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Verne-Bunsen

MixIR is really awesome....

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Hi all,

 

I'm not affiliated in any way with Redwirez, and while I have bought some of their IRs over the years I tend to prefer Ownhammer and 3 Sigma stuff for my purposes. Which is just to say that I don't have any ulterior motives for singing the praises of MixIR, the Redwirez IR loader and editor. I'll cut to the chase, then I'll tell my story: it acts as an IR loader allowing you to stack multiple IRs in parallel in your DAW of choice, like many other programs out there do, but the kicker is that it allows you to then export the resulting compound IR as a single .wav file that you can then load into Helix. Maybe others do this, but it was the only option I found without actually going through the process of generating the IR myself. Very slick.

 

Here's how I came to seek out such a thing. To get the sounds I'm looking for, I tend to like running two cab IRs, generally a 1x12 and a 2x12, in parallel. Summed to mono, that has worked great for me for some time. Recently I've been running in stereo and I found that hard panning a 1x12 and a 2x12 hard left and hard right created sounds that were so dissimilar as to be almost disorienting. In a bad way. It sounded better if I panned them more gently, but then the image created by stereo delays and reverbs and modulations was diminished. So in order to maintain hard panning for the stereo image without the unpleasant effect of two dissimilar cabinets, I took to just using a single cabinet with different mic mixes for left and right. This sounded good, but I missed the sounds that I was used to from mixing the cabs. So, enter MixIR. Using MixIR in Logic Pro X, I combined my 1x12 and 2x12 cabinets into a single IR, allowing me to have both cabinets together in one channel. To get some separation, I did some experimenting and landed on a couple of "recipes" to make left subtly distinct from right. For Ownhammer IRs I used the OH1 mix of the 1x12 and the OH2 mix of the 2x12 for "Left" and the OH2 mix of the 1x12 and the OH1 mix of the 2x12 for "Right". For 3 Sigma IRs, I used the 3b mix of the 1x12 and the 5b mix of the 2x12 for "Left" and the 5b mix of the 1x12 and the 3b mix of the 2x12 for "Right". This gave enough difference to provide some separation between the channels even without other stereo effects, but it is no so drastic as to be disorienting. Win! 

 

Anyhow, that's my thoughts on MixIR. Hope it provides some food for thought for somebody!

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That's great MixIR2 works for you. I found it too be too complicated for me. What is parallel, what serial,  what controls do was not inuitive enough and produced unpredictable results.  Either I have bad habits or I am dumb. This is why I dropped it several years ago and started to use simpler IR loaders.
I tried to read the manual but there are whole sections I can not understand.  Maybe you can help me: Where can I find any information about saving IR mix to IR?
https://www.redwirez.com/mixIR2UsersGuide.pdf

"Part of the reason we gave you so many options is because we wanted you to feel like you’re sitting in the control room with an assistant in the live room moving the mic around the cabinet. If you’ve ever mic’ed up a real speaker cabinet, you will likely be perfectly comfortable with the number of choices we offer. But, if you usually leave that stuff up to the sound guy, then you may be feeling a bit overwhelmed."
Oh really? Each "sound guy" I know (live or studio) is able to mic guitar cab with one or two mics with great results - same rule for "IR micing". More than two mics  induces so much comb filtering and other phase/eq phenomenons so anybody claims he knows what he is doing is some kind of sound shaman for me. ;)

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3 hours ago, zolko60 said:

That's great MixIR2 works for you. I found it too be too complicated for me. What is parallel, what serial,  what controls do was not inuitive enough and produced unpredictable results.  Either I have bad habits or I am dumb. This is why I dropped it several years ago and started to use simpler IR loaders.
I tried to read the manual but there are whole sections I can not understand.  Maybe you can help me: Where can I find any information about saving IR mix to IR?
https://www.redwirez.com/mixIR2UsersGuide.pdf

"Part of the reason we gave you so many options is because we wanted you to feel like you’re sitting in the control room with an assistant in the live room moving the mic around the cabinet. If you’ve ever mic’ed up a real speaker cabinet, you will likely be perfectly comfortable with the number of choices we offer. But, if you usually leave that stuff up to the sound guy, then you may be feeling a bit overwhelmed."
Oh really? Each "sound guy" I know (live or studio) is able to mic guitar cab with one or two mics with great results - same rule for "IR micing". More than two mics  induces so much comb filtering and other phase/eq phenomenons so anybody claims he knows what he is doing is some kind of sound shaman for me. ;)

