Bmicona Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 I recently got a Peavey VK212 which has no master volume, and no way to control the volume of the power amp. So plugging my HD500x into the effects return of the amp, and I have the switch on the Pod set to "amp" the only volume control I have is on the Pod, I'm not sure that it gets gig-able volume. But if I flip that switch to "line" it gets much louder. Is this bad for the amp? It's a 100w combo amp. Would it be better to keep it on "amp" and maybe raise the volume in the mixer section of the Pod? I just don't want to screw up the valveking, so I'm playing it more safe than sorry at this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pianoguyy Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 I will let someone else handle the rest of the jibber jabber. I want to address this... 1 hour ago, Bmicona said: I'm not sure that it gets gig-able volume. The term gig-able volume is a misnomer in and of itself. The pa should be handling gig volume. All you need to do is to be able to hear yourself. If you are smart, you will use the floor monitors at the front off the stage pointed away from the audience. However, let's just assume that you want to be able to hear yourself over top of the drums. Yes, your amp will provide more than enough power. And, if by some insane reason, you think that it doesn't.... you can supplement it with the floor monitors, or a 2nd and 3rd amp coming out of the two xlr jacks from the pod. Oh, and be smart about it. Don't put the amp on the ground and aim it at your feet. Your ears are feet in the air. Put your amp on a stand of some sort, or tilt it back so that it shoots upwards towards your head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bmicona Posted March 12, 2019 Author Share Posted March 12, 2019 I guess i'm just imagining a scenario where there is no PA. It may be loud enough. I guess I won't know until I try it. Unless someone tells me that setting the Pod to "line" output into an amp won't damage it, I'm not going to do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pianoguyy Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 6 hours ago, Bmicona said: I guess i'm just imagining a scenario where there is no PA. It may be loud enough. If there is no pa, then how are you going to power the vocals? If there is no pa, then you shouldn't play. But, to answer the question as it is stands - You will have plenty of volume and great tone for the people standing exactly where you are standing. Anyone standing off to the side or in the back are going to hear garbage. That is just the way amps/speakers work. That is why there is always a pa. Guitar amp is sound for the guitarist. Bass amp is sound for the bassist. Drums are acoustic instruments, they provide their own amplification. But the letters PA stand for public address. That is how you, address the public. You go on stage, you address the public. Therefore you are using a pa system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joel_brown Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 Maybe he plays in a fusion jazz band that has no vocals. Not everyone mics everything up. Most bands in small bars don't mic lollipop. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pianoguyy Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 I swear, no wonder people pay more attention to their cell phones than the bands that paid to see them. Yes, I said that correctly, bands that paid to see the people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bmicona Posted March 12, 2019 Author Share Posted March 12, 2019 On 11/30/2018 at 12:55 PM, pianoguyy said: clipping involves input, not output. Turn your Pod down, turn the amp up. On 11/30/2018 at 2:20 PM, codamedia said: I wouldn't expect that powered cabinet to have an abundance of power, but it should have enough to keep up in most situations. The balanced out on the HD500 is suppose to be mic level, so that selection should be correct. Turn the MASTER VOLUME on the speaker up FULL (nothing short of full)... then get a balance between the output level on the POD and the INPUT GAIN on the speaker. There should be enough power there without clipping. 4 hours ago, hurghanico said: The RETURN input of the amps is made to receive LINE level signals, therefore don't worry, you will not damage your amp in any way.. Set the 1/4" OUT switch to LINE, and in case the volume is too loud (and I mean for you, not for the amp), use the POD master volume knob to adjust it. FYI the 1/4" OUT "AMP" output setting is instead for connecting the POD to the front panel input of any amp for el. guitar, but the RETURN input (usually located on the rear panel) requires always hotter LINE level signals, like the ones given by any pre-amp. _______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ All about POD HD500/X Thank you sir! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codamedia Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 I do wish my quotes would not be taken out of context from another thread and inserted here. This is a very different question than I was referring to in that other thread. If it helped you great, but it really has no relevance here. For the record (and more appropriate to this thread)... I often ran my HD500 (now my Helix) into the power amp input on a Peavey Bandit 112 loaded with a full range speaker. A poor mans FRFR, but by no means a real FRFR. I run the output at LINE LEVEL into the power amp in (you will NOT hurt the amp), then use the volume control on the unit to adjust for whatever volume I require. That was tricky with an HD500 because the volume controlled every output, therefore effecting the signal to the FOH. With the Helix I can keep them separated from the volume control. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olds70ragtop Posted March 30, 2019 Share Posted March 30, 2019 "If there is no PA, you shouldn't play..." Seriously? At any rate, running the Pod in the the return of the Peavey is the logical choice, and you are effectively slaving the power amp by doing this. I would absolutely choose "line" as the output voltage on the HD500 and throttle the volume using the Pod's master control. I run most of my set-ups this way. This will give you a much better "stage volume" in those venues where sound reinforcement is either not an option or comical at best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pianoguyy Posted March 31, 2019 Share Posted March 31, 2019 11 hours ago, olds70ragtop said: "If there is no PA, you shouldn't play..." Seriously? It is your name in lights. You are the one that gets the glory or takes the blame. The regular joe isn't going to walk out at the end of the night saying "that was a good band but the house mix was horrible". No, they are walking out early complaining about the headache you gave them. And they will never see you again. An income stream (aka a fan) lost forever. Take control of your business. