HX Stomp – New User Questions

[guitarbloke1980]

So I bought Stomp today – it should arrive tomorrow and I’m super stoked to get going with it!  I’ve always been an analogue guy to this is going to be a bit of a crazy adventure for me I think  :D 

 

Anyway, I have some (probably very basic) questions and I’m hoping you can help me.

 

I’m going to be using my real guitar amp onstage and also sending my guitar out to the PA via the HX stomp (mono)

 

My question is this – I’m going to run the HX Stomp out to the front of the guitar amp because I’d like to be able to use some of the HX amp tones.  But my analogue brain is telling me that delay/modulation effects always need to go to my amp’s effects loop otherwise they’ll sound awful.  Obviously if everything is running into the front of the amp then the delays etc will also be going into the front though.

 

How do I ensure that time-based and modulation effects go through my amp’s effects loop? 

 

[Kilrahi]

6 hours ago, guitarbloke1980 said:

How do I ensure that time-based and modulation effects go through my amp’s effects loop? 

 

 

Ehhhh . . . If you want to have BOTH the PA on stage AND the real amp on Stage AND have your time based effects ... you might be finally banging up against some IO and DSP limitations. It kind of depends on how complex you want to get. 

 

Generally speaking if you want to do a PA/Amp setup then you do the main left/right outs to the PA, and the FX send on the Stomp to your amp. You keep your onstage amp as more of a monitor so it doesn't have all the complex effects the PA is getting. 

 

You could create two paths, one for the PA and one for the amp, but you're going to run into serious block issues though. Getting too complex is the kind of thing you typically want the Helix for. 

[guitarbloke1980]

3 hours ago, Kilrahi said:

 

Ehhhh . . . If you want to have BOTH the PA on stage AND the real amp on Stage AND have your time based effects ... you might be finally banging up against some IO and DSP limitations. It kind of depends on how complex you want to get. 

 

Generally speaking if you want to do a PA/Amp setup then you do the main left/right outs to the PA, and the FX send on the Stomp to your amp. You keep your onstage amp as more of a monitor so it doesn't have all the complex effects the PA is getting. 

 

You could create two paths, one for the PA and one for the amp, but you're going to run into serious block issues though. Getting too complex is the kind of thing you typically want the Helix for. 

 

Thanks for that!

 

I can only run a mono signal to the PA as we're pretty much maxed on channels,  so I'll just be taking one of the main outs to the desk. 

 

Do you think if I run the FX Send from the Stomp to the front of my amp, the time-based effects will sound bad because they aren't in the amp effects loop?

[Kilrahi]

46 minutes ago, guitarbloke1980 said:

 

Do you think if I run the FX Send from the Stomp to the front of my amp, the time-based effects will sound bad because they aren't in the amp effects loop?

 

Well . . .  most times yes, but there are exceptions to everything. It will sound just like if you did that with a regular amp. 

 

I can say this, many players find (and this includes me) that if you make your amp as clean as possible then it can actually work pretty well (it almost simulates a flat response speaker). The trick, of course, is that you have to like the HX Stomp distortion settings (which I do). 

[guitarbloke1980]

2 hours ago, Kilrahi said:

 

Well . . .  most times yes, but there are exceptions to everything. It will sound just like if you did that with a regular amp. 

 

I can say this, many players find (and this includes me) that if you make your amp as clean as possible then it can actually work pretty well (it almost simulates a flat response speaker). The trick, of course, is that you have to like the HX Stomp distortion settings (which I do). 

 

Ah that's good to know!  I am planning on setting the amp very clean and putting an external (strymon) overdrive pedal before the stomp - do you think that would also be fine?  

 

I've played with delay I  the front of the amp in the past and I really wasn't keen.

 

Basically I'd like to have the same sound that's coming from my guitar amp also coming out of FOH. I really hope I can do that with the Stomp - the full fat Helix and the LT are just too big for the stages I play on sadly.

[Kilrahi]

2 hours ago, guitarbloke1980 said:

 

I've played with delay I  the front of the amp in the past and I really wasn't keen.

