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mikras

Load Box with helix

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Hi,

 

How do I connect the cables If I'm using Two Notes Torpedo Captor load box with my tube amp?

 

Is this corret:

Helix send 1 to amp's input then load box output to helix return 1? Then IR block?

 

 

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2 hours ago, mikras said:

Hi,

 

How do I connect the cables If I'm using Two Notes Torpedo Captor load box with my tube amp?

 

Is this corret:

Helix send 1 to amp's input then load box output to helix return 1? Then IR block?

 

 

 

Edit: As rd2rk points out, any of the outputs on the back would appear to reduce your Helix to moldy cheese. I initially thought the -20dB attenuated speaker output was a simple line out but at second glance that isn't the case. 

 

Based on a quick glance, I think so. I'd use the "Line" (Dry) plug on the front of the loadbox to connect to your Helix. So it'd look like:

 

Helix send 1 to amp input >>> amp output to loadbox input (the one with the red circle) >>> Line (Dry) out to Helix return 1. 

 

 

 

 

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You definitely DO NOT want to connect either of the outputs on the back of the Torpedo to the Helix. That would cause all of the magic smoke to escape from your Helix, reducing it to a very expensive door stop! The connectors on the BACK of the Torpedo are for Speakers ONLY! SEE MANUAL!

 

Be handy to know what kind of amp you're using. Does it have an effects loop?

 

If your amp does NOT have an effects loop, you're limited to using your Helix as an effects board in front of the amp. You would take the Helix Left/Mono out (Instrument Level) to the Amp's Input.

 

If your amp has an effects loop, then take the Helix FX Loop Send (Instrument Level) to the amp's Input, the amp's FX Send to the Helix FX Loop Return, and the Helix Left/Mono Out (Line Level) to the amp's FX Return. The FX Loop Block goes between the effects you want in front of your amp (like distortion/OD) and the effects you want in the loop (like delay/reverb). By setting any Helix Preamps and the FX Loop Block to one footswitch (save with one ON one OFF), you can then toggle between your amp's preamp and the Helix preamps.

 

REPEAT: 

The connectors on the BACK of the Torpedo are for Speakers ONLY!

 

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7 minutes ago, Kilrahi said:

Helix send 1 to amp input >>> amp output to loadbox input (the one with the red circle) >>> Line (Dry) out to Helix return 1.

 

If I'm reading the Torpedo manual right, the Line Out (DRY) is the fully attenuated post poweramp signal with no speaker emulation. The XLR next to it is the same signal WITH speaker emulation. So that wouldn't work as a loop.

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26 minutes ago, rd2rk said:

 

If I'm reading the Torpedo manual right, the Line Out (DRY) is the fully attenuated post poweramp signal with no speaker emulation. The XLR next to it is the same signal WITH speaker emulation. So that wouldn't work as a loop.

 

It just sort of depends on what he's trying to do. To be honest, I wasn't entirely certain the loadbox he's using makes for the best FX loop in the first place.

 

Nevertheless, the manual indicated this is the best option for an FX processor, and I'd tend to agree.  The question then becomes what do you amplify it with?

 

Edit: Also, as you pointed out above, it would appear to be the ONLY option (well, or the XLR out) unless he wants to reduce his Helix to a smoking cinder. 

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6 minutes ago, Kilrahi said:

Nevertheless, the manual indicated this is the best option for an FX processor, and I'd tend to agree.  The question then becomes what do you amplify it with?

 

The manual is a bit confusing. The function of the Captor is as an end of signal chain device, not a loop. It's main purpose is to allow for attenuating the amp's power amp out signal, either for low volume use or silent recording. The LINE Out is for recording, so you can use whatever IR you want and Post Amp processing in your DAW. The XLR with speaker emulation is a FOH convenience. The Captor's big brother stores IRs so that you get a choice of what speaker emulation goes to FOH. He COULD put a loop AFTER the poweramp signal between the Captor and FOH/DAW, but that wouldn't get those effects into the guitar amp.

 

So, yeah, without an FX loop in the amp, the Captor is not an optimal solution with Helix.

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31 minutes ago, Kilrahi said:

 

Edit: Also, as you pointed out above, it would appear to be the ONLY option (well, or the XLR out) unless he wants to reduce his Helix to a smoking cinder. 

 

I've gotta wonder how many multi FX boards have been smoked by Torpedo Captors......maybe they should be called Torpedo Raptors?

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Here is how I do it so I have effects before and after the amp. I have guitar in > Helix > FX > Loop 1 out of Helix > Front of Amp > LoadBox line out > Loop 1 back to Helix > FX, etc > XLR to FOH.

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2 minutes ago, bshaw92 said:

Here is how I do it so I have effects before and after the amp. I have guitar in > Helix > FX > Loop 1 out of Helix > Front of Amp > LoadBox line out > Loop 1 back to Helix > FX, etc > XLR to FOH.

