and trying to fully understand the usb and direct recording features.  I came across this video and it shows one of the problems i have with the unit in regards to how it sounds.  

 

Is it me or is the sound in this video harsh or would you call this good tone>?  Its similar to what i deal with that it sometimes sounds a bit harsh.  Yes, the amp cabs and options of mic and hi cut have come a long way but i still run into this often where it sounds like this.  Almost like running direct into a console and distorting the preamp or something.  Just kinda cold and lifeless.

 

Please don't kill me asking this lol.  But does this sound good to you guys?  Anyone feel the tone is harsh in this video?

Thanks!

 

edit. fixed link

 

https://youtu.be/1or7E9h7mEo

[Kilrahi]

That's a broken link. It DID seem lifeless, but I didn't see any sign the Helix was involved.

[datacommando]

7 hours ago, joseroys said:

 

Please don't kill me asking this lol.  But does this sound good to you guys?  Anyone feel the tone is harsh in this video?

Thanks!

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1or7E9h7mEo

 

 

Oops! No way to check - Broken link. 

[joseroys]

19 hours ago, Kilrahi said:

That's a broken link. It DID seem lifeless, but I didn't see any sign the Helix was involved.

Here it is ;)

 

https://youtu.be/1or7E9h7mEo

[joseroys]

12 hours ago, datacommando said:

 

Oops! No way to check - Broken link. 

Here ya go. Thanks 

 

 

 

[Kilrahi]

You already engaged in a thread including this link a year ago. What more are you hoping to learn?

[Kilrahi]

Here is the original thread with that link posted and analyzed by you. The bigger question is why, if this clip that bothered you enough to RETURN your Helix before, and STILL bothers you enough to ask now ... why you spent $1,000 again.

 

 

[joseroys]

3 hours ago, Kilrahi said:

Here is the original thread with that link posted and analyzed by you. The bigger question is why, if this clip that bothered you enough to RETURN your Helix before, and STILL bothers you enough to ask now ... why you spent $1,000 again.

 

 

 

Thats so funny. Didn’t realize that was the same video. Lol. 

 

Well....  I need something to use when I can use my amps. I have an XT live and an HD live and they don’t do it for me. 

 

Honestly theres a lot I like about the helix (other than defensive fanboy stuff). The main reason I chose the helix is the routing flexibility. I like capturing ideas live without a computer and I also like to play solo, live, with a simple setup. The ability to run my mic, keyboard and guitar with separate processing paths with one unit was what sold me (and I’m not waiting any longer for a kemper 2 which is sorely needed as I’m not buying a 7 year old computer for 3k)

 

But. 

 

The flexible routing did it for me. That’s the main thing really. The sounds are much better than the HD, But I still often run into frustration with some sound issues. Where it just sounds harsh and sterile.  Apparently this is not the case and I’m doing my best to avoid these snags as I work. 

 

So as I was searching on more in depth info about the multitrack recording via usb (since I found the manual quite lacking) I ran into this video. I had seriously completely forgotten I had used this example before. Swear. 

 

Either way. It obviously caught my attention (again) and  I was just curious if this tone is good. If it’s acceptable. 

 

I hope this is ok and didn’t offend you. It obviously bothers you but I’m just trying to get help. This feels like I’m talking about basic common sense policy issues in a Donald Trump think tank. Like I can’t say anything that doesn’t coincide wjth the narrative they’re pushing. 

 

I like the Helix ok. Is it perfect soundeize?  No, it’s not. Is the kemper? No, it’s software and profile manager suck (although, it seriously sounds really really good). The helix still wins in a lot of ways. The Ax8 sounds awesome too but lacks in many areas as well. Honestly, the Helix is last in sound but first if functionality which is what I want. 

 

Good enough?  

 

Cool. Now. How does the sound strike you on this video?  

[Kilrahi]

Honestly this forum has already had one of what you're trying to bring today (see below). It's exhausting and I don't think anyone is in the mood.

 

Come back in six months. 

 

 

[joseroys]

29 minutes ago, Kilrahi said:

Honestly this forum has already had one of what you're trying to bring today (see below). It's exhausting and I don't think anyone is in the mood.

 

Come back in six months. 

