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gckelloch

Regarding New Hd Model Packs

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I keep seeing requests for model packs for the HD series. First, the old packs can't be used in the HD series because HD models are more DSP intensive, are entirely incompatible and don't have the definition of the HD models. The HD units operate at 48kHz SR 24bits. There is no need for higher resolution with guitar tones. Line 6 has already released several new free models since the product line was first released and may very well be developing new models as we continue to whine as if we are somehow due a free lunch. If you have suggestions for new models, let your voice be heard here: http://line6.ideascale.com/

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I'm starting to think you and the other new "gc......." guy are plants from Line 6...did you search threads before posting this? Ideascale is a joke so far.....just there to placate everyone while nothing happens.

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No.  I am just an enthusiastic guitar amp model guy.  I don't even use the Pod HD, but I help my brother with his HD500 sometimes.  It sounds like Line 6 isn't paying much attention to customer requests.  Perhaps they are compiling a paid amp model pack from all the requests?  They should really let customers know what's up.  Sounds like people are getting impatient.  The "gc" in my user name is just the initials of my first and middle names.  The last part is an ancient derivation of my last name.

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Line6 do pay attention to ideascale...

confirmed. 100%.

just because nothing is visibly happening... doesn't mean it isn't...

we all know that they are generally quiet about things they are working on...

 

I'm starting to think you and the other new "gc......." guy are plants from Line 6...did you search threads before posting this? Ideascale is a joke so far.....just there to placate everyone while nothing happens.

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IMO Line 6 turns out a lot of products for a company their size.  They can't be everything to everyone and it's up to them to decide what markets are best for them to focus on.  They have done a great job on the pods over the years.  There are enough models in an HD500 to configure it to almost any sound you want.  I do not see the need to have more models.

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.  They can't be everything to everyone and it's up to them to decide what markets are best for them to focus on....

They seem to be trying their hardest to be everything to everyone!  POD HD series takes the cake amongst  any and all products under the sun that's trying to be everything for everyone!!I in that regard, they are very successful with the HD series. How can any guitar player not get one of these!!

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IMO Line 6 turns out a lot of products for a company their size.  They can't be everything to everyone and it's up to them to decide what markets are best for them to focus on.  They have done a great job on the pods over the years.  There are enough models in an HD500 to configure it to almost any sound you want.  I do not see the need to have more models.

That's a good point.  The DEP parameters make it possible to simulate other amps and, to some extent, speaker cabs.  If anything, they just need some cabs with JBL DxxxF speakers for full range (up to ~8kHz) sweet woody clean tones.  The 4x12 Hiway cab Fane speakers have extended highs, but they are very different sounding than the JBL's.  One thing they maybe should consider including in the speaker DEP is a resonance tuning feature to raise or lower the overall frequency of the resonances, as well as the resonance levels.  It could be useful, but might create more confusion for plebs.  The varying resonance traits of all the different cabs might make that feature obsolete, especially considering many cabs have the same or very similar speakers.

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I am certainly not looking for any freebees.  I'd be very happy to pay a reasonable fee for the additional amp packs.  But they need to be worth buying.  In my opinion they could have saved some money on a few of the amp models that came with the original unit.  But thats just me.  For the style of playing I like, I use about 5-7 models out of the 20+ they have.  Again not bitching, very pleased with the tones I get, but would love to "PAY" for more.  Its a win, win as far as I'm concerned.

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thats the point and much the same for all of us.... only difference is that the models liked change from person to person....

i've never heard anyone say "i use them all on a regular basis"

 

 For the style of playing I like...

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It's a bit strange there's no acoustic models for those who have variax guitars!!

 

 Regarding tube amps:  in general you can get the same sound you're after with mostly any of them. It just might be different settings for different amps. I almost always end up with very similar tones on all the different amps, sometimes it can be a combination of pedals and sometimes a standalone amp and that is true in real world amplifiers, they all can be made to sound very similar..