 

The Stomp takes the Strymon fine, but the hard part remains knowing just how your amp will color things. There are a few things you can try now though to find out:

 

1. Test a delay pedal now in front of the amp with the amp set clean.  If you're not fond of it - you won't be fond of it with the Stomp.

 

2. Does your amp require that you plug in straight to the guitar input? Because if so this might also solve your problems, as you could:

-Bypass the real amps pre-amp (letting the Stomp do this stuff). 

-Create a signal path that includes any pre amp effects, amp, and then post amp effects.

-Split into two signal paths at the very end - one going FOH that includes a cab or IR cab block as its final block. 

-Second path goes into amp effects return and lets the real cab fill in that final gap. 

 

 

[guitarbloke1980]

4 hours ago, Kilrahi said:

 

The Stomp takes the Strymon fine, but the hard part remains knowing just how your amp will color things. There are a few things you can try now though to find out:

 

1. Test a delay pedal now in front of the amp with the amp set clean.  If you're not fond of it - you won't be fond of it with the Stomp.

 

2. Does your amp require that you plug in straight to the guitar input? Because if so this might also solve your problems, as you could:

-Bypass the real amps pre-amp (letting the Stomp do this stuff). 

-Create a signal path that includes any pre amp effects, amp, and then post amp effects.

-Split into two signal paths at the very end - one going FOH that includes a cab or IR cab block as its final block. 

-Second path goes into amp effects return and lets the real cab fill in that final gap. 

 

 

Thanks Kilrahi, that's a few things I'll definitely try when it arrives today!

 

I had a thought though - if I'm sending the signal to the real amp,  AND to the FOH, should I set the Stomp to Line level or instrument level?  The signal going to the mixer will need Line level I guess, but my amp will want instrument level?

 

I usually plug into the front of my amp but I guess I could plug into the FX loop and bypass the preamp that way?  It's a nice amp (Suhr Badger 35), but as you say,  I have no idea how much colouring of the sound it'll do.

 

Is what I'm proposing to do a bit unusual then?  I assumed that having the signal going to the backline and to FOH would have been fairly normal?

[SteveFrance]

5 hours ago, Kilrahi said:

2. Does your amp require that you plug in straight to the guitar input? Because if so this might also solve your problems, as you could:

-Bypass the real amps pre-amp (letting the Stomp do this stuff). 

-Create a signal path that includes any pre amp effects, amp, and then post amp effects.

-Split into two signal paths at the very end - one going FOH that includes a cab or IR cab block as its final block. 

-Second path goes into amp effects return and lets the real cab fill in that final gap. 

 

 

 

In this case, you've got a path that have the preamp (HX) - The power amp from the Suhr and the the Suhr's cab. On the other one you've got the HX preamp and a cab, isn't there something missing (a power amp) ?

The best way would be to have real parrallel path with different configuration (i think the stomp can't do so), and the stomp is so limited in term of blocks that you won't be able to create complex things. 

You should only create simple patches to go direct to FOH (and work with an active FRFR speaker) or use the stomp like a pedal board and mic'd your amp (or buy a HX LT)

[guitarbloke1980]

48 minutes ago, SteveFrance said:

 

In this case, you've got a path that have the preamp (HX) - The power amp from the Suhr and the the Suhr's cab. On the other one you've got the HX preamp and a cab, isn't there something missing (a power amp) ?

The best way would be to have real parrallel path with different configuration (i think the stomp can't do so), and the stomp is so limited in term of blocks that you won't be able to create complex things. 

You should only create simple patches to go direct to FOH (and work with an active FRFR speaker) or use the stomp like a pedal board and mic'd your amp (or buy a HX LT)

 

Thanks Steve, we PA speakers are active, but I don't think they are true FRFR, they are just cheap Behringer ones (B112D)

 

Aaah crap, it sounds like the Stomp isn't going to be for me then.  All I wanted is for the sound to come out of the amp and from the PA, I didn't realise that would be such an issue.

 

It's being delivered this afternoon but I guess I'll be sending it right back :( 

 

[Kilrahi]

6 hours ago, SteveFrance said:

 

In this case, you've got a path that have the preamp (HX) - The power amp from the Suhr and the the Suhr's cab. On the other one you've got the HX preamp and a cab, isn't there something missing (a power amp) ?