 

As I noted above, that doesn't get the signal back to the guitar amp:

 

Helix>FX Loop1 Send>Amp Input>Power Amp>LoadBox>Line Out>Helix FX Loop1 Return>XLR>FOH

                                                                                                                                                               >Helix 1/4  Out> no place on the guitar amp to come back to!

 

Plus, he'd be feeding the attenuated power amp signal back through the power amp - that wouldn't sound too good, and might (probably) would cause a feedback loop!

 

HMMMM, here's a thought....in the above scenario, if he sent the 1/4" out to a powered monitor next to his guitar amp, he'd have a kind of wet/dry configuration?

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25 minutes ago, bshaw92 said:

Here is how I do it so I have effects before and after the amp. I have guitar in > Helix > FX > Loop 1 out of Helix > Front of Amp > LoadBox line out > Loop 1 back to Helix > FX, etc > XLR to FOH.

 

Yeah, exactly, that was my rec too.

 

Without knowing his goal on amplification, it's hard to know if this solution works for the OP. They could still plug the cab into the load box, it just won't have post amp effects.

 

It could function as a dry signal, as was mentioned above for a wet/dry/wet rig.

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Thanks for replys. Sorry for my unclear message at the beginning. I have mesa single rectifier with modified fx loop to serial. And my intend is using BALANCED line out to fx return. Purpose is for silent recording and use the IRs I have loaded in to Helix.

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1 minute ago, mikras said:

And my intend is using BALANCED line out to fx return.

 

Well, you're S.O.L.

The 1/4"  Outs/sends/returns are unbalanced. I could be wrong, but I don't think so. See page 7 of the manual.

So, you simply use the 4cm:

 

Guitar->Helix Guitar IN->Effects->FX Loop1 Block->FX Loop1 Send->Amp Input->Amp FX Loop Send->Helix FX Loop1 Return->Effects->1/4" Left/Mono->Amp FX Loop Return.

By setting any Helix Preamps and the FX Loop Block to one footswitch (save with one ON one OFF), you can then toggle between your amp's preamp and the Helix preamps.

 

Amp Speaker Out to Torpedo Speaker IN (RED NUT). Torpedo Speaker Out (attenuated) OR Thru to cab.

Torpedo Line Out to DAW.

Torpedo XLR to FOH.

 

As mentioned several times above, DO NOT CONNECT ANY OF THE BACK PANEL TORPEDO SPEAKER OUTS TO THE HELIX!!!!

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It's funny how one little detail can completely change everything. All this time, I assumed the amp didn't have an effects loop. 

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Do you think is there any differnce about the sound if I'm using 4CM (effects loop) or the method you are using? Thinking about the amp's raw sound coming to Helix before thr IR..

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12 hours ago, mikras said:

Do you think is there any differnce about the sound if I'm using 4CM (effects loop) or the method you are using? Thinking about the amp's raw sound coming to Helix before thr IR..

 

If you have an effects loop then the four cable method is definitely the way you want to go. It allows you to have the effects before the pre-amp that you'd like (often distortion, compressor, etc.) and the effects after the pre-amp (time based effects usually). It'll sound great. 

 

If you still want to use your Line out to record you can, and best of all it will sound really awesome.  The four cable approach is definitely the way to go.  The signal chain is pretty easy too. Simply place the effects you want before the pre-amp, then add and activate an FX send/return block, and then place the effects that you want after the pre-amp. Your IR would likely go just after the FX send/return block. Done. 

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On 4/29/2019 at 10:48 PM, rd2rk said:

You definitely DO NOT want to connect either of the outputs on the back of the Torpedo to the Helix. That would cause all of the magic smoke to escape from your Helix, reducing it to a very expensive door stop! The connectors on the BACK of the Torpedo are for Speakers ONLY! SEE MANUAL!

(...)

REPEAT: 

The connectors on the BACK of the Torpedo are for Speakers ONLY!

 

To clarify you definetly can't cause any magic smoke to escape from your Helix because Hx Input impedance is too high to draw current. All you can do is to damage your tube power amp. -20dB attenuated speaker output can work just fine as additional line output.

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6 hours ago, zolko60 said:

To clarify you definetly can't cause any magic smoke to escape from your Helix because Hx Input impedance is too high to draw current. All you can do is to damage your tube power amp. -20dB attenuated speaker output can work just fine as additional line output.

 

Well dang, you killed the image.


Good info though. I did wonder if the -20 dB would work. 

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6 hours ago, zolko60 said:

To clarify you definetly can't cause any magic smoke to escape from your Helix because Hx Input impedance is too high to draw current. All you can do is to damage your tube power amp. -20dB attenuated speaker output can work just fine as additional line output.

 

Maybe so, BUT.....there are TWO speaker OUTS. One is attenuated, the other isn't. I choose to err on the side of NOT having OP accidentally use the wrong one, especially when it doesn't do anything to resolve his problem.

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I did have best recording result: helix send1-->amp input-->amp out to Capture input (red)--> Capture's balanced dry signal to Helix return1-->XLR out. 

 

Guitar-OD(fxloop2)-Noisegate-amp(fxloop1)-delay-IR-->

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