...But, since this is mainly a recording tool, more amps make more sense, it means more tools to get the sound you're after quicker. So if you don't get model packs by this NAMM, go and get an Eleven Rack without pro tools for $300 and it will be the best $300 you've ever spent.  The models are killers and some of them have two channels in one amp model so you can mix both channels for more flexibility.  You can use either the HD or Eleven in the FX loop and now the possibilities are mind numbing if you even have the time to go through that...

 

For those after specific artist tone or play in cover bands, extra mainstream amps are useful.

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thats the point and much the same for all of us.... only difference is that the models liked change from person to person....

i've never heard anyone say "i use them all on a regular basis"

i use them all on a regular basis! seriously!

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Damn it Arislaf you beat me to it..... Well let me be the 2nd to say that I use every single amp model the regs..... The 2nd guitar teacher I had in my impressionable youth taught me what I feel is one of the best lessons any one person has ever taught me and that is.... That you can derive something from every single style and genre of music just because you play metal, rock, and such doesn't mean you can't use techniques and things from Jazz, Funk, Pop, Classical.. Etc.. Etc.... So when I got the Pod500 I entered into a sort of hog heaven because with it and my DT50 2x12 I have been able to get any tone I've ever wanted out of every guitar I've ever put through it (the latest being my new Slash AFD LP, thank you guitar gods). So while I would love to have some more Amps to play around with to make tweaking a little easier I'm not gonna be looking for a new rig any time soon. My greatest epiphany has been to disregard the tone to amp brand Pigeon holeing and learned to go strictly by ear. I can pull a pretty convincing 5150 tone using the Divided by 13 model and tweaking topology. Especially when using full amp models in LVM on my DT and able to use DEP Parameters molest the tone a bit (yes I could have used manipulate). As soon as we got the DEPs we got the key to the kingdom. And I'm not employed or affiliated by line 6 in any way. But I do agree with the Op in a way.

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I can see how the 6V6 section the Divided amp could sound like a 5150.  Class A driven 6V6 tubes generally have a sort of sweet dry papery distortion sound that I associate with a 5150, while EL84's sound more wet with a defined edge on top (probably from the 3rd harmonic). 

 

Knowing a bit about how the tubes and the operating class of the various amp sections contribute to the sound can be helpful: Whether the amp generates much 3rd harmonic distortion (pentodes do); class A or AB operation (cancels generated even harmonics); how tight or smooth the breakup is; how much amp distortion can be achieved with the Master DEP.  Virtually all the amp characteristics can be adjusted with the DEP knobs -- essentially mimicking any amp. 

 

It then comes down to how the preamp contributes to the sound.  If the preamp gain is set low enough so it doesn't distort, it won't contribute much to the sound.  For that matter, it seems like mixing different Pres and Amps would open up some possibilities as well.  Is it possible to run a Pre before an Amp?  If so, to run pres before dual amps?  As far as understanding tone stacks goes, you can look up tone stacks for common amps to see how they are configured and learn how to set them relatively flat.  You should also learn about how your guitar circuitry creates filter shapes as well, and whether your PUP's can even deliver upper mids and highs if you are trying to make use of those frequencies in your tone.

 

Many PUP's suffer from eddy current core losses that cancel out upper frequencies.  The cable and pot values all interact to form a low pass filter.    High inductance PUP's don't generally deliver upper mids much above ~3kHz.  A decent level of ~2.5kHz is generally fine for most rock-based music, but you won't get any real detailed articulation.  ~4.5kHz and ~2-4H PUP's are needed for that. ~6-8kHz can add a sweet sparkle that can be really nice for anything from country, jazz, indie pop, new wave, new age, Nic Cage, etc.  Above that range goes into acoustic guitar tone territory.  Very low inductance PUP's below 2H like a classic Tele neck (without a brass cover) or a Filtertron are needed for that range.  You'd need a speaker that can deliver those highs as well.

