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manix1979

Helix Firmware 2.80

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13 hours ago, craiganderton said:

Ultimately, gear is relatively unimportant. All that matters is the emotional impact of our music, which has little to do with gear.

More in the digital era where most of the music is rehashed. If you think ACDC would have built their legacy on Mesa Boogie amplifiers just the same way they did using marshalls, i would have to disagree with that.  

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5 hours ago, willjrock said:

More in the digital era where most of the music is rehashed. If you think ACDC would have built their legacy on Mesa Boogie amplifiers just the same way they did using marshalls, i would have to disagree with that.  

 

I partly disagree as well.... the best gear makes you not the best player. If you have a good gear (e.g. Helix) you can get a very good sound or let‘s say „your“ sound without buying amps, cabs, effects.  

Play around with settings, watching youtube tutorials brings you a big step further. 

 

Edit: What if the amp quits working? 

With a good helix setlist you can plug it direct into the PA ;-) 

I do it always this way. An IR of my cabinet and the same patches as with amp. It‘s not the same sound but close ;-)

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21 hours ago, litesnsirens said:

Maybe in the future Line 6 should just tell us nothing about impending firmware updates, then there’s no criticism on release dates or lack of communication.  How can you complain about lack of communication regarding an update that you don’t even know exists.  

 

All you need is a time machine to take you back about 5 years or so, and that's just about how it was here then. No Thanks, I just had a bar of soap. I would rather have it like it is now, where we get tidbits of info (thanks go mostly to D.I. on this- even if I had to go to elsewhere to find some of it) on what is going to be huge once released. They are damned either way, and educated guess on the release to me is better than no information at all.

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1 hour ago, manix1979 said:

the best gear makes you not the best player.

 

OTOH, a better guitar with it setup right will promote playing longer with less hand fatigue and soreness. Now playing more with better gear never makes you the best, but it does make you better.

 

Like the Reverend Billy F Gibbons said...

 

Lightnin' Hopkins taught us, "the rubber on a wheel is faster than the rubber on a heel" and Muddy Waters taught us "you don't have to be the best one; just be a good 'un" .. that just about says it all, always strive to be a good 'un.

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A

On 6/29/2019 at 4:52 AM, AgingOrange said:

Not just that, though, that feeling of entitlement. Where the heck does that come from?

 

At this point, where doesn't it come from? The participation trophy generation was raised with the steadfast belief that merely existing is in itself, praise-worthy. The universe owes them for breathing...and unless every need, want, and desire is delivered yesterday, exceeding their wildest expectations, and on somebody else's dime, it's an "injustice"... and someone must pay. They're all professional victims.

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Posted (edited)
On 6/30/2019 at 3:03 AM, willjrock said:

More in the digital era where most of the music is rehashed. If you think ACDC would have built their legacy on Mesa Boogie amplifiers just the same way they did using marshalls, i would have to disagree with that.  

 

I disagree.

Edited by litesnsirens
Don’t want to offend.
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I think the real question here is: will 2.8 be out before the new Tool album? 

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2 hours ago, Verne-Bunsen said:

I think the real question here is: will 2.8 be out before the new Tool album? 

 

Ouch.

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5 hours ago, litesnsirens said:

I have no doubt that if Malcolm and Angus only had access to Mesa Boogie amps, they could have dialed in a tone they like, written and recorded all their songs and sold just as many records as they did with the Marshalls.   I mean heck, didn't they prove that when they were forced to change their lead vocal sound?

 


Yes, that's where I'm coming from. AC/DC's total sound was about more than amps. Gear can certainly contribute to sound, and facilitate the musicianship. But if Jimi Hendrix had played "Little Wing" on an Epiphone acoustic guitar, I think it would still have been just as beautiful and compelling. 

 

Think of it this way: if the emotional impact of music was dependent on gear, cover versions done by different people using different gear would be irrelevant. I'm not saying gear is unimportant, just setting priorities by saying that emotional impact "has little to do with gear."

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1 hour ago, craiganderton said:

 


Yes, that's where I'm coming from. AC/DC's total sound was about more than amps. Gear can certainly contribute to sound, and facilitate the musicianship. But if Jimi Hendrix had played "Little Wing" on an Epiphone acoustic guitar, I think it would still have been just as beautiful and compelling. 

 

Think of it this way: if the emotional impact of music was dependent on gear, cover versions done by different people using different gear would be irrelevant. I'm not saying gear is unimportant, just setting priorities by saying that emotional impact "has little to do with gear."

AC/DC did not even have Marshalls in the beginning.  Malcom's Rhythm sound was well established in some of the sessions he played on before AC/DC using Aussie made amps, and us Kiwis sometimes celebrate that Angus used a New Zealand built amp (Holden VBL) for a while in the early days. 
Point? Its not about the amp (or the guitar) that you use.  Its the way you choose to use it and how you play.