Hi Zolko,

 

I'll try to provide what help I can. Regarding series and parallel, in this application it refers to how the audio is being routed through the blocks. A series routing means that the processed audio (output) from one block is then being fed into the input of the next block. So for instance, generally speaking, your Helix cab or IR block would be in series with your amp block (the output of the amp block feeding the input of the cab/IR). Parallel means that both blocks receive the same input and process them independently. So if you split your signal and have a different IR on each path, then those blocks are in parallel.

 

I can't really speak to how intuitive the program is as an actual IR loader as I haven't used it in that context. Helix hosts my IRs and I don't use an IR loader in my DAW for that purpose. I've only used MixIR for its ability to export a compound IR. I'll walk through the process I use.

 

When you load an instance of MixIR in your DAW, it looks like this:

MixIR%201.png?raw=1

 

This screen shows the IRs that are in its folder on the right, and you can drag them in what ever combination you like into the slots that read "--empty--" in the middle. I dragged mine into the first two slots under "IR Block 1". Once you have the desired combination dragged into place, clicking the "Options" button in the lower right switches to this display:

 

MixIR%202.png?raw=1

 

Clicking the "Export" button brings up the save dialog where you can name the file and indicate where you want it saved, and that is all there is to it.

 

As far as the predictability of the results, I haven't performed a phase cancellation comparison or anything but I have A/B'd the compound IR against the two IRs loaded in parallel and they are indistinguishable to my ears.

 

Regarding the description that it is like having somebody moving mics around for you, I think it is referring as much to the Redwirez IR offerings as to the program. They have IR captures of all of their mics in every conceivable position, so using their catalog you can get mics figuratively where ever you want them. If you want one moved back an inch, there is an IR of that mic moved back an inch.

 

I agree with you as far as diminishing returns when adding mics. When I was initially playing with this I found that some combinations created unpleasant phase/filtering issues.  I found that by limiting it to one IR of each cab per side and sticking to the Ownhammer OH1/OH2 mixes and the 3 Sigma 3b/5b mixes kept things clean.

 

I hope some of this helps!

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Here's a freeware program that seems to do similar stuff, though it doesn't have the pretty interface or all the features of the Redwirez one. Still, if (like me) you're not sure if making Custom IRs is a good path for you, you might want to try it out.

 

https://github.com/ValdemarOrn/IRWorkshop

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I hadn't seen that one, it does look like a great program. And it exports!

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On 5/12/2019 at 9:03 AM, jester700 said:

Here's a freeware program that seems to do similar stuff, though it doesn't have the pretty interface or all the features of the Redwirez one. Still, if (like me) you're not sure if making Custom IRs is a good path for you, you might want to try it out.

 

https://github.com/ValdemarOrn/IRWorkshop

 

Thanks for this. Works great. I had been using 2 IR's at lower res. I mixed the same into one and using it at higher res 2048. Works out great and easy to use.

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Sorry, I'm 'new' at this idea....

 

Does this mean that I can take my 2 IR's that I use a split path for, and combine them into one IR that I can then use in my Helix to save space/split paths/cpu power? 

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Yes. Or more IR's and combine into one. When you take the two (or more) into one you can use a single IR slot with higher res.

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32 minutes ago, themetallikid said:

Sorry, I'm 'new' at this idea....

 

Does this mean that I can take my 2 IR's that I use a split path for, and combine them into one IR that I can then use in my Helix to save space/split paths/cpu power? 

It’s kind of like each rabbit hole just leads to more rabbit holes....

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3 minutes ago, VB_in_AZ said:

It’s kind of like each rabbit hole just leads to more rabbit holes....

aint this the beautifully destructive truth

 

But I love it.  I don't mind the details or details revealing details....as long as it leads to something more efficient.  I don't see mixing IR's as a tone enhancing thing as I'm happy with my tones, but the ability to save blocks and not have to 'burn' a split path just to use 2 IRs is awesome.  Eliminates my need for them to create a stereo IR block (for now)....