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Thank u sir I will be looking into that. I've had a variety of pick ups I've put through it EMG81/85, Seymore Duncan Slash Alnico pros, Lace Sensor Golds, and an EMG81/60 12v molded. And let me tell you the 81/60 requires a ton of Eq. The Lace Sensors are a dream. I recommend Lace to anyone. I've never really gone in to depth about specific frequencies each are good or bad at but I can imagine there is a plus and minus with them all. Very interesting stuff.

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The material in the core of the coil can also create eddy currents which can be utilized to dip harsher sounding frequencies in the critical ~2-4kHz hearing range.  Soft and sweet sounding vintage PUP's can often have that feature designed in, but they can have high end losses as well.  The wider magnetic aperture of the Lace Sensors softens the attack -- as is the case with most humbuckers...but the attack can sound too hard again if the PUP resonant peak is in the ~2.5 - 3.5kHz range, or from there up to ~5kHz when located at the bridge.  With passive PUP's, the resonant peak is normally tuned via pot values and the cabling capacitance before the first preamp stage.  Low C cable flattens the frequency response and extends the highs.  There are ideal C ranges for certain PUP H values, but I find ~200pF works for several H value ranges.  If you have too much highs for a given sound, you can use the HD500 IN-Z per preset to roll them off a bit.

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I can see two immediate models needed for my application. I could really use a Roland JC-120 amp model and a strait-up octave divider that does a full octave above without any other flavor attached.

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thats the point and much the same for all of us.... only difference is that the models liked change from person to person....

+1. There are lots and lots of great amps and speaker combonations out there. I think L6 did a pretty good job with the choices of amps that can cover a good range of styles. No matter how many they come out with there will always be one not inculded that someone wants. If you really, really, want a 5150 tone then go buy a 5150. You could still use the POD as effects processor in that kind of setup.

 

The only one I was bit suprised at was nothing for Acoustic guitars (or Variax acoustic patch).

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I can see how the 6V6 section the Divided amp could sound like a 5150.  Class A driven 6V6 tubes generally have a sort of sweet dry papery distortion sound that I associate with a 5150, while EL84's sound more wet with a defined edge on top (probably from the 3rd harmonic). 

 

Knowing a bit about how the tubes and the operating class of the various amp sections contribute to the sound can be helpful: Whether the amp generates much 3rd harmonic distortion (pentodes do); class A or AB operation (cancels generated even harmonics); how tight or smooth the breakup is; how much amp distortion can be achieved with the Master DEP.  Virtually all the amp characteristics can be adjusted with the DEP knobs -- essentially mimicking any amp. 

 

It then comes down to how the preamp contributes to the sound.  If the preamp gain is set low enough so it doesn't distort, it won't contribute much to the sound.  For that matter, it seems like mixing different Pres and Amps would open up some possibilities as well.  Is it possible to run a Pre before an Amp?  If so, to run pres before dual amps?  As far as understanding tone stacks goes, you can look up tone stacks for common amps to see how they are configured and learn how to set them relatively flat.  You should also learn about how your guitar circuitry creates filter shapes as well, and whether your PUP's can even deliver upper mids and highs if you are trying to make use of those frequencies in your tone.

 

Many PUP's suffer from eddy current core losses that cancel out upper frequencies.  The cable and pot values all interact to form a low pass filter.    High inductance PUP's don't generally deliver upper mids much above ~3kHz.  A decent level of ~2.5kHz is generally fine for most rock-based music, but you won't get any real detailed articulation.  ~4.5kHz and ~2-4H PUP's are needed for that. ~6-8kHz can add a sweet sparkle that can be really nice for anything from country, jazz, indie pop, new wave, new age, Nic Cage, etc.  Above that range goes into acoustic guitar tone territory.  Very low inductance PUP's below 2H like a classic Tele neck (without a brass cover) or a Filtertron are needed for that range.  You'd need a speaker that can deliver those highs as well.

Oh my.... O_O

 

Umm, how do I get together with you to learn a little bit about what you know so I can understand tones better?

