Ir for resophonic guitar

[purptiger]

Hello I have a Epiphone houndog dobro guitar that I want to run through the Helix. Are there any irs for resonator guitars? If not can I use an accustic guitar ir and just let the resonator tone make the difference. Just asking

[DunedinDragon]

I use a Gretsch resonator guitar all the time on my Helix.  IRs aren't generally specific to guitars, just to cabinets regardless of what's played through them.  The IR I like the best at least for slide work on the resonator is the Redwirez Matchless G12M25 captured with a R121 mic in a position 2 inches off of the cap of the speaker.  Played through a US Deluxe Nrm amp model.  I tried the acoustic IRs from 3Sigma but it wasn't really the tone I wanted for the slide work I'm doing.  Of course your results could be different since my resonator is an all metal style rather than a wood style like the epiphone.

[codamedia]

It's too bad Fishman doesn't release an IR version of the AURA and in particular for you, the JD (Jerry Douglas) AURA. They call them something different (sound images, or something like that), but essentially they are IR's in a hardware box. If you own one of those boxes you can create some really nice IR's from them, but there is nothing available for download. 

 

Here is something you might want to try. It's a little outside the box, but it works well for me.

 

Glenn DeLaune sells a BANJO patch that includes a custom made banjo IR that is surprisingly nice. The patch with IR is just $7 on his site (https://www.glenndelaune.com/helix-patches.htm). The IR works as it should with the patch... but I also apply it to my 5 string banjo patch and my resonator patch. I blend the IR lightly and find it adds a sparkle to my resonator that I can't get from EQ alone.

[dberner]

Hi codamedia,

Resurrecting an old thread here...if I was going to make an IR from the JD Aura as you're describing, would I use the normal process (record both a direct signal and mic signal of the dobro into an IR processing plugin) but instead of coming directly off the pickup, I would go through the JD Aura on the direct signal?  I've been looking around, but haven't seen anyone describing how to do this. Thanks!

[netproclaim]

Haven't tried this one personally but there could be something here:

NATIONAL STYLE O RESONATOR GUITAR IMPULSE RESPONSES! (gumroad.com)

NATIONAL STYLE O RESONATOR GUITAR IMPULSE RESPONSES ON OFF DEMO - YouTube

 

[netproclaim]

This is the response I received from 3Sigma Audio when I asked if they had anything in the works for a Resonator IR:

 

"Great suggestion! We will pass it onto our development team for a potential future release."

 

Hopefully this will materialize...

 

[DunedinDragon]

I guess I don't understand what the big deal is here.  To my knowledge there has NEVER been any kind of specialized speaker used for a resonator.  In all cases it's always been used with a traditional amp.  So pick an amp and speaker and mic and play.  The resonator produces the correct sound and tone.  All you have to do is amplify it appropriately.  My most common setup for my Gretsch resonator is using a US Deluxe Nrm amp model with a Matchless IR with a Celestion G12M25 Greenback speaker with a R121 ribbon mic.  Dial in tone and mic placement to taste.  There's nothing complicated here......

[codamedia]

On 10/29/2021 at 11:36 PM, dberner said:

if I was going to make an IR from the JD Aura as you're describing, would I use the normal process (record both a direct signal and mic signal of the dobro into an IR processing plugin) but instead of coming directly off the pickup, I would go through the JD Aura on the direct signal?  

 

Don't use the guitar while making an IR, use a sweep wave to get the purist sound from the Fishman. 

Use the free version of voxengo deconvolver to create the sweep....

1. Record the direct sweep on one audio file...
2. Set the JD Aura to preset 1.... turn the blend up full and the volume about half way
3. Play the sweep you recorded in step 1  through the aura, and record it's output in a new file or track
4. Repeat for all the presets
5. Now use "deconvolver" to create the IR's by comparing the original sweep to each each recorded preset sweep. You will make 16 IR's in total (one for each preset)... but the free version of deconvolver needs to be restarted after 2 or 3 builds. 

I did this with my JD Aura and with my favorite tones from my Fishman Aura. The IR's are indistinguishable from the hardware.  

NOTE: It takes some trial and error... there are some youtube videos on using deconvolver to create IR's you might find useful. 

[codamedia]

7 hours ago, DunedinDragon said:

I guess I don't understand what the big deal is here.  To my knowledge there has NEVER been any kind of specialized speaker used for a resonator.  In all cases it's always been used with a traditional amp....

 

The JD Aura is not a "speaker sim" it's more of a "mic/distance" sim. No cabinets.... no amps - just the tone of the MIC/Distance through a high end pre-amp. When you use a piezo on a Dobro (resonator)... the JD Aura adds that "mic/distance" flavor into the tone. When you capture an IR from a JD Aura, it does the same thing. 

 

I have to respectfully disagree with "in all cases it's always been used with a traditional amp". In Bluegrass and Country it's often just a mic direct to FOH/Console like an acoustic guitar would be. I've never seen my favorite "Dobro Players" (Jerry Douglass, Phil Leadbetter (RIP), etc...)  plug into any "traditional amp"... yet some of my favorite Blues/Americana players all use amps.

 

Both options are viable, but each option provides a very different tone suited to different styles of playing. 

 

7 hours ago, DunedinDragon said:

My most common setup for my Gretsch resonator is using a US Deluxe Nrm amp model with a Matchless IR with a Celestion G12M25 Greenback speaker with a R121 ribbon mic.  Dial in tone and mic placement to taste.  There's nothing complicated here......

 

As I mention above, that is certainly one viable way to do it but so is placing a MIC on the resonator at 12" - 16". You simply cannot do the latter with a Helix because you can't add a MIC without a cabinet... and you can't pull the mic back further than 6". 

 

On the Helix alone... maybe a neutral sounding cabinet with the 121 would get close... but (IMO) I would not insert an amp into the mix for the bluegrass tones I am familiar with.