 

 

 

i just wanted to hear what people thought of that tone because I thought it sounded bad and wanted to hear any thoughts about how to avoid that since I struggle with it. If everyone said it sounded awesome, I would learn something from it. 

 

It’s really kinda lame. I think it’s  so cool that people get on here and help but it’s kind of sad how hurt people get. I don’t see thaaaat many people posting “controversial” stuff. Maybe I’m not looking enough. 

 

Honestly, that post just made me want to look more into the axfx3. Lol. I’m even regretting falling for the line6 thing again. Kinda feel a little regret about getting it again. 

 

What a downer. Hahaha

 

i just want to play and record guitar without latency...  and maybe get inspired by the sounds I hear. That’s it man. 

[joseroys]

36 minutes ago, Kilrahi said:

Honestly this forum has already had one of what you're trying to bring today (see below). It's exhausting and I don't think anyone is in the mood.

 

Come back in six months. 

 

 

 

 

Dude. Kilrahi. I just finished the rest of that thread. Do you even own a helix?  Just read your final quote in that thread (posted below). I sure hope you do man. 

 

“BUT The cost of the Helix, especially with the LT as an option, was FAR less, and its routing power seemed far and away more advanced. To me the choice was no contest.  So I decided when I had enough money I'd buy one. 

 

Then the HX Stomp came out right around the time I was halfway saved up - and well - I pulled the switch and haven't looked back. ”

[Kilrahi]

What about that thread was confusing? It answers your question right within it. 

[joseroys]

Yeah. It sounds like you bought the hx stomp and not the helix. If so, maybe don’t get involved unless you have something valuable to add?  

 

I think other guy was not actually looking for help and feedback like I am. Didn’t even sound like he owned one. 

 

 

[gunpointmetal]

The helix only sounds cold and lifeless if you set it up that way. Recording it sounds like a mic'ed cabinet in another room coming back to you through studio monitors. Demo videos on YouTube are all but useless for deciding how well something will fit your own personal needs, so I can't really speak to that, but I will say that not every tool works the same for everyone and sometimes concessions need to be made (complicating a solo rig with a mixer and using a Kemper or other modeler that sounds "right") if some part of the setup isn't doing it for you. 

[codamedia]

12 hours ago, joseroys said:

i just wanted to hear what people thought of that tone because I thought it sounded bad and wanted to hear any thoughts about how to avoid that since I struggle with it.

 

For the record, in your OP you do NOT ask for any help on how to overcome this, you just look for confirmation on how you feel about the tone. 

 

Since you are struggling with this problem, I'd suggest you check out the Jason Sadites videos on you tube, in particular this one...

"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2oSUj8oK6Pg

 

Another option is to try some IR's... although that can be overwhelming if you don't have a lot of experience with cabs/speakers/mics/positions. 

 

 

41 minutes ago, joseroys said:

Yeah. It sounds like you bought the hx stomp and not the helix. If so, maybe don’t get involved unless you have something valuable to add?  

 

Are you suggesting the HX Stomp sounds different than the Helix? It's just a smaller version, the amps and effects are the same. The entire HX product line (Helix Floor, Helix Rack, Helix LT, HX Stomp, Helix Native) all share the same amps and effects. When talking about tone, a stomp owner has every right to voice his opinion.

 

[joseroys]

30 minutes ago, codamedia said:

 

For the record, in your OP you do NOT ask for any help on how to overcome this, you just look for confirmation on how you feel about the tone. 

 

Since you are struggling with this problem, I'd suggest you check out the Jason Sadites videos on you tube, in particular this one...

"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2oSUj8oK6Pg

 

Another option is to try some IR's... although that can be overwhelming if you don't have a lot of experience with cabs/speakers/mics/positions. 

 

 

 

Are you suggesting the HX Stomp sounds different than the Helix? It's just a smaller version, the amps and effects are the same. The entire HX product line (Helix Floor, Helix Rack, Helix LT, HX Stomp, Helix Native) all share the same amps and effects. When talking about tone, a stomp owner has every right to voice his opinion.

 

 

Ok. I thought the effects just had fx and didn’t realize it had amps as well. 

