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MarkJarvis

Helix vs AXFX 3, seriously...

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Hi All

Not trying to start trouble...I have been a very long time Line 6 user (POD 500 and Helix owner) but just listening to the 'stock' Fractal AXFX 3 sounds (263 amps) this thing kills...I just dont think there is any real comparison..maybe Line 6 can update Helix..and maybe its just me but damm I dont get that feeling listeing to the stock patches of helix or third party or my custom presets..

 

What do you guys thinK?

DEMO of Fractal AXFX 3 presets

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MEPZIQ6Yqzk

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2 minutes ago, MarkJarvis said:

Hi All

Not trying to start trouble...I have been a very long time Line 6 user (POD 500 and Helix owner) but just listening to the 'stock' Fractal AXFX 3 sounds (263 amps) this thing kills...I just dont think there is any real comparison..maybe Line 6 can update Helix..and maybe its just me but damm I dont get that feeling listeing to the stock patches of helix or third party or my custom presets..

 

What do you guys thinK?

DEMO of Fractal AXFX 3 presets

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MEPZIQ6Yqzk

 

I think I didn't like it as much so I didn't buy it. 

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I honestly don't here that big a difference... I've heard plenty of A/B comparisons before. I'm not going to sit and listen to 263 clips of anything, though.

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No offense but if you cant here the difference..your likely fine with Helix..for me its night and day..

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2 minutes ago, MarkJarvis said:

No offense but if you cant here the difference..your likely fine with Helix..for me its night and day..

 

The thing is that comparing the stock presets or even default amp/cab settings of each device doesn't mean much. They might be models of the same amp model number, but they're not models of the same amp. They're not using the same IRs, the same mics, etc. In order to do a true A/B test, you need to start by comparing like for like... So, really, you'd at least want to use the same IR with the comparable amp models.

 

In any case, if the Axe FX III inspires you more, get that. I have no desire to convince anyone what they should and shouldn't like. Guitar tone isn't a competition. These are all tools. Use what inspires you most.

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11 minutes ago, MarkJarvis said:

No offense but if you cant here the difference..your likely fine with Helix..for me its night and day..

 

21 minutes ago, MarkJarvis said:

Listening to that video demo, Helix doesnt sound anywhere close 

 

Cool story bro. Sounds like you know what you should buy for yourself. 

 

Just curious, but do you like Hawaiian pizza?

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Kilrahi Just curious, but do you like Hawaiian pizza?  If your asking do I like crappy sound? no

If I was betting, I would bet you would not post anything you have done on helix...

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So buy a AFX III. I haven't heard anything that would convince me that its worth the extra $1600 dollars (at least, if you want the official foot controller and an expression pedal, since for some reason the foot controller doesn't have one). 

If gear inspires you, use it. 

Pointless thread is pointless.

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Oh goody... another "if you can't hear the difference then there's something wrong with your ears" thread. It's been a while. I bet this one finally declares one subjective opinion to be "right", because as well all know, if something is said emphatically enough, it just "becomes" truth... lmao

 

 

And we're off! 

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1 minute ago, MarkJarvis said:

Kilrahi Just curious, but do you like Hawaiian pizza?  If your asking do I like crappy sound? no

If I was betting, I would bet you would not post anything you have done on helix...

 

Ah, but you see, you leapt to a conclusion with me. I DO LIKE HAWAIIAN PIZZA.  Adore it even. 

 

Subjectivity is such a funny thing. 

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Seriously..I think that as a Helix owner you really 'want' it to be ok...and there is good reason for that. But that said, if you dont here a difference you really should not buy an AXFX 3..just sayin..

 

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Ok.

Pointless thread is pointless.

I hear the people over at the Gear Page like to debate for no reason.

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cruisinon2 - I know you have been around for awhile, can you post something you have done with helix that sounds good to your ears?

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Just now, MarkJarvis said:

Seriously..I think that as a Helix owner you really 'want' it to be ok...and there is good reason for that. But that said, if you dont here a difference you really should not buy an AXFX 3..just sayin..

 

 

People wanting to be superior have existed since the days of time.  However, logic is more powerful than human emotion - even if we choose to ignore it most of the time.

 

Who sounded better? Prince or Michael Jackson? Beethoven or Bach? Is sirloin better than T-Bone? 

 

Time and time again under A/B testing corksniffers show that the only thing they really were were elitists in their own minds.  

 

Is it possible that Axe FX III is legitimately closer to the amps they're modelling?  Sure it's possible. 

 

Is the sound they're mimicking BETTER than the sound Helix is mimicking . . . sorry, but once again you're just arguing subjectivity.  There is no truth to be had there. 