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Wait. Jimi Hendrix played "Little Wing" on an Epiphone acoustic guitar? It sounds really good. I just found a good used one on E-bay so just ordered.

 

Excited!!!!

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1 hour ago, soundog said:

Wait. Jimi Hendrix played "Little Wing" on an Epiphone acoustic guitar? It sounds really good. I just found a good used one on E-bay so just ordered.

 

Excited!!!!

 

I sure am!!!!

 

O51x4M3.png?v=1541192132

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1 hour ago, lawrence_Arps said:

 Point? Its not about the amp (or the guitar) that you use.  Its the way you choose to use it and how you play.

 

I've heard this kind of thing a lot and I get it but why are there so many different kinds of amps? Why are there so many different boutique amps. Why does Joe Bonamassa have several amps on stage. Because different amps sound different. Sure if Malcom played through a Gibson EH-185 he would have sounded like himself BUT he would not have sounded the same as when he played through his own gear. And why did he move away from his original amps? Could it be because he found an amp that...wait for it...sounded different and dare I say it, better than his original amp? If the "It's not about the amp" statement were true, that wouldn't have happened. And if the amp doesn't make a difference, why are there so many amp modelers? Why do people even bother getting an amp modeler? Since it isn't about the amp, why don't people spend the money they would be saving on the amp models and spend that money on an effects only unit like the HX Effects unit or something from TC Electronics. After all, it's not about the amp. Or is it? Why did Eddie use the Variac? I know why he started to use one but he kept using it because he liked the sound. Using the "it's not about the amp" theory he could have used any amp with no Variac. It's a great theory and there is something to it, but how an amp sounds is why people choose different amps.

 

It's not totally about the amp. Of course. But the amp and the guitar are your foundation. The notes you choose and technique unique to you, are the beautiful building you build upon it. At the very least, it's more about the amp than that statement implies.

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18 minutes ago, brue58ski said:

It's not totally about the amp. Of course. But the amp and the guitar are your foundation.

 

Exactly. They are the tools of our musical trade.  If they don't feel right and sound right, we know the difference immediately.  Aunt bunny can't really tell if you are playing a worn out broken down feeling guitar, but you can or at least you should be able to. I get that everyone's pocketbook is different so we play what we can afford. I sure do. That said, It matters if they are of good quality or not (notice I didn't say expensive but they can be) while playing,  because as Brueski said they are the foundation of our sound and soul, no matter how good you are. 

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2 hours ago, spikey said:

 

Exactly. They are the tools of our musical trade.  If they don't feel right and sound right, we know the difference immediately.  Aunt bunny can't really tell if you are playing a worn out broken down feeling guitar, but you can or at least you should be able to. I get that everyone's pocketbook is different so we play what we can afford. I sure do. That said, It matters if they are of good quality or not (notice I didn't say expensive but they can be) while playing,  because as Brueski said they are the foundation of our sound and soul, no matter how good you are. 

 

 

I think there's a balance, but the point is still true that almost any song played good can sound good on any reasonable rig.

 

That doesn't mean that certain tweaks won't take it from good to legendary.

 

If we're pretending to be scientific, I'd say 80% skill, 20% gear.

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11 hours ago, Verne-Bunsen said:

I think the real question here is: will 2.8 be out before the new Tool album? 

I heard its being released in timing with Chinese Democracy II, thus breaking records for the most expensive firmware release date ever

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46 minutes ago, Kilrahi said:

I think there's a balance, but the point is still true that almost any song played good can sound good on any reasonable rig.

 

Just like tone, what's reasonable to some is mediocre for others. ; ) And 80-20 isn't very balanced lol.

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Recently, just before Dave Gilmour auctioned his guitars he did an interview about it on the TV. The interviewer asked "So if someone buys one of your guitars will they sound like you?", Dave replies "No".

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2 hours ago, bobthedog said:

Recently, just before Dave Gilmour auctioned his guitars he did an interview about it on the TV. The interviewer asked "So if someone buys one of your guitars will they sound like you?", Dave replies "No".

 

The correct answer is "Yes they will, if they use a helix with the 2.8 firmware update!"

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2 hours ago, bobthedog said:

Recently, just before Dave Gilmour auctioned his guitars he did an interview about it on the TV. The interviewer asked "So if someone buys one of your guitars will they sound like you?", Dave replies "No".

 

He hasn't heard me. ;)

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On 6/29/2019 at 1:02 PM, Digital_Igloo said:

Also, I have been working on an exhaustive Knowledge Base manual for the new 2.80 stuff. We're considering pushing it live once it's done, even if 2.80 isn't quite ready. If people actually read it, we'll probably keep doing that for every point release. It's a lot easier than copying/pasting release notes onto a dozen forums (and then having to fix any mistakes in every one)...