...until they do and Mix 2 IR's to use in stereo, lol. 

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On 5/11/2019 at 7:28 PM, Verne-Bunsen said:

Hi Zolko,

 

I'll try to provide what help I can.

(...)
I hope some of this helps!

A little... ;)
 I still can not figure out eg: 
- what the sliders under the block icon do. 0% leaves the dry signal only. 1-100% I can hear no difference. Does this control make sense only with blocks mixing?
- what mix parameter in IR block do. If I have IR1 set at 50% and IR2 set at 50% , how it differs from 100/100%?
- Why can't I hear any volume difference only block "balance" when I mix blocks?

Maybe MixIR2 is just different because it creates and normalizes stereo IR on the fly? This is the only reason I can imagine for such awkward controls not responding in real time.

To mix IRs no special software but DAW is needed.
For a normal DAW work free NadIR is just perfect.
BTW: I have just made a test Pete Thorn proposed using MixIR2 handy truncation on the fly and I noticed what I am loosing using 20,40ms (1024,2048) loaders instead of 200,500ms 
 


 

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3 hours ago, zolko60 said:

Maybe MixIR2 is just different because it creates and normalizes stereo IR on the fly? This is the only reason I can imagine for such awkward controls not responding in real time.

OK. It seems to be the case. I loaded the whole bunch of 500ms IRs. Reaper CPU load plugin indicator was 0.7% with one 20ms IR and stayed at 0.7% with multiple and longer IRs.
MixIR is just one 8s stereo FIR convolution plugin with engine to mix component FIR files. Smart! 

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ok, I dont have the $$ right now to spend on an IR loader for the few IR's I wanna try this with.  

 

Anyone have any decent free apps to recommend or willing to combine the ones I want for me?  

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I’m traveling for work or else I’d be happy to do it for you. If you are still looking in a couple of weeks check back in and I’ll do it.

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8 hours ago, themetallikid said:

ok, I dont have the $$ right now to spend on an IR loader for the few IR's I wanna try this with.  

 

Anyone have any decent free apps to recommend or willing to combine the ones I want for me?  

 

 

jester700 posted this link in his comment earlier in this discussion. It’s a freebie!

 

https://github.com/ValdemarOrn/IRWorkshop

 

This is what he said about it.

 

On 5/12/2019 at 2:03 PM, jester700 said:

Here's a freeware program that seems to do similar stuff, though it doesn't have the pretty interface or all the features of the Redwirez one. Still, if (like me) you're not sure if making Custom IRs is a good path for you, you might want to try it out.

 

 

EDIT: This is for Windows only!

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I tried using that program and I'm sure its me being stoopud, but it seems beyond my level of comprehension how to load the IR's and everything.  I'm generally not  unable to learn, but the program does way more than I need it to I'm sure and its not very intuitive......

 

 

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1 hour ago, themetallikid said:

I tried using that program and I'm sure its me being stoopud, but it seems beyond my level of comprehension how to load the IR's and everything.  I'm generally not  unable to learn, but the program does way more than I need it to I'm sure and its not very intuitive......

 

 

 

Hi,

 

I don't know if you will find this any easier to use and or understand, but it's free for both Windows and Mac. Just have to register with a name and email address - not a problem.

 

https://lancasteraudio.com/pulse/

 

Hope this helps.

 

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Ok, so I played with both....sorta....in the Valdemar program I can't seem to load my Ownhammer IR's, they are a different filetype and it doesnt recognize them to open....the lancaster one, I can't seem to get the program to load at all....i'm sure I'm just being stupid about it again....

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IR workshop is a program for IR tweaking. You load impluses not with File/Open but in "Impulse" screen by "Open Sample".
Lancaster Audio Pulse is rebranded version of Ignite Amps NadIR. NadIR  v.2.0 is a dual 500ms IR loader. Unlike mixIR which has one 8s stereo engine, it can mix two IR paths , make independent LPF, HPF and resonance adjustments, can not save mixed IR.
All DSP operations of mixIR are convolution based so if you want to make any EQ you have to load IR to serial IR slot.

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