HX Stomp so far not so good

[Mike-GTR]

Hi guys,

 

Been trying to set the stomp up for the last couple of days. Through headphones, monitors, speakers it sounds great but i CANNOT get it to work through my Hod Rod Deluxe. I've read the manual and watched countless videos on 4CM method but i'm obviously doing something wrong.

 

I've set up 4CM as per the manual - added a preamp block, managed to get sound but it was awful - tried changing line/instrument levels but still sounded bad. Also the manual says if you don't set up 4CM correctly you'll get no sound... but this isn't true as i pulled out 1 of the 4 cables and still managed to get sound through the amp. This also leads me to another issue... do you NEED 4 cables?

 

Ive screen shot below a section from the Line 6 stomp vid they did with Andertons tv. They go into the amps return (using preamp sounds from HX stomp) then direct to the FOH (in this case a DAW) simultaneously but don't explain  how its done. This set up is exactly how I want to use my stomp as the HRD is bollocks and i want to use the stomps preamp models for me onstage - then use an amp model/IR going out to the PA.

 

If you look at the screen shot there are only 4 cables being used aside from the TRS out for exp pedal:

 

Guitar - input to stomp

Return out from stomp being sent somewhere

L/R outs going somewhere. 

 

Can anyone decipher  how this is being done? It seems to be a lot simpler than the manual illustrates

 

Thanks, Mike

[amsdenj]

So you want to use your HRD as a stage amp and send another feed to FOH? And you want to use HX stomp preamp models in stead of the HRD preamp? If so, here’s what you would do using the picture above as a guide.

 

Your guitar goes into HX stomp L input. You would put any front of the amp effects in the first few blocks, then a preamp model (not an amp model - you don't want another power amp, and not an amp/cab model - you don’t want a cabinet model here). Then add any after the amp effects you want (e.g., delay, reverb, etc.) This would go to the Main L output, set to Inst level, into the effects return of your HRD. This is your stage amp setting. The HX Stomp Volume will control the volume into the HRD effects return. Make sure to gain stage everything so that when the HX Stomp volume is up pretty high, you’re not getting any distortion from the HRD. All your distortion is coming from HX Stomp, run the HRD as clean as possible.

 

The last thing in your signal path would be a cab model or IR. Move this to path B and set the path B output to Send L/R. Configure Send L/R for Line output and make sure you’re going into a line input on your FOH PA. 

 

This approach will use HX stomp to control all the tone. HRD is your stage amp and is seeing the output of the preamp model, its effectively an external power amp and cab. Path B has the cab model or IR going to FOH. Both the HRD and the cab model should be seeing the same input. 

 

You don’t need 4CM for this setup, and you don’t need to waste a block using a send block.  It should work great if you have all the outputs at the right level and everything gain staged properly. 

[Mike-GTR]

2 hours ago, amsdenj said:

So you want to use your HRD as a stage amp and send another feed to FOH? And you want to use HX stomp preamp models in stead of the HRD preamp? If so, here’s what you would do using the picture above as a guide.

 

Your guitar goes into HX stomp L input. You would put any front of the amp effects in the first few blocks, then a preamp model (not an amp model - you don’t want a cabinet model here). Then add any after the amp effects you want (e.g., delay, reverb, etc.) This would go to the Main L output, set to Inst level, into the effects return of your HRD. This is your stage amp setting. The HX Stomp Volume will control the volume into the HRD effects return. Make sure to gain stage everything so that when the HX Stomp volume is up pretty high, you’re not getting any distortion from the HRD. All your distortion is coming from HX Stomp, run the HRD as clean as possible.

 

The last thing in your signal path would be a cab model or IR. Move this to path B and set the path B output to Send L/R. Configure Send L/R for Line output and make sure you’re going into a line input on your FOH PA. 

 

This approach will use HX stomp to control all the tone. HRD is your stage amp and is seeing the output of the preamp model, its effectively an external power amp and cab. Path B has the cab model or IR going to FOH. Both the HRD and the cab model should be seeing the same input. 

 

You don’t need 4CM for this setup, and you don’t need to waste a block using a send block.  It should work great if you have all the outputs at the right level and everything gain staged properly. 

 

Thanks very much for the reply. Thats exactly what I was looking for. I've got the FOH part sorted but still having problems with the amp.  I just tried that method going into the return of the HRD and kept the patch really simple:

 

Guitar - L input HX stomp (preamp block-reverb block) Main L output-  FX return of HRD. 

 

I went through all of the preamp models and experimented with EQ/gain but didn't dig too deep with the advanced parameters (i.e sag - hum etc).  All of the preamps lacked any sort of character and sounded rather uninspiring - really plain and boring. The louder I turned up the fizzier/buzzier it sounded, was also very harsh and direct. All volume and tone as you said is now coming from the stomp. The HRD's volume and EQ is disabled and I made sure the amps reverb and presence were off. Additionally I also bypassed the stomps global EQ settings. With this in mind my only conclusion is that the speaker cabinet in the HRD is the cause. It is a lollipop cheap one that came stock with the HRDiii

 

Could there be anything else i'm missing?

[amsdenj]

Well, if the HRD sounds OK by itself, then it should sound pretty much the same replacing the HRD preamp with a similar model in HX Stomp. If not, then I’d suspect the main out is not set right to match the HRD return input.

 

[Mike-GTR]

23 hours ago, amsdenj said:

Well, if the HRD sounds OK by itself, then it should sound pretty much the same replacing the HRD preamp with a similar model in HX Stomp. If not, then I’d suspect the main out is not set right to match the HRD return input.

 

 

I've spent a few hours on this again today and I think its the HRD colouring the sound. After a bit of tweaking I can get the preamps to sound half decent but overall the 1x12 cab doesn't sound great, especially with higher gain settings. The whole thing sounds harsh

 

Ive found a thread on Helix preamps through power amps (fx return) and there was a quote with similar results to mine:

 

"I had the same experience with the Helix preamp model levels widely varying from preamp to preamp.  I too played with Helix pre's with a Mesa 2:90 and Recto 212 for a while.  I even used an RJM Amp Gizmo to switch Deep, Half Drive, and Modern on the 2:90.  I liked Modern the best for most Helix pre's.  But I found the 2:90 had way too much character that was diminishing the difference between Helix preamps.  I even bought a used Line 6 DT50 thinking that would be better.  That rig was just harsh and noisy to me. 

 

IMO, the preamp models were frustrating to tweak and level out on both the 2:90 and DT50, and there was just too much lost from the Helix full amp models.  I moved back to Helix full amp models + neutral/flat tube power amp + 212 cab" 

 

It seems as though a "clean" power amp is the way to go. I might just be better getting a Powercab or FRFR monitor

[amsdenj]

I love my Powercab, thinking of getting another.

 

[spikey]

I Have 2, their AWESOME!