helix Tube preamp pedal + Helix Floor + Powercab 112 advice

[jordimbrinkman]

Hi all,

 

Since about 3 months I switched from full tube setup to Helix floor + Powercab 112 plus. Reason to travel more light. It's a fun and intuitive setup. However I have not managed to get my basic sounds even close to the authentic sound and punch I was used to. Too digital, too processed. I have went through all possible settings, tweaks, research to ensure to get the best out of the tools. I'm not convinced it can deliver the sound 'with balls' which is a default with any tube amp. Sound used to be my strong side during gigs, it has now become my weakness. The band and audience  even tell me my sound is not in comparison with the other guitarist (simple tube amp and few pedals). Can't here you, not defined tone etc. My Helix journey is becoming a frustration and want to enjoy playing again instead. 

 

Here the reason of my post. As a final solution, before deciding to sell my Helix and powercab, I am considering to buy a good tube preamp pedal (e.g. Mesa Boogie V-twin, Koch Pedaltone and loop it with the helix. That could give me those true basic sounds. I'd use the tube pedal as amp channels exclusively and use the Helix for effects and programs basically. This solution would still allow me to travel light.

 

Does anyone know if above could be a good solution or would I still miss the tube sound from a power amp? Also does anyone know if tube pedals allow the Helix to select the different channels from the pedal (so you can program clean/overdrive/high gain in presets like you can with 4 cabling method with tradional amps)?

 

Appreciate any advice/experience sharing on above (no need to convince I should continue Tweaking my Helix, I tried all. Simply not satisfied and not enjoying the journey any longer).

 

 Thanks!

[codamedia]

8 minutes ago, jordimbrinkman said:

As a final solution, before deciding to sell my Helix and powercab, I am considering to buy a good tube preamp pedal (e.g. Mesa Boogie V-twin, Koch Pedaltone and loop it with the helix.

 

IMO... you don't need those products to make the Helix sound good. I'm not dissing those products, they are great.... but so is the Helix and it shouldn't "need" them. 

• When you used an amp did your tones compare favorably to the other guitar players?
• Are you setting up the effect chain different with the Helix than you did when you ran a regular amp?

Can you provide an audio or video clip of your tone?

Can you share one of your presets so we can see how you dialed it in? Of course... we also need to know how you have set your power cab which only some of us have. 

[jordimbrinkman]

14 minutes ago, codamedia said:

 

IMO... you don't need those products to make the Helix sound good. I'm not dissing those products, they are great.... but so is the Helix and it shouldn't "need" them. 

• When you used an amp did your tones compare favorably to the other guitar players?
• Are you setting up the effect chain different with the Helix than you did when you ran a regular amp?

Can you provide an audio or video clip of your tone?

Can you share one of your presets so we can see how you dialed it in? Of course... we also need to know how you have set your power cab which only some of us have. 

Thanks for your feedback. I'm starting with empty preset and amp only (no cabinet) to make sure I get the basic sound right first. (Not talking about effects. No problem with those. These sound great.). Tried all the cab simulations and parameters in the powercab too. I even borrowed a real tube amp to try dialing in as close as to the amp. When I think I got close the day after, I only hear that digital sound again. Then I switch to the real amp and I'm sold... I passed the stage of trying further. I spent a crazy amount of time. Now I want to enjoy playing guitar again. Trying a true tube pedal would be my last attempt before going back to basics. See my other post which informs my main settings. Thanks!

 

[codamedia]

 

2 hours ago, jordimbrinkman said:

Then I switch to the real amp and I'm sold... I passed the stage of trying further. 

 

You seem to have talked yourself out of the Helix and Powercab... that's fine, it's not for everyone.

 

3 hours ago, jordimbrinkman said:

Does anyone know if above could be a good solution or would I still miss the tube sound from a power amp? 

 

The two pedals you mention are "pre-amps" so.... IMO, no - they will not give you the tube sound from a Power Amp....

[cruisinon2]

3 hours ago, jordimbrinkman said:

 (no need to convince I should continue Tweaking my Helix, I tried all. Simply not satisfied and not enjoying the journey any longer).