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codamedia Posted March 31, 2019 Share Posted March 31, 2019 On 3/11/2019 at 11:55 PM, Bmicona said: I guess i'm just imagining a scenario where there is no PA. On 3/12/2019 at 7:06 AM, pianoguyy said: If there is no pa, then how are you going to power the vocals? If there is no pa, then you shouldn't play. On 3/30/2019 at 8:08 AM, olds70ragtop said: "If there is no PA, you shouldn't play..." Seriously? 16 hours ago, pianoguyy said: It is your name in lights. You are the one that gets the glory or takes the blame. Maybe it's just me... but this back and forth seems odd to me. When I see a modeling discussion that suggests there is no PA I don't take it so literal.... my thought is that it means the PA is for VOCALS ONLY and we can't plug the modeler into it for volume reinforcement. In those cases, we need our own solution to be loud enough for the room. House parties, legions, small clubs or halls... this is common! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joel_brown Posted April 1, 2019 Share Posted April 1, 2019 It's common for me also. But evidently not for pianoguy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pianoguyy Posted April 1, 2019 Share Posted April 1, 2019 35 years, never did a show where the guitar amps weren't mic'd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codamedia Posted April 1, 2019 Share Posted April 1, 2019 35 minutes ago, pianoguyy said: 35 years, never did a show where the guitar amps weren't mic'd. For the most part I am with you on that, but I can't say never. At least a half dozen gigs a year has me setting up on a stage with a "vocal only" PA. Those gigs usually pay just as good, are equally as fun, and the crowd still has a great time. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cruisinon2 Posted April 1, 2019 Share Posted April 1, 2019 2 hours ago, pianoguyy said: 35 years, never did a show where the guitar amps weren't mic'd. Clearly you've never played Walt's Trout Hut... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olds70ragtop Posted April 2, 2019 Share Posted April 2, 2019 35 Years, I've played plenty of stage volume only gigs wit only Vox PA'd and without mic'd guitar cabs, including 6 weeks ago. You can't always pull this off with little boutique low power amps, but 50+ watts into 2x12s or more will do just fine for real small venues. The other thing I've learned in 35+ years, is that being a professional musician means you come prepared for most any eventuality as best you can and the only thing you can count on is constant change. What I also know is that Bmicona simply asked a question about input/output voltage and "gig-able" volume not any of our opinions of what gigs he should or shouldn't take. I don't know about the rest of you guys, but I don't mic amps at rehearsal, so a gig-able volume is a necessity for me and my loud-lollipop drummer. ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pianoguyy Posted April 2, 2019 Share Posted April 2, 2019 If you aren't providing your own sound, don't you put in your contract what the venue needs to supply? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cruisinon2 Posted April 2, 2019 Share Posted April 2, 2019 1 hour ago, pianoguyy said: If you aren't providing your own sound, don't you put in your contract what the venue needs to supply? Lol...I know you're a life-long touring pro, stadiums and the like... but the overwhelming majority of us are not playing MSG with signed national acts, and we don't have booking agents, tour managers, and a guy who drives the 747-sized bus. Now for the few years that I toiled in a wedding band, there were contracts and deposits... but that was between the band and couple hiring us...it had nothing to do with the venue, and equipment was entirely our problem. That aside, not once in 25+ years of playing hundreds of small bars and clubs, have I signed a contract... and were you to ask for one from Red's Corner Bar, you'd get laughed at. Just ain't the way it goes for most, if not all of us amateurs... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pianoguyy Posted April 2, 2019 Share Posted April 2, 2019 But I had to start at the bottom like everyone else. If it isn't in writing how much you are being paid for how much play time, and the gear riders, and security, and lodging... you could show up expected to be a nude bartender. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cruisinon2 Posted April 2, 2019 Share Posted April 2, 2019 27 minutes ago, pianoguyy said: But I had to start at the bottom like everyone else. If it isn't in writing how much you are being paid for how much play time, and the gear riders, and security, and lodging... you could show up expected to be a nude bartender. Indeed. I'm never going back to Arkansas...;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olds70ragtop Posted April 3, 2019 Share Posted April 3, 2019 The gear riders? Seriously, I've played semi-pro for many years and have never needed "Gear Riders" up to and including the few Nationals I've opened for. There have been verbal agreements for pay, but in 35 years I think I've signed 1 contract dealing with money only. When your an all original band fighting for stage space with 350 other local original bands on any given night you can pretty much assume the pay is going to suck, unless you're a big draw with a guaranteed crowd. Hell, I think LA is still doing "Pay to Play" so, there's that. Honestly, lawyers cost REAL money and I wouldn't sigh any contract with riders and expectations without my attorney having a look first. I'm not booking shows into the American Airlines Center, just the local watering hole. Quote If you aren't providing your own sound, don't you put in your contract what the venue needs to supply? Umm, didn't you visit the venue or speak to them before booking to understand what they had already? I know all the venues i play around here, their current PA status and who's running sound. I mean, your either part of the scene or your not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kpsion Posted May 28, 2019 Share Posted May 28, 2019 On 3/12/2019 at 2:38 AM, Bmicona said: I recently got a Peavey VK212 which has no master volume, and no way to control the volume of the power amp. So plugging my HD500x into the effects return of the amp, and I have the switch on the Pod set to "amp" the only volume control I have is on the Pod, I'm not sure that it gets gig-able volume. But if I flip that switch to "line" it gets much louder. Is this bad for the amp? It's a 100w combo amp. Would it be better to keep it on "amp" and maybe raise the volume in the mixer section of the Pod? I just don't want to screw up the valveking, so I'm playing it more safe than sorry at this point. Compare input direct in preamp and by the way combo, and inputing to pod plugged in power amp.... Line should be correct setup, and i've found that 3/4 master volume on pod leads to preamp output equivalent... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joel_brown Posted May 29, 2019 Share Posted May 29, 2019 This is an old dead thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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