The best way would be to have real parrallel path with different configuration (i think the stomp can't do so), and the stomp is so limited in term of blocks that you won't be able to create complex things. 

You should only create simple patches to go direct to FOH (and work with an active FRFR speaker) or use the stomp like a pedal board and mic'd your amp (or buy a HX LT)

 

No, in my suggested setup nothing is missing, and the Stomp CAN do parallel paths - the trick is the block limit. So the idea is to share as many blocks as possible before you split. 

 

It would look like this:

 

Main path:

 

1. Pre amp effect block >>>> Amp effects block (no cab) >>>> Post amp effects block >>>>Signal Split

    Path A to FOH: IR or Cab block of choice

    Path B from FX Send to real Amp FX Return: Dummy block (Since the Stomp . . . maddeningly . . .. can't have a path B without a block of some type - hopefully it gets changed sometime as this would save you a whole block to use for something else). 

 

The above is six blocks. It might work for what the original poster intends. I would at least give it a test run. No matter how you toss it though, if you must have the real amp have the same sound as the front of house PA you are definitely taxing the Stomp to the max. The limitation isn't the routing, it's the Stomp's 6 block limit. 

[SteveFrance]

Iv'e understood the opposite but the Helix amp effects blocks mean a preamp + the poweramp.

In this chain it means you have a preamp block + an amp block (preamp + poweramp) + the effetcs go into the poweramp of the valve amp....Thta's like having two serial amps (no exactly in fact)...

 

[Kilrahi]

5 hours ago, SteveFrance said:

Iv'e understood the opposite but the Helix amp effects blocks mean a preamp + the poweramp.

In this chain it means you have a preamp block + an amp block (preamp + poweramp) + the effetcs go into the poweramp of the valve amp....Thta's like having two serial amps (no exactly in fact)...

 

 

Okay I think we're just having a communication problem here.  When I say "pre amp effects block" I should be more specific. I am referring to things like overdrive pedals and compressors, BUT more specifically I was trying to say "whatever effects you want BEFORE (using "pre" instead of before, but I get your confusion because there is a block called "preamp") your amp."

[guitarbloke1980]

Ok, well, as an old analogue guy, most of your above responses to my question have confused the hell outta me unfortunately. 

 

I think I'm probably in over my head here, so I'm just going to try the 4 cable method tonight and see if I can send the other main out to my PA.

 

If that fails I guess I'll send the HX Stomp back to the shop and go back to using analogue.

 

Thanks anyway all

[SteveFrance]

32 minutes ago, Kilrahi said:

 

Okay I think we're just having a communication problem here.  When I say "pre amp effects block" I should be more specific. I am referring to things like overdrive pedals and compressors, BUT more specifically I was trying to say "whatever effects you want BEFORE (using "pre" instead of before, but I get your confusion because there is a block called "preamp") your amp."

 

Allright, i'm sorry, i didn't understand that !!!

Nevertheless, in this chain construction, you'll have a problem.

i'm gonna take a simpler exemple.

If there's only one amp sim, you split the signal after this one. You go to a cab model and to FOH from a stomp's output. On the other hand, you go from your amp sim into the return of your actual amp but it means you have two series poweramp, no ? There's a matter too...

[Kilrahi]

20 minutes ago, guitarbloke1980 said:

Ok, well, as an old analogue guy, most of your above responses to my question have confused the hell outta me unfortunately. 

 

 

*Sigh*. Damn I'm sorry man. Honestly this kind of stuff confused the hell out of me too at first but the more you dig in the easier it becomes. Unfortunately in your case two things happened.  First, you were wanting (or at least from my understanding you were wanting) to do something a little more complex. Two, me and the other poster started circling around each other over disagreements as I tried to come up with a way to do it.  

 

It's too bad I can't just come over there and show you what I'm trying to say because I don't think it would be as complex as it sounds. Might still suck, but it wouldn't be a mess.