 

I've had my Helix for just shy of two years now, and I haven't come anywhere close to trying "all" available amp/cab/mic combinations, and the virtually endless approaches to EQ. I'd need a team of researchers working 3 shifts for another two years to make that claim, so if you actually think you've exhausted every option there is in a couple of months, you're mistaken...but I digress. It took me several months to get comfortable enough to gig with my Helix initially, and I was not new to modeling at the time. My point? Modelers are not guitar amps. They behave differently, and require an approach foreign to us all at the beginning. 

 

But honestly, no matter how true any of that is, none of it matters. You've already made up your mind, and that's fine. Not everybody gets along with modelers, or wants to put the time in. If you want a tube amp and some pedals, that's what you should use. It's pointless to try and talk yourself into liking something that you clearly don't... it's like marrying the wrong woman. Always ends the same way... you end up spending more money on a different unit. ;)

[jordimbrinkman]

I am disappointed cause the helix + powercab is sold and marketed as easy to setup amp in the room feel etc. I spent Eur 2k and can’t get decent sounds even after view months. It’s true I don’t want to make a study out of this, so probably modeling is not for me (though I used pod in past and wanted to give it a try again). Reason for my post was simply to learn if anyone is using a tube preamp pedal instead of the model amps and is happy with it?There is a reason why the machine has analogue loop options and amp channel switching options (that’s how I used TC g system in the past and that worked great). I think the helix works the same or better, just want to skip the amp models. I think the only way is to try for myself. Cheers 

[Kilrahi]

Just now, jordimbrinkman said:

I am disappointed cause the helix + powercab is sold and marketed as easy to setup amp in the room feel etc. I spent Eur 2k and can’t get decent sounds even after view months. It’s true I don’t want to make a study out of this, so probably modeling is not for me (though I used pod in past and wanted to give it a try again). Reason for my post was simply to learn if anyone is using a tube preamp pedal instead of the model amps and is happy with it?There is a reason why the machine has analogue loop options and amp channel switching options (that’s how I used TC g system in the past and that worked great). I think the helix works the same or better, just want to skip the amp models. I think the only way is to try for myself. Cheers 

 

You are correct. The only way to know what your tastes are is to taste it yourself. 

[cruisinon2]

1 hour ago, jordimbrinkman said:

I am disappointed cause the helix + powercab is sold and marketed as easy to setup amp in the room feel etc.

 

Everything is marketed as "easy" to learn, use, operate, set-up, etc etc... if the brochure said: "Helix is awesome, but you will encounter mind-numbing frustration and the desire to bang your head into a brick wall for a while until you learn how to use it", they would never have sold a single unit.

 

The truth is, it is very easy to use... the UI is stupid simple and intuitive...provided that you have a basic understanding of how modelers work. Was that last part deliberately omitted from the ad copy? Of course it was. The exact same thing can be said of any guitar modeler currently on the market. There are a number of excellent units out there, but not a single one will provide instant gratification. And none of the other company's ad campaigns will tell you that either. People think they want truth in advertising, but if it ever actually happened, commerce would pretty much grind to a halt... life ain't simple. 

[steelstringer]

Check out this conversation. Good luck in your tone journey!

[jordimbrinkman]

Great. Thanks. Good to see others have considered a tube preamp pedal too. I’ll give it a try. 

[jordimbrinkman]

4 hours ago, cruisinon2 said:

 

Everything is marketed as "easy" to learn, use, operate, set-up, etc etc... if the brochure said: "Helix is awesome, but you will encounter mind-numbing frustration and the desire to bang your head into a brick wall for a while until you learn how to use it", they would never have sold a single unit.

 

The truth is, it is very easy to use... the UI is stupid simple and intuitive...provided that you have a basic understanding of how modelers work. Was that last part deliberately omitted from the ad copy? Of course it was. The exact same thing can be said of any guitar modeler currently on the market. There are a number of excellent units out there, but not a single one will provide instant gratification. And none of the other company's ad campaigns will tell you that either. People think they want truth in advertising, but if it ever actually happened, commerce would pretty much grind to a halt... life ain't simple. 

Thanks! I agree it is super easy to use. Especially when you’re coming from  G-system. What you see is what you get. I wish getting the basic sound right (which is the default purpose for any effect/amp imo) was easy to dial in too. Now I learned it’s not. I hope to overcome that with a tube pedal in the loop and easily build my patches with Helix good sounding and easy to dial in :-) effects on top.