 

 

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I can dial in just about ANY modeler to sound like what I want it to. If they would have updated the cabs in the HD500X, I'd still be rocking that, but I wanted to get all my IRs and tones in one box. I also like having digital gear that I can walk into GC and replace. There are lots of reasons to buy an AFX III, just like there are lots of reasons to buy a Helix. If you really want THE BEST digital amp tones, you buy a Kemper (and then hope someone made a profile that's pretty close to what you already want, because even that device has a variety of shortcomings.)

 

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5 minutes ago, gunpointmetal said:

Ok.

Pointless thread is pointless.

I hear the people over at the Gear Page like to debate for no reason.

 

In retrospect, I should have stopped reading after "I don't want to start trouble, but..."

 

 

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1 minute ago, MarkJarvis said:

Kilrahi ..still waiting to hear something you have done on helix..anything

 

Logic is logic my friend.  You're just wanting to set me up for a game where I post something and no matter how hard I work on it you say, "I hate that."

 

I didn't fall for those games in 3rd grade when a friend of mine preferred Caddyshack to Ghostbusters, and I'm not dumb enough to fall for it now.

 

Find someone else to hurt on the teeter totter. 

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4 minutes ago, MarkJarvis said:

Seriously..I think that as a Helix owner you really 'want' it to be ok...and there is good reason for that. But that said, if you dont here a difference you really should not buy an AXFX 3..just sayin..

  

 

Well, that's good because I have no plans on buying an Axe FX III... :-) I actually think the confirmation bias goes the other way, too, though. The Axe FX III is billed as a premium product, so it has to be better, right? How many could pick out clips from each device if they weren't labeled accordingly?

 

Seriously, I have briefly considered selling some other stuff I have and picking up an Axe FX III, but I simply wouldn't use it enough. I wouldn't gig with it because I don't really want to go down the road of having a rack-based rig, and, well, I'm perfectly fine gigging with my HX Effects board and an amp or my Helix board alone. If I owned a studio, I would probably have an Axe FX III, a Kemper, and a Helix Rack and find uses for them all... Although, I have to say that I think sometimes we suffer from having too many options in front of us. Purposely limiting your options is sometimes a necessary step for being creative.

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What is the purpose of the thread? Do you own a Helix? Do you own an AFXIII? The only way to ACTUALLY know which one you prefer is to use them. 

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47 minutes ago, MarkJarvis said:

No i am just asking for those who say helix is great to post a clip so i can hear it...

 

 

You do understand that demanding "proof" of something that (by definition) cannot be quantified, or otherwise measured in any definitive/ objective way, is like to trying to pick up a turd by the clean end, right? Never mind... don't answer that, we've all wasted enough time already. You'll "win" the argument by default, because what you're demanding cannot be done. It's a half-clever (yet thoroughly obnoxious) means of seeking external validation for an already fully-formed opinion. And while it makes for some festive arguments, in the end it achieves nothing and helps no one. Your Congressman would be proud.... 

 

But what the hell, I'll bite....I posted the same clips a while back in a previous iteration of this retarded discussion. So as long as we're all intent on taking yet another ride on the stupidmobile, here ya go: 

 

Listen to This Really Needs A Title by cruisinon2 #np on #SoundCloud
https://soundcloud.com/user-100603322/this-really-needs-a-title

 

 

Listen to Here Goes Nuthin' by cruisinon2 #np on #SoundCloud
https://soundcloud.com/user-100603322/here-goes-nuthin-final-edit

 

Love it, hate it... either way, it's no skin off my a$$.

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8 minutes ago, MarkJarvis said:

No i am just asking for those who say helix is great to post a clip so i can hear it...

 

 

I have posted tons of Helix clips here, on The Gear Page and in the Facebook group.

 

Every clip in this playlist was done with the Helix (or Helix Native).

 And that's not even all of them.

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1 hour ago, MarkJarvis said:

Hi All

Not trying to start trouble...

 

Then don't.  

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I just read something that I think really applies. I believe that modelling has reached a level where it really is near impossible to say empirically that one modeller is better than another. It's now kind of where amp choice has been. Some people think Marshals are the best. Some the AC30. Some Fender. None of them are better than the other. It's now more about what you like. Some people, overall, like the way one modeller over the others. Some like some of the amps one modeller does, but also like how another modeller does other amps. It's all over the place. It is to the point where you really do have to try it out for yourself. Lots of people like the way the Amplifire6 does Marshals. Others Helix. Others say ya gotta use this or that IR for it to really pop.  Just get a device from a store with a 30 day, no questions asked, return policy. If you can. Other wise, I could tell you that this one sounds better than that one. Just like I could tell you a Marshal sounds better than an AC30. As we all know, that doesn't mean that would be true for you.