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I am an HD500 user strictly for live gigging.I would not record with one unless asked too.Yes a JC-120 model would be nice as I play a lot of Wes/Benson type tones on my straight ahead jazz gigs but Wes and Benson(whom I saw long before he had vocal hit records) used Fender Twins and the Twin in my HD500 is damn good. As for acoustic tones if you play through FRFR powered speakers it's easy to write a patch with a compressor/e.q./limiter /chorus if you like for acoustic.I do this with my VG Strat and HD500 and it works very well with the acoustic models in the VG Strat. I have owned every floor based amp modeller since Digitechs RP-1 and I will tell you this HD500 absolutely amazes me with it's tone/feel/effects/amp choices etc...Really really digging it.And since I bought it used if someone falls on it with a full beer in a club and kills it I can just go online and buy another one and keep on rollin'!

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...if someone falls on it with a full beer in a club and kills it I can just go online and buy another one and keep on rollin'!...

 

+1

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I think they have enough amps.  I'd like to see more focus on fx, and also the interface for the Pod HD Edit.

I want to be able to type in values for all parameters intead of trying to fiddle with the knobs with my mouse.  Currently you can't for the mix parms.  I know I know there's not a lot of difference between 50% and 51%, but I like to be precise. 

I also want to be able to copy and paste patches instead of having to save one then load it into a new one.  I really really really want this.

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I think they have enough amps.  I'd like to see more focus on fx, and also the interface for the Pod HD Edit.

 

I want to be able to type in values for all parameters intead of trying to fiddle with the knobs with my mouse.  Currently you can't for the mix parms.  I know I know there's not a lot of difference between 50% and 51%, but I like to be precise. 

 

I also want to be able to copy and paste patches instead of having to save one then load it into a new one.  I really really really want this.

 

I second the idea of improving HD Edit. There's a lot that could be done in terms of useability and workflow. Some might say be glad that Line 6 has a program at all and that it's better than nothing. That might be true, but to do such a good job on the unit itself (for most aspects) and then do a not so good job on the rest of it in a digital age where stuff like this should really be a basic given doesn't sit well.

 

On the other hand, if you only use the unit for playing live, HD Edit probably isn't much of an issue if at all.

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On the other hand, if you only use the unit for playing live, HD Edit probably isn't much of an issue if at all.

This.

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I want to be able to type in values for all parameters intead of trying to fiddle with the knobs with my mouse.  Currently you can't for the mix parms.  I know I know there's not a lot of difference between 50% and 51%, but I like to be precise.

One thing that may make your life a little easier - if you're using a mouse with a scroll wheel, you can use that to turn the knobs up and down when you have the cursor hovering over the knob. I find it's more precise than dragging the mouse back and forth.

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Some might say be glad that Line 6 has a program at all and that it's better than nothing.

True, but since they do have it out there I think a few tweaks could really improve the functionality. 

 

I don't think a copy/paste functionality should be too difficult to implement.  And then they would just need to separate the Mix % window from the dropdown for the different types of fx. 

 

I'm not sure what else I would change.  It feels pretty good otherwise to me otherwise for the most part.  Maybe a curve editor for eq's, but that would take a big rework for the interface so I'm not sure that's necessary.

 

 

 

@Phil-M  yeah the wheel should help.  thanks!

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One thing that may make your life a little easier - if you're using a mouse with a scroll wheel, you can use that to turn the knobs up and down when you have the cursor hovering over the knob. I find it's more precise than dragging the mouse back and forth.

 

I've never noticed this. Could be useful. I'll have to try picking up this habit. But you still have to place the mouse over the control.

 

Being able to make keyboard shortcuts would be really useful. Maybe some future products will have this. Can only hope I guiess.

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I second the idea of improving HD Edit. There's a lot that could be done in terms of useability and workflow. Some might say be glad that Line 6 has a program at all and that it's better than nothing.

