Can a Tube-Preamp drive a Cab in Helix?

[Llywellyn]

Hi, 

 

I am searching the web for quite a while now but could not find an answer to my question. 

 

So there are this new Victory Tube Preamp pedals and I am thinking of buying the sheriff as I really like the sound of it. 

 

In a physical (real) amp chain you would put the sheriff in the fx-loop to bypass the preamp using only the poweramp section to drive the cab. 

 

My question is now, how do i do this in helix if I want to use only a cab in helix (no real amp)?

 

I really don't understand how to set this up in the chain.... i can not put an external poweramp infront of the helix I guess.... but how do i drive the cab then as there would be no amp in the chain at all!?

Do I miss something?

 

Thank you in advance.

 

Sincerely

 

[cruisinon2]

4 hours ago, Llywellyn said:

Hi, 

 

I am searching the web for quite a while now but could not find an answer to my question. 

 

So there are this new Victory Tube Preamp pedals and I am thinking of buying the sheriff as I really like the sound of it. 

 

In a physical (real) amp chain you would put the sheriff in the fx-loop to bypass the preamp using only the poweramp section to drive the cab. 

 

My question is now, how do i do this in helix if I want to use only a cab in helix (no real amp)?

 

I really don't understand how to set this up in the chain.... i can not put an external poweramp infront of the helix I guess.... but how do i drive the cab then as there would be no amp in the chain at all!?

Do I miss something?

 

Thank you in advance.

 

Sincerely

 

 

We're in the digital realm here. You're not "driving" the cab models in Helix at all, as there's nothing physical to drive. And, Helix has no power section, so there's never a "real amp" anywhere in your signal chain. If you wish to monitor through an actual guitar cabinet, you can come out of Helix into a power amp to drive said cabinet, or use some sort of powered FRFR monitor(s).

 

If you wish to use this pedal in place of an amp model in Helix, it's as simple as putting the pedal in an FX loop, and placing an FX loop block in front of your cab block, where the amp model would otherwise have been.

 

And no, under no circumstances can you feed a power amp into Helix... you'll destroy it, and likely the amp along with it.

 

 

[Llywellyn]

2 minutes ago, cruisinon2 said:

 

You're not "driving" the cab models in Helix at all, as there's nothing physical to drive. And, Helix has no power section, so there's never a "real amp" anywhere in your signal chain. You can come out of Helix into a power amp to drive an actual guitar cabinet, or use some sort of powered FRFR monitor(s).

 

If you wish to use this pedal in place of an amp model in Helix, it's as simple as placing an FX loop block in front of your cab block, where the amp model would otherwise have been.

 

And no, under no circumstances can you feed a power amp into Helix... you'll destroy it, and likely the amp as well.

 

 

 

so basically i just run this like a normal external pedal but without using an amp block infront of the cab? 

hmmm well thats pretty easy then! :D 

 

yeah - i really dont know much about all this poweramp stuff, but i still kinda have thought that running a poweramp infront of the helix could do some serious damage... glad youve still mentioned it though :))

 

thank you very much! i am off now buying me a new pedal/preamp :D

 

 

[marvio]

On 2/25/2019 at 8:08 AM, cruisinon2 said:

 

We're in the digital realm here. You're not "driving" the cab models in Helix at all, as there's nothing physical to drive. And, Helix has no power section, so there's never a "real amp" anywhere in your signal chain. If you wish to monitor through an actual guitar cabinet, you can come out of Helix into a power amp to drive said cabinet, or use some sort of powered FRFR monitor(s).

 

If you wish to use this pedal in place of an amp model in Helix, it's as simple as putting the pedal in an FX loop, and placing an FX loop block in front of your cab block, where the amp model would otherwise have been.

 

And no, under no circumstances can you feed a power amp into Helix... you'll destroy it, and likely the amp along with it.

 

 

Cruisionon,

Not quite sure I get it? I'm trying a similar thing with an ADA-MP1 I have, and if I do that it sounds like absolute crap, much like plugging the ADA directly into my interface.

I understand there is no real anything, it's all modeled, sure, I get it, but just for sake of the argument...

 

In the real world I would either use the ADA through a Power amp or on the effects return of a tube amp, I would do that to get what the tone shaping of the power amp and the end result of this set up is that the sound coming out of the speakers was what ADA intended you to hear.

What you suggest here, in real world terms, it to connect the ADA right into a cab, which you can do, and sound comes out, but putting aside actual loudness for a moment, the sound coming out of the CAB directly connected to the ADA is, much like the modeling counterpart, crap, because it doesn't have a power amp to shape the final tone...

 

On the POD HD there were stand alone power amps just for this purpose, but unless I'm missing something I can't find a power amp on the HELIX? Is there a way to put the ADA on the "effect return" of a modeled amp?

 

 

[cruisinon2]

12 hours ago, marvio said:

 

What you suggest here, in real world terms, it to connect the ADA right into a cab, which you can do, and sound comes out, but putting aside actual loudness for a moment, the sound coming out of the CAB directly connected to the ADA is, much like the modeling counterpart, crap, because it doesn't have a power amp to shape the final tone...

 

 

 

 

It is possible to use an external pedal/pre-amp/pre-amp section of a head or combo/etc in place of an amp model in Helix, and get your primary tone in that manner.....that's all I said. And plenty of guys do exactly that...but there is no option to add a separate modeled power amp after it, because there aren't any. If you are determined to use an external preamp, but you also can't leave behind the part of your sound that comes from a tube amp's power-section, then you have 2 options: 1)Use the 4 cable method, no cab sims from Helix, and the tube amp of your choice feeding a traditional passive speaker cabinet. In this case your Helix essentially becomes a very expensive multi-fx unit. 

 

or

 

2) Go straight into your amp, then into a load box to bring it's output back down to line level so that it can be safely fed into Helix, using either the native cab sims or 3rd party IR's for speaker emulation, and out to the FRFR output of your choice.

 

12 hours ago, marvio said:

 

On the POD HD there were stand alone power amps just for this purpose, but unless I'm missing something I can't find a power amp on the HELIX? Is there a way to put the ADA on the "effect return" of a modeled amp?

 

 

 

I ran an HD500X for 5+ years before getting a Helix...and no, there are no stand alone power amp models in that unit, or anything else Line 6 has ever produced as far as I know. There are stand alone pre-amp models, or full amp models, which contain the both pre-amp and power amp....but you cannot isolate the power amp model by itself. 

 

12 hours ago, marvio said:

 

 

On the POD HD there were stand alone power amps just for this purpose, but unless I'm missing something I can't find a power amp on the HELIX? Is there a way to put the ADA on the "effect return" of a modeled amp?

 

 

 

No. Just as it was not possible to isolate only the modeled power amp from the rest of the amp model in the HD series units, it is not possible to do it with Helix either.

 

Quote

 I'm trying a similar thing with an ADA-MP1 I have, and if I do that it sounds like absolute crap, much like plugging the ADA directly into my interface.

 

Running a pre-amp straight into an interface sounds like $hit because there is no speaker emulation anywhere. It has absolutely nothing to do with the lack of a power amp, be it a real one, or the digital model thereof. You could run that ADA into a real tube power amp, then into a load box, and feed that into your interface, but without any cabinet sim plug-ins or IR's, that will sound like crap too.