Snapshot issue with Helix Rack

[welsh7]

Hi all,

Recently got a Helix Rack and controller. Live Im going to be using my computer, running a reaper project, to switch my presets/snapshots for me. But i have come across a problem. For some reason, some instances of a certain snapshot command does not work correctly. Im sending to the helix to go to preset 3 snapshot 2 (PC 2, CC69:Value1). It will go to the correct preset but it goes to Snapshot 1 instead of 2. But in the same project on the same track in the same midi region it functions normally and goes to Preset 3 snapshot 2. Any help as to what be causing this?

[rd2rk]

When you view the midi events in the "built-in midi editor", is everything as it should be?

[welsh7]

17 minutes ago, rd2rk said:

When you view the midi events in the "built-in midi editor", is everything as it should be?

what you mean by 'built in midi editor'?

The midi info being sent to the helix is exactly the same in all instances of this combination of PC, CC and Value to CC. So far this one instances is only one that does not work right. every other instance of this combination works fine.

[rd2rk]

14 minutes ago, welsh7 said:

The midi info being sent to the helix is exactly the same in all instances of this combination of PC, CC and Value to CC. So far this one instances is only one that does not work right. every other instance of this combination works fine.

 

Select the midi track. On the menu bar, select ITEM, then "Open in built-in MIDI editor". Assuming you haven't changed the defaults in Preferences, a window will open displaying the MIDI events and exact times for the track. If you know the approximate track time for the errant event, you can see if the proper snapshot # is being sent.

 

EDIT: If you leave the editor box open and play the track, each event will be highlighted as it occurs

[welsh7]

10 minutes ago, rd2rk said:

 

Select the midi track. On the menu bar, select ITEM, then "Open in built-in MIDI editor". Assuming you haven't changed the defaults in Preferences, a window will open displaying the MIDI events and exact times for the track. If you know the approximate track time for the errant event, you can see if the proper snapshot # is being sent.

 

EDIT: If you leave the editor box open and play the track, each event will be highlighted as it occurs

Ok, thats what ive been editing it in already (didnt know actual name of the window). Playing it back its not indicating any difference between the 2 instances. 

[rd2rk]

You could try setting up another track with a midi monitor to see what's actually being sent.

If you change the snapshot # for that event, will it then call the new snapshot # correctly?

[welsh7]

3 hours ago, rd2rk said:

You could try setting up another track with a midi monitor to see what's actually being sent.

If you change the snapshot # for that event, will it then call the new snapshot # correctly?

I changed the value being sent along CC 69. still no change when it goes along as its programmed. but i found that if i change the preset via the helix control before it reaches the troublesome midi command. It works perfectly. But if i do not change it manually before that point, it goes to correct Preset but to snapshot 1 instead of the one i tell it to go to.

[rd2rk]

OK, I think I've got it figured out. If the Snapshot message follows too closely after the Preset change, it doesn't work. Latency thing? Increase the position on the snapshot change message by .5 and it should work.

 

EX: Preset change at 8.1.10, Snapshot change at 8.1.60.

 

That worked for me.

[brentmoreland1]

Why do you need to change the preset with your DAW?  Just send the CC69 command without the PC command.  If you use the same preset for the whole song, then you only have to send the PC message at the top of the song, without the snapshot CC (69).  If you want the preset to come up on snapshot 3, just recall Snapshot 3 on the Helix, and save the preset that way.  It will now be recalled by only the PC command on snapshot 3.  Any other changes in the song should come from the CC69 messages only.  

 

I find that PC messages are only useful to me at the top of the tune, for initialization.  I do all my other changes in a tune with CC messages.  

[welsh7]

14 hours ago, brentmoreland1 said:

Why do you need to change the preset with your DAW?  Just send the CC69 command without the PC command.  If you use the same preset for the whole song, then you only have to send the PC message at the top of the song, without the snapshot CC (69).  If you want the preset to come up on snapshot 3, just recall Snapshot 3 on the Helix, and save the preset that way.  It will now be recalled by only the PC command on snapshot 3.  Any other changes in the song should come from the CC69 messages only.  

 

I find that PC messages are only useful to me at the top of the tune, for initialization.  I do all my other changes in a tune with CC messages.  

Its going from my rhythm sound to lead sound and the snapshot CC Is telling to go to snapshot with a specific harmonizer switched on instead of going just to my normal lead setting.

 

 

On 3/11/2019 at 10:35 PM, rd2rk said:

OK, I think I've got it figured out. If the Snapshot message follows too closely after the Preset change, it doesn't work. Latency thing? Increase the position on the snapshot change message by .5 and it should work.

 

EX: Preset change at 8.1.10, Snapshot change at 8.1.60.

 

That worked for me.

Thats the thing though. all the other instances are at set to go at same time with the PC change. and they're all fine. I guess for now as a work around just have to delay this one by couple samples. :/

[rd2rk]

1 hour ago, welsh7 said:

Thats the thing though. all the other instances are at set to go at same time with the PC change. and they're all fine. I guess for now as a work around just have to delay this one by couple samples. :/

 

Are you certain that in the cases that work, the presets aren't already saved with the required snapshot as the default? I ask because that was the ONLY way I could get it to work without the delay I suggested. Also, if that delay is a problem, you could save other copies of the required presets in a different location with the required snapshot as the default.

 

All workarounds but, the problem of the Helix needing a moment to change the preset before accepting a snapshot change is not peculiar to Reaper, I've seen the problem using other external MIDI hardware directly, and even using other software amp sims. For instance, using GR5 with an FCB1010 set to send a Preset Change along with CC#s to activate or bypass effects doesn't work (CC#s not effective), while it works fine with TH3 and Amplitube.

 

EDIT: Since it's been a couple of years since I've done much with amp sims (don't use them much now that I have Helix and Native), I thought I'd revisit this. Turns out my memory sucks. TH3 and Amplitube work fine with PCs followed by CCs, but AT4 uses straight PCs (no banks to change) and TH3 only works with learned BANK PREV/NEXT. GR5 is the only one of the three that accepts standard MIDI Bank Change messages , and will do a PC with a Bank Change (CC#032+PC#), but doesn't accept CCs when preceded by PCs (CC#032+PC#+CC#). This being the Helix forum, probably nobody really cares, but I hate posting misleading info!