 

This sounds like a really helpful tool.  I can mostly find what I'm looking for by doing some internet searching but a central resource would be incredibly faster and easier.  When you put this out, where can we find it?  I find the existing manuals for the HX Effects and the HX Edit software to be really useful (a little out of date on the HX Effects manual but pretty much has everything I need in it) but having something more thorough and up-to-date would be awesome.  I also read something somewhere that you might include a KOT model. It will be nice to not have to loop my real pedal in, and have to change the batteries between performances (it is a pain with that pedal) so I'm looking forward to the update and hoping I didn't get some bad info.  That KOT is pretty much always on for me.

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6 hours ago, talonmm said:

 

The correct answer is "Yes they will, if they use a helix with the 2.8 firmware update!"

 

Well, unless you are David Gilmour, the answer will be NO!

What you will sound like is someone who bought a Helix installed 2.8 and thinks he sounds just like David Gilmour

 

Poor deluded fool - only David Gilmour sounds like him because that's who he is and even if you paid $3,300,000 for the Black Strat, you still wont sound like him, because you're not him!

 

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23 minutes ago, datacommando said:

 

Well, unless you are David Gilmour, the answer will be NO!

What you will sound like is someone who bought a Helix installed 2.8 and thinks he sounds just like David Gilmour

 

Poor deluded fool - only David Gilmour sounds like him because that's who he is and even if you paid $3,300,000 for the Black Strat, you still wont sound like him, because you're not him!

 

 

Oh boy, someone's a little grumpy.....  Have you ever seen a tribute band or a really good guitarist?  Besides, my post was done tongue in cheek - please relax.....

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7 hours ago, talonmm said:

 

The correct answer is "Yes they will, if they use a helix with the 2.8 firmware update!"

 

You like to copy someone‘s sound? „I like to sound like someone but I can’t play like him“ It‘s a live task that will never end. The same on guitar playing or finding „your“ sound. Develop you own style with the techniques of the big ones ;-)

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37 minutes ago, talonmm said:

 

Oh boy, someone's a little grumpy.....  Have you ever seen a tribute band or a really good guitarist?  Besides, my post was done tongue in cheek - please relax.....

 

Oh, dear, someone missed my sarcastic remark about a rich bastid paying over $3 mil for a trophy. He’s the “poor deluded fool”. That’s who I was really aiming for - not you. Maybe he will donate it to a player in a tribute band, instead of hanging it on the wall. Excuse me while I pull my tongue out of my cheek. It’s time for my meds and I need to have the injection to stop me getting cranky.

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7 minutes ago, datacommando said:

 

Oh, dear, someone missed my sarcastic remark about a rich bastid paying over $3 mil for a trophy. He’s the “poor deluded fool”. That’s who I was really aiming for - not you. Maybe he will donate it to a player in a tribute band, instead of hanging it on the wall. Excuse me while I pull my tongue out of my cheek. It’s time for my meds and I need to have the injection to stop me getting cranky.

 

Where is that blasted tongue-in-cheek emoji?

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1 hour ago, manix1979 said:

 

You like to copy someone‘s sound? „I like to sound like someone but I can’t play like him“ It‘s a live task that will never end. The same on guitar playing or finding „your“ sound. Develop you own style with the techniques of the big ones ;-)

 

BUT...if I'm playing  Comfortably Numb,  it's so iconic that yes, I do want to sound and play just like him. That would be why I shoot for that in that situation. I have my own style and sounds but I don't want to use those when I play a Pink Floyd song.

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1 hour ago, datacommando said:

 

Oh, dear, someone missed my sarcastic remark about a rich bastid paying over $3 mil for a trophy. He’s the “poor deluded fool”. That’s who I was really aiming for - not you. Maybe he will donate it to a player in a tribute band, instead of hanging it on the wall. Excuse me while I pull my tongue out of my cheek. It’s time for my meds and I need to have the injection to stop me getting cranky.

 

OK, I am sorry, I misunderstood.  I thought you were calling guitar players who try to emulate others "the fools".  it's all good.  Thanks for the clarification and for editing your original post.

 

While we are on this topic, I just want to say, that the Helix, and the contributors on custom tone at this website are amazing.  And sometimes I swear, I sound just like the recordings I hear.  I know we can debate amps in the room, and what the original recordings sounded like, but when I fire up my helix, and play Van Halen or Led Zep songs I achieve those incredible tones!   I am not disillusioned - I'm no Jimmy Page or Eddie, but the sound and tone are there and that's thrilling!

 

And I've played out in bands at bars and have been complimented on my tones and how quickly I can switch them up (thanks to the Helix and the tones I've downloaded and modified for my needs). 