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28 minutes ago, brue58ski said:

I just read something that I think really applies. I believe that modelling has reached a level where it really is near impossible to say empirically that one modeller is better than another. It's now kind of where amp choice has been. Some people think Marshals are the best. Some the AC30. Some Fender. None of them are better than the other. It's now more about what you like. Some people, overall, like the way one modeller over the others. Some like some of the amps one modeller does, but also like how another modeller does other amps. It's all over the place. It is to the point where you really do have to try it out for yourself. Lots of people like the way the Amplifire6 does Marshals. Others Helix. Others say ya gotta use this or that IR for it to really pop.  Just get a device from a store with a 30 day, no questions asked, return policy. If you can. Other wise, I could tell you that this one sounds better than that one. Just like I could tell you a Marshal sounds better than an AC30. As we all know, that doesn't mean that would be true for you.

This is where my head is at honestly.  I just don't have the money to have AxeFX, and HX, and I surely didn't when I was getting my gear. 

 

Its not that I don't think the Axe Fx doesn't sound fantastic, I think it sounds astounding, and sometimes better than Helix, but my line of reasoning went a little different.

When I was getting my gear, I was looking at routing, and ReAmp options as I was at the point where if it sounded better than my 11r I am sold... diminishing returns, and all .

 

At the time it was Helix Rack, and Axe FX 2 XL+.  I did not go Axe for two reasons. (A) Price (for me at the time it was about $1,000 difference) (B) Helix was new, it would be supported for quite some time, and Axe Fx II was getting old, I figured the successor was just around the corner, and I was not wrong. (but I didn't want to wait for Axe 3) 

 

So I invested in Helix Rack, controller, expression.  Then over time with the updates they released this little gem Helix Native.  That integration between the hardware, and that software was a deal sealer for me. As far as I know, there is no competition in this regard, and certainly wasn't at the time. Fractal doesn't have a plugin of their AxeFx suite.

 

I do not regret my choice one bit, even after hearing Axe FX III comparison videos, and preferring the tone over the Helix in the same video at times. Also for two reasons. (A) The people dialing in the tones may be biased to one product, or the other.  (B) They are not me, nor are they dialing in a tone, with my gear, for the song I am creating. 

 

I love the tones I get out of my Helix, and I will only get better at it.  I might be able to get slightly better tones out of the AxeFX III, but I am not paying the toll to find out.  By the time I want to upgrade that particular piece of equipment I am sure that L6 will have a Helix successor ready, and Axe FX III will be getting a bit long in the tooth to upgrade to for me. Who knows, may even be other contenders out there... 

 

Wow, I did not intend to type this much.  Some fine examples, and playing posted above.  You guys are better guitar players than I am in some ways. Very Nice.

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1 hour ago, MarkJarvis said:

I am just asking for those who say helix is great to post a clip so i can hear it...

 

Some great Helix examples posted above... IMO they hold their own in quality. 

Let's go back 3 years to a Pete Thorn Demo of the Helix.... since the Helix is in question why does it have to be one of us? That wasn't your demo of the Axe FX3 you posted was it?

 

 

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21 minutes ago, Lachdanan0121 said:

This is where my head is at honestly.  I just don't have the money to have AxeFX, and HX, and I surely didn't when I was getting my gear. 

 

Its not that I don't think the Axe Fx doesn't sound fantastic, I think it sounds astounding, and sometimes better than Helix, but my line of reasoning went a little different.

When I was getting my gear, I was looking at routing, and ReAmp options as I was at the point where if it sounded better than my 11r I am sold, diminishing returns and all .

 

At the time it was Helix Rack, and Axe FX 2 XL+.  I did not go Axe for two reasons. (A) Price (for me at the time it was about $1,000 difference) (B) Helix was new, it would be supported for quite some time, and Axe Fx II was getting old, I figured the successor was just around the corner, and I was not wrong. (but I didn't want to wait for Axe 3) 

 

So I invested in Helix Rack, controller, expression.  Then over time with the updates they released this little gem Helix Native.  That integration between the hardware, and that software was a deal sealer for me.  Fractal doesn't have a plugin of their AxeFx suite. As far as I know, there is no competition in this regard, and certainly wasn't at the time. 

 

I do not regret my choice one bit, even after hearing Axe FX III comparison videos, and preferring the tone over the Helix in the same video. Also for two reasons. (A) The people dialing in the tones may be biased to one product or the other.  (B) They are not me, nor are they dialing in a tone with my gear, for the song I am creating. 

 

I love the tones I get out of my Helix, and I will only get better at it.  I might be able to get slightly better tones out of the AxeFX III, but I am not paying the toll to find out.  By the time I want to upgrade that particular piece of equipment I am sure that L6 will have a Helix successor ready, and Axe FX III will be getting a bit long in the tooth to upgrade to for me. Who knows, may even be other contenders out there... 

 

Wow, I did not intend to type this much. 

