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2/3 Of The Way There - Need Advice


Charlie_Watt
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OK I now have 2/3 of the Dream Rig.  JTV69S and HD500X.  I play at home both acoustic sounds and classic rock stuff.  I am trying to decide what to get for a full range output device that will sound good with Acoustic guitars and Electrics.  I do not play out now so I do not need to fill a hall just a room.  I think I want a powered PA speaker but I have no experience with any.  My amp collection is all tube amps that I have built over the years and none are full range.  The only amp I have with me now is a Tweed Deluxe which sounds great for some stuff but not with acoustic guitar.  Any recommendations for a decent powered full range speaker?  I also am considering studio monitors but I am afraid that they are too directional for my needs.  The rig sounds great through my good quality headphones but I don't want to play wearing headphones all the time.  Let's hear some ideas!

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There are plenty of full range powered speakers out there. You can spend a little or a huge amount, depending on whether you go for budget or top end. Many people on these forums have raved about the stagesource speakers, so if your budget allows I would suggest you try the L2m which is the cheapest and smallest of the Line6 options. If you want something cheaper, then try the Behringer B210d or B212d. There are plenty of other options as well.

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...

The last advice that they gave me was 6 inch over the 5 inch because of the cabinet size which did sound different to me because both were available for try out. Also, the freq response of the 6 inch is really good which would enable to play with the bass and get great sound....

I strongly agree. I went with 5" studio monitors and regretted it; I wouldn't go less than 6" again. I had to repair one of the 5" monitors after blowing it with some bass guitar.

 

I still use the 5" studio monitors for home studio work but no longer as performance monitors, even for practice.

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Since you're not considering the line 6 speakers, my advice is to get a Keyboard amp. What many don't realize is that all keyboard amps are designed to be FRFR (their level of success at that is no different than those who market their powered speakers as FRFR). They're usually very rugged and very hard to blow the large speakers if you go with anything with .10' to 15" (and tweeters).  The beauty of this setup is: it's  a portable PA, you can have Electric guitar, drums, bass, acoustic , vocals etc. They're also expandable if you should ever need to expand;  If the amp has stereo link than you can get another one and it will be true stereo. Anything from Roland usually will last you a life time. 

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Keyboard Amp v PA Speaker:

 

It looks like a backline amp rather than a PA speaker.  

 

It may have better EQ options: some PA Speakers have none expecting to be done at the mixer - except that direct from HD 500 there is no global EQ, others with a built-in mixer may be better and the L2t has some very smart stuff on it so it can be in simulated guitar amp mode (limits tweater) for electric or switched by HD500 patch to full range for acoustic.

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A lot of people use the QSC monitors. Anyone considering the QSC should look at the L2m/L2t. I finally completed the dream rig with a L2t and I am in love. Using the JTV -69 and HD500, I can play an unbelievably accurate 12 string acoustic playing into a rotary speaker(Hotel California), then switch to a screaming solo.

 

If you believe in FRFR you have to take a look at the L2 series.

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Keep in mind when you're looking at specs to compare the power rating as this is where most manufacturers aren't upfront about the power capabilities of the their amps. Most important is RMS (amp) / or continuous which corresponds with continuous power rating of the speaker so if you know either one the other is the the same. Peak is usually 4 times that. Most manufacturers list peak power :rolleyes: ;  so try guessing what line 6 rating for the L2 listed at 800 watts is, is it  Peak or RMS?  Ok you guessed right it's 800 Peak which means it's in the neighborhood of 200 Watts RMS. I would confirm that with line 6 because it can still be lower or slightly higher, they did the testing and they should know.

 

Peak power is used by some manufacturers in an attempt to "look better" in print and has very little bearing on the actual performance of an amplifier if any. 

So be prepared to look at the user manuals before you make a purchase if you want to make an informed decision. It's a pain in the lollipop I know, but I do it because some manufacturers always try to be cute and they don't realize how annoying it is when they're not telling the truth. 

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Not surprising.  How many 10 inch speakers do you know of that can take 800W RMS??  (OK the tweeter takes some of the power too) 

I do not need huge volume for my application.   I want very good acoustic sound - which I cannot get from my small tube amp with single 12 inch speaker.  My music room is not that big.  Any powered PA speaker will have plenty of power for my needs.  So would a set of studio monitors but I am worried about the narrow field with these.  I want to be able to play 6 feet or so away from the speaker(s).

   I am still undecided and I plan to take my time on this decision since I can make music with what I have in the mean time.

 

Thanks for the advice so far!

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For home use I've been using a pair of  Yamaha HS50m. No issue with near field or losing the sweet spot when playing guitar at all. The music room isn't that big and playing 6 feet away from the speakers they still sound good. I originally set them up for mixing at an angle toward the ears making an equilateral triangle. I thought I would have to change the positioning to play at 6 feet away or any other spot in the room but was never an issue. What I like most about them is that they are very transparent and they virtually have no added coloration or sweetness to the bass or high frequencies. Some might find them harsh but if that's the case they have adjustments to low, mid and highs to roll off either of these frequencies.

 

They can be very loud. At 50 percent is the loudest that I keep them. Their power rating is 70 Dynamic Power, yet another term that i believe is unique to Yamaha on how they interpret it. In short it's alsoan  exaggerated measure in comparison with RMS. Two of them make 140 watts of dynamic power, I figure even if RMS is half of that , that's loud enough.  The reason I went with Yamaha over Rootkit, is that Rootkit exaggerates the bass siginficantly, I was looking for accurate verses sweet. I'm quite happy with them. I listen to various music on them and it's amazing how many major albums sound harsh and poorly mixed, but the ones that are mixed properly sound stunning with amazing details; you can almost visualize the performers in the room with you. O Well,  Yamaha owns line 6 now, so it feels better recommending a Yamaha product on  line 6 forum than another company, but that has been my honest experience and they came with three years warranty on labor and parts.

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I think I am leaning toward getting a set of monitors for my application.  I can get two for the price of one good PA speaker and have stereo.  I will give it some more thought before I decide what to do.  Meanwhile I am still experimenting with the Pod using my headphones for full range sound and my amp as well.  I don't really like playing with headphones on for very long though.

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I am going to try an experiment with my home Stereo to see how that sounds.  I have to get some 1/4 to RCA adapters to try it.  If it sounds anywhere near as good as my headphones that may do the trick for my home playing at least in the short term.  I am still torn between Monitors and a Powered PA speaker for a purchase.

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Update:  I decided to go for the EV ZLX-12P for my powered full range speaker.  I got it Saturday.  The Acoustic sound is killer!  I need to play with a bunch of things to dial in the sounds I want but I really like what I am hearing with my JTV 69S.  I used the XLR for the connection but I am thinking that I should probably connect both the Left and Right XLR.  I know that plugging a 1/4 inch into the 1/4 outs gets Mono both channels but I don't think that happens with the XLR outputs.  I know I could mod the patches to pan everything one way but I think I can accomplish the same thing by plugging in two XLR cables since the speaker has two XLR inputs.  Anybody have any opinions on this?  For now I am really having fun figuring out how to tweak my patches to sound the way I want them.

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