 

So, yes I will never sound exactly like Eddie, or Jimmy (or Jimi H.) but others will, and thanks to this technology, I'm closer than I ever dreamed I'd be.

 

Now where the heck is the 2.8 update?????

 

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12 minutes ago, brue58ski said:

 

BUT...if I'm playing  Comfortably Numb,  it's so iconic that yes, I do want to sound and play just like him. That would be why I shoot for that in that situation. I have my own style and sounds but I don't want to use those when I play a Pink Floyd song.

 

Ok that‘s then some kind of tribute I guess. 

Well you have a good work to do (or allready did) to sound like David. All the nuances of his playing... oh man...

Great musicians those who are still alive and those who sadly died. It‘s not „my“ music but who cares? The masterminds behind the music are amazing!!

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5 minutes ago, talonmm said:

Now where the heck is the 2.8 update?????

 

 

I gave up asking... we have to accept, that the programmers just have no time or/and are not allowed to give a little info. As DI wrote it‘s much of code to rewrite for the new core. The missing PR makes it surely not easier. Info is given volunteerly. ;-)

I guess the more we asking, the later it will come. IF this is a reason I have to say sorry because my mouth was way too wide open. 

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28 minutes ago, manix1979 said:

......

I guess the more we asking, the later it will come. IF this is a reason I have to say sorry because my mouth was way too wide open. 

 

Actually, anything we say here has absolutely zero impact on the timing of the release. It will be released when Line 6 considers it ready for release - not an hour sooner or later - whether or not any threads like this exist. So we can all keep our mouths opened or closed. Doesn't matter in the least.

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1 hour ago, brue58ski said:

 

BUT...if I'm playing  Comfortably Numb,  it's so iconic that yes, I do want to sound and play just like him. That would be why I shoot for that in that situation. I have my own style and sounds but I don't want to use those when I play a Pink Floyd song.

 

Somewhere, there is a thread identical to this one only arguing over whether the Carpenters would have sounded the same had they used a Hammond instead of a Wurlitzer.

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Seems like the biggest trick is writing an iconic song and being in the right place at the right time. I know a lot of phenomenal guitarists who can convincingly play some of the most complex material ever written but writing a song that can sell millions of copies and being lucky enough to get the breaks, promotion and production, have the right look, have a cousin who works at Warner Brothers or plays for Metallica, catch the imagination of the public, etc.; that is the part that nobody has figured out how to put in a device yet. When they do I will be the first to buy it. Its one thing to play like Hendrix, its quite another to be able to pen "Voodoo Chile" or "Little Wing".

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1 hour ago, rzumwalt said:

Somewhere, there is a thread identical to this one only arguing over whether the Carpenters would have sounded the same had they used a Hammond instead of a Wurlitzer.

 

Yes, there is but "We've only just begun"....

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1 hour ago, silverhead said:

 

Actually, anything we say here has absolutely zero impact on the timing of the release. It will be released when Line 6 considers it ready for release - not an hour sooner or later - whether or not any threads like this exist. So we can all keep our mouths opened or closed. Doesn't matter in the least.

 

Then why you keep telling me to shutup? ; P

 

nvm, forget I asked.... hehehehe...

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2 hours ago, silverhead said:

 

Actually, anything we say here has absolutely zero impact on the timing of the release. It will be released when Line 6 considers it ready for release - not an hour sooner or later - whether or not any threads like this exist. So we can all keep our mouths opened or closed. Doesn't matter in the least.

 

I disagree.  If I were them I would say, "it's ready for release, but f all y'alls and your whiney 6itchfest.  You get it next week now.  Maybe.  Maybe not.  Way I see it, that depends on you."

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I would never tell you to shut up, spikey! I enjoy your particular style of drivel ;-). But you’ll never get a tuner in the editor.....

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Just now, silverhead said:

I would never tell you to shut up, spikey! I enjoy your particular style of drivel ;-). But you’ll never get a tuner in the editor.....

 

Damn! I thought that Line 6 were going to invite Spikey to Summer NAMM so he could unveil the tuner in the Editor! That’s why there is a delay in releasing 2.8

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I think they meant next spring release not this spring :(

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7 hours ago, HonestOpinion said:

Seems like the biggest trick is writing an iconic song and being in the right place at the right time. I know a lot of phenomenal guitarists who can convincingly play some of the most complex material ever written but writing a song that can sell millions of copies...Its one thing to play like Hendrix, its quite another to be able to pen "Voodoo Chile" or "Little Wing".

 

That's because mechanical task execution and creativity really have nothing to do with each other... I'd argue that they're almost mutually exclusive. It's a very short list of players who are both technically proficient and capable of writing a decent tune. Most seem to blessed with way more of one than the other.

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