 

Yup. There are a thousand reasons why these discussions are irretrievably pointless. Preferences are exactly that... preferences. They have no intrinsic value, and never will. Which makes arguing over the "best" anything, utterly useless, and determining who's subjective evaluation is "right" impossible to achieve. So you're left with trying (in vain) to convince yourself that what you've already decided, is in fact "correct". 

 

May as well have a steel cage match to determine the world's "best" sandwich meat. I "win" because I like smoked turkey, and your pro-ham argument has failed to convince me. Really? Ugh... it boggles the mind.

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34 minutes ago, cruisinon2 said:

 

 

May as well have a steel cage match to determine the world's "best" sandwich meat. I "win" because I like smoked turkey, and your pro-ham argument has failed to convince me. Really? Ugh... it boggles the mind.

Umm seriously? you don't know?!? I mean isn't it obvious? its bacon. LOL

 

On a serious note, nice lead guitar work in the examples above. 

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As for the original video of the AXFX3, they were good sounds. I will say though, it seemed like he put a lot more effort into the Cliffs of Dover opening track than the others. That one sounded great! The rest sounded about par for the course, and as others have said, there is no better, just preference.

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Hi,

 

for me it was an easy decision:

- 1200Eur vs 2800Eur (+Pedalboard)

- My limits are never set by the equipment (as long as it is not really cheap&lollipop) but my abilities to use it

- I don't rate the sound based on Youtube ... too many tampering factors.

- I use my gear mostly live ... with differing sound guys. That has much more influence on the end result than the last 20% of my gear.

 

So: GO HELIX! :-D

 

Bye

 

Simon

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3 hours ago, MarkJarvis said:

No offense but if you cant here the difference..your likely fine with Helix..for me its night and day..

 

2 hours ago, MarkJarvis said:

Seriously..I think that as a Helix owner you really 'want' it to be ok...and there is good reason for that. But that said, if you dont here a difference you really should not buy an AXFX 3..just sayin..

 

 Mark, youre sounding a little provoking and hopefully thats not your intention. I am a Helix and axe fx 3 owner and i dont "want it to be okay" when it comes to helix. I love helix and they both offer different approaches on how to do similar things. I'm agreeing with some other people here that this thread is sounding mostly pointless but it could have been a cool opportunity to compare and contrast the two units. Both units sound - and most importantly work - great.

 

As a side note those presets in that video for the axe arent stock presets. You have to pay an extra 100$ before tax for them.

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I’m not any kind of a “fan boy”, I’ll happily be wow’d by a piece of gear that is better than what I have, but nothing in that demo wow’d me. It all sounded great, to be sure, but I didn’t hear anything that was in another league from Helix. But, to each their own of course.

 

I will say that the tracks posted by Cruisinon2 and Phil sound mighty fine to me, and that the Pete Thorn demo is what sold me on Helix. I saw that and bought one the next weekend. Have not GAS’d for another modeler at all in the time since...

 

For what it’s worth, I get my hearing tested every year for work and the doc says my ears are just fine. Although my wife occasionally disagrees...

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Actually both on and off topic, installed the bias 2. Straight comparison with only one amp and cab, the bias wins hands down. After a bit of tweaking, low cut, high cut, compressors etc, helix reached it. After more tweaking bias stayed a lot behind. 

 

Point. Helix has potential but need to now how and what to tweak to make it sound good.

 

Bias has a good so7nd from the beginning. But this is it. A good amp, aka a good sound, but remains good. No chances for improvement.

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Just now, arislaf said:

Actually both on and off topic, installed the bias 2. Straight comparison with only one amp and cab, the bias wins hands down. After a bit of tweaking, low cut, high cut, compressors etc, helix reached it. After more tweaking bias stayed a lot behind. 

 

Point. Helix has potential but need to now how and what to tweak to make it sound good.

 

Bias has a good so7nd from the beginning. But this is it. A good amp, aka a good sound, but remains good. No chances for improvement.

 

That's kind of always been my opinion with Line 6.

 

My opinion is they kind of default all of their settings to middle of the road just "okay." Rather than push it in one particular direction (which is only good for specific people loving that sound) they leave it at a midway jumping off point where a user has a huge number of directions that they can go, so that after tweaking a user ends up where they want to be.

 

Now, to be clear I've never heard Line 6 say that. It's possible that if they read this they'd say I'm full of crap.

 

Still, to me Line 6 has always been a tweaker's paradise.  Learn the box, and you WILL get there. In fact, you'll get there better than you ever thought possible.

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Still, to me Line 6 has always been a tweaker's paradise.  Learn the box, and you WILL get there. In fact, you'll get there better than you ever thought possible.

 Well more like a tweaker's nightmare. I have spent alot of time with Helix, got about as good as i think possible ..

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