11 minutes ago, SteveFrance said:

If there's only one amp sim, you split the signal after this one. You go to a cab model and to FOH from a stomp's output. On the other hand, you go from your amp sim into the return of your actual amp but it means you have two series poweramp, no ? There's a matter too...

 

Damn,  yeah you're right on that. That's the problem with trying to visualize this in my head. I'm not bright enough to keep track of all of that. Once again the dilemma here is the Stomp's six block limitation. With the Helix it would be easy. 

 

What you really need is to do a separate path completely (path B). If you use a amp block of any type it would be the pre amp block. 

 

Which you CAN do - how much that would nail your DSP though is hard to figure out, and no matter what the inability to share all but the effects before your amp blocks seriously curtails the available blocks.

[Kilrahi]

After all this round and round I honestly think your best bet for happiness is what is depicted in this video at 3:12. My only complaint is they should have showed a signal chain to match it. The "Seismic Matters" is just a preset that has nothing to do with what they're describing. 

 

I'd try this approach (it would be easy for anyone to walk you through it block by block) and if it doesn't make you happy, then yeah, the Stomp isn't your thing. 

 

 

[SteveFrance]

5 hours ago, Kilrahi said:

Damn,  yeah you're right on that. That's the problem with trying to visualize this in my head. I'm not bright enough to keep track of all of that. Once again the dilemma here is the Stomp's six block limitation. With the Helix it would be easy. 

 

What you really need is to do a separate path completely (path B). If you use a amp block of any type it would be the pre amp block.

 

:), it was what i was thinking at the beginning.... lol

But you're right it seems there's a possibility shown in this vid, i don't know how they do so (may be a fx loop block...)

I don't own the stomp but i've seen the ability to send midi too, i thought it was impossible, this was really the main thing that prevents me to buy one.

In this demo, there's powercab's model speaker changing, what i was looking for, thanks a lot Kilrahi, i want one now !!!!

I just have to talk to my wife now !!!! ;)

[mh84]

Instead of creating a new thread, I thought it would be useful to post my question in here, as I am also a new user and have a question about signal paths.

 

I have been able to add a parallel signal path so that my TriChorus and Micropitch shifter are in separate paths. After this parallel path, I have added a stereo delay and reverb in series. 

Now what I want to do is split the signal again after the reverb and have an unaltered signal coming out of the main output, and the second, parallel signal going through a cabsim and being sent to the second output. However, whenever I add the second parallel path, the first and second parallel paths get merged. Is there any way to avoid this?

[Kilrahi]

The Stomp can only do one parallel path, so once you reconnect a split you're committed to a serial path from that point going forward.  

[guitarbloke1980]

23 hours ago, Kilrahi said:

 

*Sigh*. Damn I'm sorry man. Honestly this kind of stuff confused the hell out of me too at first but the more you dig in the easier it becomes. Unfortunately in your case two things happened.  First, you were wanting (or at least from my understanding you were wanting) to do something a little more complex. Two, me and the other poster started circling around each other over disagreements as I tried to come up with a way to do it.  

 

It's too bad I can't just come over there and show you what I'm trying to say because I don't think it would be as complex as it sounds. Might still suck, but it wouldn't be a mess.

 

Damn,  yeah you're right on that. That's the problem with trying to visualize this in my head. I'm not bright enough to keep track of all of that. Once again the dilemma here is the Stomp's six block limitation. With the Helix it would be easy. 

 

What you really need is to do a separate path completely (path B). If you use a amp block of any type it would be the pre amp block. 

 

Which you CAN do - how much that would nail your DSP though is hard to figure out, and no matter what the inability to share all but the effects before your amp blocks seriously curtails the available blocks.

 

Thanks Kilrahi, I really do appreciate all the advice given here,. it's just my old school brain holding me back!

 

I tried it last night using the 4 cable method and I fed the unused main out (R/Mono) to the PA - this worked, although it effectively ran in stereo with my guitar amp as the left and the PA as the right.  To get around this, I needed to make sure I wasn't not using any stereo effects otherwise it sounded weird.

 

I *think* this will get me where I need to be - I'm happy to run in mono anyway.  I'll try it at the next full band rehearsal and see how it goes.

 

Thanks again