 

What do you think of the AMPLIFi workflow for future Line 6 products (except on Mac/PC, obviously)?

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What do you think of the AMPLIFi workflow for future Line 6 products (except on Mac/PC, obviously)?

 

I'm not sure because I've never used an AMPLIFI and don't know what it's like at all other than that the remote interface is wireless (tablet)? I personally would find a wireless interface on par or maybe slightly better than a mouse/keyboard.

 

I'm also one of those people (a minority for sure but probably not alone either) that when I'm narrowing in on a tone, I keep at it for a long, long time, trying many if not all combinations of parameters, but never quite being satisfied. A tweaking nightmare. This is where the mouse (and I suspect a tablet interface) becomes a bit annoying. They are too slow and require sight. A simple keyboard only control is quicker in most cases and can be done by feel.

 

Only in this situation does the interface impede. In most other situations, it's fine. I guess it would boil down to how many people are like me and let the tweaking take over. I really should learn to control the tweaking, not the tweaking control me. Better solution.

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I can see it going either way.  I haven't used amplifi either.  It looks pretty slick, and an ipad would be way more portable for a live gig than a laptop if you like using an app to tweak things. (plus you could put it on a stand and have all your tweakablity while playing and not have to squat down to the ground unit).

On the keyboard side of things I do like the thought of being able to have shortcuts.  Like being able to select a parameter and hit up or down arrow to adjust parameters would be really handy.  

I myself am not a huge tweaker though.  I tend to stick with the 3 of the 4 amp models that come with the DT-25 and those suit most of my needs pretty well.  Everything else is just fx tweaks for me.  So my preference?  I could go either way I suppose.  I would almost vote for whatever takes the fewest resources away from line6 so they can continue to develop other things.  Would it be possible to implement the Amplifi app to a mac/pc and give it shortcuts or the ability to set custome shortcuts?  And instead of scrolling with your finger you'd just click with the mouse or click on the effect/amp parm and use up or down arrows to modify etc.. (also don't forget the ability to copy/paste) 



 

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On the keyboard side of things I do like the thought of being able to have shortcuts.  Like being able to select a parameter and hit up or down arrow to adjust parameters would be really handy. 

 

You can use the up and down arrows now with hd edit, but you have to select the control with the mouse first.

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You can use the up and down arrows now with hd edit, but you have to select the control with the mouse first.

 

haha no way.  I swore I tried that.  Maybe I didn't have it selected.  I'll try it again when I get a chance.

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I haven't seen an Amplifi either - sorry Line 6 but without Android support for simple patch editing we just bought my eldest a Roland Micro Cube GX as her first Amp to learn on when I could have persuaded my Wife that the extra cash for an Amplifi was worth it.

 

What I would like to see from a new version of HD Edit would perhaps be something on the lines of M20D interface where X/Y Pads control multiple parameters at the same time - especially around the Amp Deep Editing Parameters.

 

The ability to save, recall, copy and paste specific Object settings would also be very good - for example I finally worked out that to get rid of the muddy bottom end on many Amps the Low End Cut off needs to be raised a lot higher than I had tried before; up to 250 Hz and even higher - previously I had only raised it to around 80 HZ because that seemed logical because I didn't want to cut Bottom E, and I need to Cut Resonance as well to tame the high-end fizz.  Being able to recall a copy of the Amp with this already done would save a lot of time.

 

The biggest improvement of all that doesn't seems as if it should be too difficult would be the ability to split Pre Amp, Power Amp and Cab into separate blocks and then connect them as required for simple Dual Cab and Custom Amp designs

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I'll echo the above two posts about being able to create profiles. Perhaps even multi-level; have profiles for block-level and profiles for patch-level. Also the ability to use (as Rewolf48 suggests) dual cabs without using dual amps. And absolutely no iOS only requirement.

 

Moving farther in the future, the ideal interface would be direct brain to parameter manipulation. :o  This sort of technology already exists. Maybe something to look into?

 

Just kidding.

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