 

The saddites helped the most. The idea for me is get an amp and a cab, fine tune high end and mic placement and it should sound ok. Some of the amps sound like the video I attached which is what I’m trying to avoid. I should have made it clearer I suppose. 

 

Maybe ill I’ll have to use my IRs. Didn’t want to mess with that rabbit hole. I’m a sound engineer (decade) as well as musician (lifetime) so I’m familiar with micing amps. But never sound plastic like the video I mentioned. That’s why I wondered if this is considered good time. 

 

Thanks foe for your help 

[joseroys]

1 hour ago, gunpointmetal said:

The helix only sounds cold and lifeless if you set it up that way. Recording it sounds like a mic'ed cabinet in another room coming back to you through studio monitors. Demo videos on YouTube are all but useless for deciding how well something will fit your own personal needs, so I can't really speak to that, but I will say that not every tool works the same for everyone and sometimes concessions need to be made (complicating a solo rig with a mixer and using a Kemper or other modeler that sounds "right") if some part of the setup isn't doing it for you. 

 

I mean, I wouldn’t say those videos are useless or people wouldn’t make and watch them. They’re not perfect but to say they’re useless is questionable. 

 

I realize the amp in a room thing. When in a studio, you’re recording on headphones with cab in another room. Still sounds good and dimensional with a raw amp. 

 

Kemper sounds much better with just a raw amp without tweaking. But there are lots of things I prefer on the line 6. 

 

I do wish I could set up default setting for things like filters instead of having to tweak basic settings (like low pass) every time I pull up a cab. 

 

 

[codamedia]

11 minutes ago, joseroys said:

Ok. I thought the effects just had fx and didn’t realize it had amps as well. 

 

HX Effects is just effects, but it is a different product than the HX stomp.

 

1 hour ago, joseroys said:

Yeah. It sounds like you bought the hx stomp and not the helix. If so, maybe don’t get involved unless you have something valuable to add?  

 

Even you said it was an HX Stomp that was in question... I'm not sure why/how HX Effects has been entered into evidence :)

[gunpointmetal]

Useless probably isn't quite accurate, but knowing how something is going to work for you versus how it works for someone making a video is not really all that accurate, IME. I really enjoyed the Kemper on the few occasions I've had to use one, but I didn't like that I needed to find another profile if I wanted to do anything even remotely drastic with gain or tone settings. I prefer the control available on devices like Helix and AFX, but I don't like AFX editing (or price tag, or foot pedals, or waiting lists, lol). I think the cabs are the biggest issues with the Helix, because you can only move the microphone forward or back, instead of up or down the cone from center like most people would. With stock cabs I've had the best luck using two cabs and having one with a bright dynamic mic up close and a darker condenser or ribbon mic moved way back with lots of room reflections, then blending them till its fills out the way I want. It's good for playing alone, but most of the "room" mic sound gets EQ'd away when I'm trying to fit a band mix. I personally prefer to use IRs for the cabs and get a lot closer to what I'm expecting just dropping in an IR of a V30 cab with an SM57 mic about an inch and a half up the cone from the dust cap. 

[codamedia]

1 hour ago, joseroys said:

I do wish I could set up default setting for things like filters instead of having to tweak basic settings (like low pass) every time I pull up a cab. 

 

TIP: Insert an EQ block (one with filters) after the amp/cab/ir and set your LPF and HPF there. Now, change you cab block or IR all you want and your default filters are still in place.

[gunpointmetal]

8 minutes ago, codamedia said:

 

TIP: Insert an EQ block (one with filters) after the amp/cab/ir and set your LPF and HPF there. Now, change you cab block or IR all you want and your default filters are still in place.

I also built several "starter" patches that have an EQ set-up that way with my prefered gate settings, and routing set-up so I can just copy them over and change amp models and FX. Makes life easier.

[joseroys]

Cool. Thanks guys. 

 

I was was just surprised how it sounded in that video because that’s the sound I don’t like about the helix. Big turn off. And dude is obviously a good player and demo guy. 

I was just curious if people considered that good tone. 

 

Ill try some more tricks. I’m guessing I’ll need to load up my IRs and see if that takes it up to the next level. Fingers crossed. 

 

Im looking forward to more improvements to this box. New cabinets with better IRS would be a good step.